[overcoil]

I just kind of take a deep breath and understand accidents happen...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...mepage%2Fstory

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

I just kind of take a deep breath and understand accidents happen...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...mepage%2Fstory

Young kid with a high performance car... not hard to imagine trouble could ensue.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Young kid with a high performance car... not hard to imagine trouble could ensue.

I'm curious as to the speed of the M235. But barring any really excessive speed, it seems like the M235 had the right of way (going straight).

[midlifecrisis]

Sounds like the other car turned into his path. This might not be his fault, although the article mentions that drivers frequently speed down the hill toward the intersection.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by midlifecrisis

Sounds like the other car turned into his path. This might not be his fault, although the article mentions that drivers frequently speed down the hill toward the intersection.

Oh I'm not saying it was his fault - just meant I'd be very wary of giving an inexperienced driver a car like an M235. Knew a guy who had an M5 freshman year in college and it was just a BAD idea all around. If Lewis Hamilton can wreck his road car any of us can, but when do kids even get their licenses these days 17 or 18? Not what I'd have my kid driving, but that's just me.

[xantdieselx]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Oh I'm not saying it was his fault - just meant I'd be very wary of giving an inexperienced driver a car like an M235. Knew a guy who had an M5 freshman year in college and it was just a BAD idea all around. If Lewis Hamilton can wreck his road car any of us can, but when do kids even get their licenses these days 17 or 18? Not what I'd have my kid driving, but that's just me.

As someone mentioned the article stated the other driver turned left and was hit. The would give the M235i right of way regardless of speed unless there was a control present.

It's tragic the people lost their lives but I don't see how the driver's age plays anywhere in this scenario. The 2 series is a very safe vehicle and I'm sure played a part in the drivers survival.

[midlifecrisis]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Oh I'm not saying it was his fault - just meant I'd be very wary of giving an inexperienced driver a car like an M235. Knew a guy who had an M5 freshman year in college and it was just a BAD idea all around. If Lewis Hamilton can wreck his road car any of us can, but when do kids even get their licenses these days 17 or 18? Not what I'd have my kid driving, but that's just me.

When my kids started driving, I had a mantra that described the cars they drove..... Old, low, and slow.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by midlifecrisis

When my kids started driving, I had a mantra that described the cars they drove..... Old, low, and slow.

Completely understand the sentiment, but when I would answer parents' letters, asking about the "safest car", from the Safety Office at the car company where I worked, our advice was slow, tall, heavy, and new.

Slow: Less likely to get in trouble, show off
Tall: Raise the kid's head above the level of the incoming"bullet" vehicle's front end he/she put themself in front of by mistake.
Heavy: Mass wins
New: Most safety technology, air bags, traction control, etc.

I got my kids either small engine minivans or utility vehicles, realizing I was lucky to have access to employee lease programs to provide the newest safety technology.

[StarMan]

Some pictures of the accident

http://wjla.com/news/local/three-kil...sh-in-maryland

[midlifecrisis]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Completely understand the sentiment, but when I would answer parents' letters, asking about the "safest car", from the Safety Office at the car company where I worked, our advice was slow, tall, heavy, and new.

Slow: Less likely to get in trouble, show off
Tall: Raise the kid's head above the level of the incoming"bullet" vehicle's front end he/she put themself in front of by mistake.
Heavy: Mass wins
New: Most safety technology, air bags, traction control, etc.

I got my kids either small engine minivans or utility vehicles, realizing I was lucky to have access to employee lease programs to provide the newest safety technology.

Don't like the "tall" part at all. High CG is not the way to go. Too much danger of rollover. Maybe new ones with advanced stability control are OK, but most parents aren't going to spring for a new and expensive car for the kids.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by midlifecrisis

Don't like the "tall" part at all. High CG is not the way to go. Too much danger of rollover. Maybe new ones with advanced stability control are OK, but most parents aren't going to spring for a new and expensive car for the kids.

Most rollovers occur when the vehicle is "tripped" in a lateral skid by a curb or roadside object. With modern chassis technology, skids have been significantly reduced and the overall proportion of vehicle track to height has long since been well understood to reduce rollovers further. Taking a kid's head out of the incoming path of a striking vehicle is a positive risk/benefit assessment even if one were to roll against side airbags with extended up times.

You are correct about most parents not buying new vehicles, but we were being contacted by those who were and wanted advice.

[aerostar]

Doesn't look like the M235i could have been going THAT fast. The damage doesn't look too severe to the BMW's front end. Can't see the other car, but it looks like he t-boned the car which is the absolute worst place to be hit for occupants of the t-boned vehicle.

Hopefully it isn't a case of speeding like the overturned M235i we saw earlier.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by xantdieselx

As someone mentioned the article stated the other driver turned left and was hit. The would give the M235i right of way regardless of speed unless there was a control present.

It's tragic the people lost their lives but I don't see how the driver's age plays anywhere in this scenario. The 2 series is a very safe vehicle and I'm sure played a part in the drivers survival.

Sure, but those familiar with the road may know that there was a dangerous spot there and driven extra slow/carefully and that sort of thing comes with experience. Will have to see how fast the kid was driving, same thing could have happened if he was in a Neon. My point was not about this specific incident or driver in general. Just that it's a LOT of car for someone with limited experience to handle, in general, that's all. Hell the kid in question could have been on a track racing carts since he was barely old enough to walk and be the next Schumacher, but in most cases it's unnecessarily asking for trouble. Not unlike that little girl who shot her instructor with an AK. If you want to teach your kids gun safety have at it, but do so with something other than a fully automatic assault rifle. My only point was that an M235 seems like an awful lot of car for a kid to be driving. Hell I've been driving 10x longer than The kid at this point and I know the car could get me in trouble if I'm not careful.

[Sir Thomas Bombadil]

This is really sad.

This comment basically sums up my frustrations with BMW's naming conventions now:

"I suggested the same thing earlier myself and got my head handed to me by some internet know-it-alls. This kid has a ton of moving violations already in his young life....and he is driving a $50k high performance M class BMW? This story will get more tragic the more we learn i'm afraid[.]"

[MikeT]

Originally Posted by Sir Thomas Bombadil

This comment basically sums up my frustrations with BMW's naming conventions now:

Well, the general public doesn't really get into the sort of 'M' hairsplitting that we do here. It's easy to forget that a stock M235i outperforms the Ferraris of 25-30 years ago. I think that the point is that it wasn't the right car for 20-year-old with a bad driving record. And it wasn't. Tragic story.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by MikeT

Well, the general public doesn't really get into the sort of 'M' hairsplitting that we do here. It's easy to forget that a stock M235i outperforms the Ferraris of 25-30 years ago. I think that the point is that it wasn't the right car for 20-year-old with a bad driving record. And it wasn't. Tragic story.

Not even 20 years ago, much more recent than that in fact. Driving dynamics aside just pure speed 0-60 the M235, M2, upcoming RS3 etc are all right there with even some more recent super cars.

[aerostar]

Originally Posted by MikeT

Well, the general public doesn't really get into the sort of 'M' hairsplitting that we do here. It's easy to forget that a stock M235i outperforms the Ferraris of 25-30 years ago. I think that the point is that it wasn't the right car for 20-year-old with a bad driving record. And it wasn't. Tragic story.

We don't know this.

The last update I read stated that he was going the speed limit and the car made a left turn in front of him.

Was a tragic accident it seems.

Also, no charges were filed, which is a pretty big hint as to whose fault it really was.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Sure, but those familiar with the road may know that there was a dangerous spot there and driven extra slow/carefully and that sort of thing comes with experience. Will have to see how fast the kid was driving, same thing could have happened if he was in a Neon. My point was not about this specific incident or driver in general. Just that it's a LOT of car for someone with limited experience to handle, in general, that's all. Hell the kid in question could have been on a track racing carts since he was barely old enough to walk and be the next Schumacher, but in most cases it's unnecessarily asking for trouble. Not unlike that little girl who shot her instructor with an AK. If you want to teach your kids gun safety have at it, but do so with something other than a fully automatic assault rifle. My only point was that an M235 seems like an awful lot of car for a kid to be driving. Hell I've been driving 10x longer than The kid at this point and I know the car could get me in trouble if I'm not careful.

I take it that you don't own a firearm or know much about them.

If you did some research, you would have known it wasn't an "automatic assault rifle". It was an Uzi which fires a pistol caliber projectile.

An "automatic assault rifle" would have actually been far more controllable than an Uzi in the same situation.

[MikeT]

Originally Posted by aerostar

We don't know this.

The last update I read stated that he was going the speed limit and the car made a left turn in front of him.

Was a tragic accident it seems.

Also, no charges were filed, which is a pretty big hint as to whose fault it really was.

Didn't say it was the m235i driver's fault. That's to be determined

But it just isn't the right car for any 20-year-old with a problematic driving history. I mentioned Ferraris of 25-30 years ago because this story reminded me of a guy I went to high school with. He used to drive his dad's Ferrari, a 308 gts IIRC. A lot of us were pretty impressed... wow, a high school kid driving a Ferrari, right? And yet when he crashed it, no one was really surprised. It like, of course he crashed it, a high school kid driving a Ferrari... what were they thinking?! And yet truth is that a late '80s Ferrari is, by any performance metric, a slouch compared to a '16 m235i.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by MikeT

Didn't say it was the m235i driver's fault. That's to be determined

But it just isn't the right car for any 20-year-old with a problematic driving history. I mentioned Ferraris of 25-30 years ago because this story reminded me of a guy I went to high school with. He used to drive his dad's Ferrari, a 308 gts IIRC. A lot of us were pretty impressed... wow, a high school kid driving a Ferrari, right? And yet when he crashed it, no one was really surprised. It like, of course he crashed it, a high school kid driving a Ferrari... what were they thinking?! And yet truth is that a late '80s Ferrari is, by any performance metric, a slouch compared to a '16 m235i.

My friend had a race spec M3 for his first car. Never hurt anyone but got a ticket for doing 165 in a 65. Kids do stupid shit! When I got a ticket in my mother's Passat doing 85 in a 65 dad's response was "didn't know the car could go that fast, guess you won't be driving that one anymore."

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Kids do stupid shit!

And, it's predictable and explainable. For all sorts of reasons, justifiable or otherwise, we allow people below 25 with inherently not-yet-developed brains to drive cars. The periodic sad outcomes will always be with us.

http://nautil.us/issue/15/turbulence...frontal-cortex

[Le frog]

I think the highway authority are clearly the ones to blame for this tragic accident. Why the hell the need for fatalities in order to install a damn traffic light? especially when a 500 signature petition had been submitted?
I am sorry, but whatever the circumstance, it was an accident waiting to happen, and it is even more painful when it wipes out an entire family.
Let it be a lesson to the local and state government, when they put money ahead of safety.