Are the DCT's on the F80/F82 supposed to be clunky?

[23Boolin]

I'm coming from a 2014 Audi S5 with a DCT. The DCT on my Audi was not as quick shifting as the M4, but it was so much smoother downshifting during normal driving, basically felt like a regular automatic.

I'm noticing very clunky downshifts at low RPMs on the M4, especially 3rd to 2nd and 2nd to 1st when slowing down, coming to a stop.

Even in the lowest shift speed setting on the DCT, it is really clunky almost every time when coming to a stop.


Is that normal for these transmissions?

[spidy512]

Yep.

The conditions you stated are when its most clunky. When giving it the beans the tranny is magical (IMO), and for the most part around town it is pretty smooth. But the VAG DCT's tend to be a bit more comfy and not nearly as clunky.

I have a 19 R, and the DCT is better around town. But once you get going, the F80 DCT blows it away. I guess the way I see it is the M3 basically comes with a sporty, racy style DCT that has some "features" that remind you daily what its purpose is.

I guess I considered it as part of the entry fee to ownning a race ready street car.

With that said, I coded my tranny and that made it MUCH more livable. The 14/15 cars were known to be a bit of a hot rod when introduced. The subsequent years the coding mellowed the car out, and the tranny coding did help smooth out the downshifts. It may be worth looking into.

Either way, I hope this helps.

josh

[M3SQRD]

It’s effectively a manual transmission (no torque converter) so you drive it like a manual. I have never used D (direct drive/auto) mode on my three DCT cars (two e92 M3 and f82). 100% of the time I’m in S (sequential/manual) mode (80% S3, 20% S2, 0% S1) with engine in sport+ and have zero “clunky” downshifts; instead, I get perfectly-rev-blipped downshifts. I also have the gts DCT software (f82 and e92 gts’s) which is superior to the stock DCT software. I have zero complaints of any of my DCT cars and I don’t notice a difference in performance of the DCT going between e92 to f82 to e92 except for one e92 has a 3.62 FD diff, the other is a stock 3.15 diff.

It’s people like this that got the DCT cancelled for the g8x. Too many people bought a DCT equipped car thinking it would work/act like an actual automatic transmission when it’s in fact not an automatic transmission. BMW DCT tuning is performance oriented, not smooth shift/low-NVH-quality-while-cruising-along-in-D1 tuning. Consequently, BMW gave in, killed the DCT (best trans BMW has offered), and switched to a true ZF8AT in the g8x which is one of the main reasons why I haven’t purchased a g82.

[23Boolin]

Originally Posted by spidy512

Yep.

The conditions you stated are when its most clunky. When giving it the beans the tranny is magical (IMO), and for the most part around town it is pretty smooth. But the VAG DCT's tend to be a bit more comfy and not nearly as clunky.

I have a 19 R, and the DCT is better around town. But once you get going, the F80 DCT blows it away. I guess the way I see it is the M3 basically comes with a sporty, racy style DCT that has some "features" that remind you daily what its purpose is.

I guess I considered it as part of the entry fee to ownning a race ready street car.

With that said, I coded my tranny and that made it MUCH more livable. The 14/15 cars were known to be a bit of a hot rod when introduced. The subsequent years the coding mellowed the car out, and the tranny coding did help smooth out the downshifts. It may be worth looking into.

Either way, I hope this helps.

josh

Mine is an 18, so not sure how much they improved it from earlier years lol.
But this info does help, thanks for chiming in. Just wanted to make sure I didn't have a potential issue with my transmission. Especially since my only point of comparison was the DCT in my Audi, which was way smoother than this one.

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

It’s effectively a manual transmission (no torque converter) so you drive it like a manual. I have never used D (direct drive/auto) mode on my three DCT cars (two e92 M3 and f82). 100% of the time I’m in S (sequential/manual) mode (80% S3, 20% S2, 0% S1) with engine in sport+ and have zero “clunky” downshifts; instead, I get perfectly-rev-blipped downshifts. I also have the gts DCT software (f82 and e92 gts’s) which is superior to the stock DCT software. I have zero complaints of any of my DCT cars and I don’t notice a difference in performance of the DCT going between e92 to f82 to e92 except for one e92 has a 3.62 FD diff, the other is a stock 3.15 diff.

It’s people like this that got the DCT cancelled for the g8x. Too many people bought a DCT equipped car thinking it would work/act like an actual automatic transmission when it’s in fact not an automatic transmission. BMW DCT tuning is performance oriented, not smooth shift/low-NVH-quality-while-causing-along-in-D1 tuning. Consequently, BMW gave in, killed the DCT (best trans BMW has offered), and switched to a true ZF8AT in the g8x which is one of the main reasons why I haven’t purchased a g82.

Thanks for the info. I think I am going to look into that GTS software as well.

Regarding the bolded part of your comment above - I wasn't complaining about it. I have another car for my daily, so I am happy with the M being more performance oriented rather than prioritizing comfort.

I was asking because I had some transmission codes after going into limp mode, and the shop I took it to said it was probably because tune file installed by the prior owner was corrupted ( stage 2 ECU tune, not any trans tunes). They reflashed it and said it should be good now.
I just got the car back and have been paying extra attention to the transmission behavior and really noticed the clunkiness. So I was really just looking to see whether it was normal or if it may be indicative of a trans issue.

[jaylazy2020]

How many miles have you got? The box is supposed to be a sealed unit but most agree a dct filters and oil change is worth getting at around 60k miles.

I’m getting mine done as it is a bit clunky at low revs in 2nd and 3rd.

[M3SQRD]

23Boolin

I don’t recall reading about stored codes? Resetting adaptations is a good option after stored codes.

GTS (or CS) DCT tuning makes a huge difference. Shift speeds are slightly increased over stock (quicker shifts), holding torque is increased, torque kick is a bit more aggressive, and auto downshifts while coming to a stop is improved. In addition to the GTS DCT flash, you should also get the GTS coding for EPS, e-diff, DSC/MDM as well as CS EDC, if you have EDC (works best with ZCP dampers but still works for base too). CS EDC greatly increases ride quality and damping performance on street and track.

Unfortunately, there were way too many people that purchased the f8x DCT thinking it was like any other automatic. When the realize it’s not close to being like any other automatic, they immediately take it to a BMW dealer and complain their trans is damaged/not working properly. Dealer finds nothing wrong and may/may not have updated software and/or reset adaptations. My brother-in-law has been a BMW tech for 30+ years and he said DCT customers were constantly complaining from 2015 to 2020 that their “automatic” transmission is “broken”. I honestly believe BMW got tired of dealing with all of these customer warranty claims that they said it’s time to axe the DCT and give the customers what they want - a ZF8AT. It appears to have worked well for BMW considering the number of g8xC and g8xCX owners there are and the higher demand for g80C and g80CX. However, it’s not for me.

[23Boolin]

Originally Posted by jaylazy2020

How many miles have you got? The box is supposed to be a sealed unit but most agree a dct filters and oil change is worth getting at around 60k miles.

I’m getting mine done as it is a bit clunky at low revs in 2nd and 3rd.

Currently at 46k miles. Couple different shops told me different things... A couple said that no DCT service is needed per BMW, but the shop that just reflashed my car said it is good to do at some point.

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

23Boolin

I don’t recall reading about stored codes? Resetting adaptations is a good option after stored codes.

GTS (or CS) DCT tuning makes a huge difference. Shift speeds are slightly increased over stock (quicker shifts), holding torque is increased, torque kick is a bit more aggressive, and auto downshifts while coming to a stop is improved. In addition to the GTS DCT flash, you should also get the GTS coding for EPS, e-diff, DSC/MDM as well as CS EDC, if you have EDC (works best with ZCP dampers but still works for base too). CS EDC greatly increases ride quality and damping performance on street and track.

Unfortunately, there were way too many people that purchased the f8x DCT thinking it was like any other automatic. When the realize it’s not close to being like any other automatic, they immediately take it to a BMW dealer and complain their trans is damaged/not working properly. Dealer finds nothing wrong and may/may not have updated software and/or reset adaptations. My brother-in-law has been a BMW tech for 30+ years and he said DCT customers were constantly complaining from 2015 to 2020 that their “automatic” transmission is “broken”. I honestly believe BMW got tired of dealing with all of these customer warranty claims that they said it’s time to axe the DCT and give the customers what they want - a ZF8AT. It appears to have worked well for BMW considering the number of g8xC and g8xCX owners there are and the higher demand for g80C and g80CX. However, it’s not for me.

I probably should have mentioned the codes in the original post.
The car went into limp mode on 2 occasions.

The first time was the night I bought the car. I was on the highway in auto mode. Switched to manual mode and downshifted to 4th, and the rpm was around 4k. As soon as I touched the throttle, I felt a bang and the car went into limp mode and gave a drivetrain malfunction error message. Pulled over turned off the car. Upon turning it back on, the drivetrain error was still there and the transmission was in neutral and refused to go into drive.
Turned it off for 5 minutes and tried again and the error message was gone and I was able to drive like normal.

It happened a second time a couple weeks later. No drivetrain malfunction this time, just limp mode after downshifting and starting to apply throttle. It was fine immediately after turning it off and on.

Since the shop reflashed the car, it hasn't happened again but I'm not convinced that the issue is resolved yet.

Honestly I wouldn't have been concerned about the rough shifts if not for the above issues. But if there really were a bunch of other owners taking their cars to the dealer complaining about broken transmissions as you said , then it sounds like maybe the rough shifting I noticed is normal and unrelated (hopefully).

I'll wait to see if the reflash that the shop did has resolved the issue, and then do the GTS tune afterwards.

You mentioned "resetting adaptations" - is that the same as reflashing the tune, or is that a different procedure?

[spidy512]

M3SQRD nailed it.

When I got my F80, coming from a M240ix, I was super confused. It took me almost 4 months to figure out the tranny. But once I did, yikes. Best tranny I have ever had.
It is truly a manual tranny without the pedal. Once I learned to drive as such, my experience in the car was complete. To that point I was worried I had gone the wrong direction...

OP, a tune will still help your 18. I still have issues with kangarooing, but tuning to GTS tranny made the car much easier to daily when I needed to.

Now, the banging noise when downshifting is odd. And sort of worrisome. I would def keep an eye out as the driveline on these cafrs is expensive.

What did the shop "flash" for you? A engine/tranny tune? And if so, was it off the shelf stage tune or a custom tune? Did they scan for error codes? Because if the car went into limp mode twice, there should be codes...

josh

[M3SQRD]

23Boolin

Have you had your diff bushing checked? The banging could be due to failed diff bushing and/or a problem with the e-diff.

It’s a separate procedure in ISTA but, as part of the software update, it likely would clear the adaptations but I’m not certain it does.

Try driving the car exclusively in S3 for a two week period and see how it performs compared to whatever D mode you typically use (I’d also recommend trying D3, if you’re not already using it). Definitely use the downshift paddles as you’re coming to a stop and select the next lower gear at 2500-3000 rpm except for 1st. My car doesn’t select 1st until I’m fully stopped; however, I’ve heard other people say 1st is selected around ~5 mph. If yours selects 1st before stopping, try to preemptively select 1st between 5-10 mph but you’ll get some bucking. However , does it eliminate the clunking noise you get in D mode when coming to a stop? I think you’ll find it much more enjoyable and engaging, similar to a MT without a clutch pedal. The DCT is a phenomenal trans and I still can’t believe the current gen M3/M4 has a true automatic with a torque converter. Never thought that would happen.

[imperfectluck]

An XHP tune on this DCT made the shifting experience for me more sublime. In stock form it certainly is good, running XHP stage 3 has allowed me to really appreciate more the crisp feeling of the gearbox.

The bucking can sometimes be present in S3 if you’re trying to ease into the throttle in 1st gear, the tune just compliments the drama of the DCT even more.

[23Boolin]

Originally Posted by spidy512

M3SQRD nailed it.

When I got my F80, coming from a M240ix, I was super confused. It took me almost 4 months to figure out the tranny. But once I did, yikes. Best tranny I have ever had.
It is truly a manual tranny without the pedal. Once I learned to drive as such, my experience in the car was complete. To that point I was worried I had gone the wrong direction...

OP, a tune will still help your 18. I still have issues with kangarooing, but tuning to GTS tranny made the car much easier to daily when I needed to.

Now, the banging noise when downshifting is odd. And sort of worrisome. I would def keep an eye out as the driveline on these cafrs is expensive.

What did the shop "flash" for you? A engine/tranny tune? And if so, was it off the shelf stage tune or a custom tune? Did they scan for error codes? Because if the car went into limp mode twice, there should be codes...

josh

The bang noise didn't happen while shifting, but it happened when I started applying throttle after the downshift was done, and it immediately went into limp mode.

The car has a Vivid Racing stage 2 tune installed by the previous owner.
The theory was that the tune file was possibly corrupted, possibly because the prior owner didn't have the battery hooked up to a charger while flashing.
So they did a fresh flash of the same tune and suggested I drive it a few hundred miles to see if it happens again and hope it's not an actual transmission issue.

It hasn't happened again yet, but I also haven't pushed it too much since getting it back.

They didn't tell me the specific codes, just said it was transmission related codes (I also did not ask for them specifically). They said diagnosing the codes is difficult because there isn't much documentation on the specific trans codes, since BMW usually just replaced the entire thing when there is an issue...

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

23Boolin

Have you had your diff bushing checked? The banging could be due to failed diff bushing and/or a problem with the e-diff.

It’s a separate procedure in ISTA but, as part of the software update, it likely would clear the adaptations but I’m not certain it does.

Try driving the car exclusively in S3 for a two week period and see how it performs compared to whatever D mode you typically use (I’d also recommend trying D3, if you’re not already using it). Definitely use the downshift paddles as you’re coming to a stop and select the next lower gear at 2500-3000 rpm except for 1st. My car doesn’t select 1st until I’m fully stopped; however, I’ve heard other people say 1st is selected around ~5 mph. If yours selects 1st before stopping, try to preemptively select 1st between 5-10 mph but you’ll get some bucking. However , does it eliminate the clunking noise you get in D mode when coming to a stop? I think you’ll find it much more enjoyable and engaging, similar to a MT without a clutch pedal. The DCT is a phenomenal trans and I still can’t believe the current gen M3/M4 has a true automatic with a torque converter. Never thought that would happen.

I haven't had the diff bushing checked, but will take that into consideration as well.

Thanks for the details on the procedure. I will give this a try.

[Monkibouy]

I'm late to the party but I can definitely 2nd the GTS (or better yet, XHP) DCT programming. Higher clamping forces, smoother/crisper shifts, and programmability/customizing in the case of XHP, though you can also just go with their pre-programmed stages if you're so inclined. The rear diff bushing is a weak point but that's typically just on early F8X builds - they later moved to a poly-based rear diff bushing that should be more robust but I would def recommend checking yours just in case. It is a bit involving to replace - if you do have to get in there, I'd recommend replacing all the bushings with suitable poly to really nail down the rear end.

I can also speak to the DSG comparison, having had a few MK7s in the garage over the years (both stock and with tuned ECU/TCU). When running XHP, it's very nearly as smooth as the VW DSG in D but is much more responsive. Start caning it, and it feels as if it's in its own element whereas the DSG feels can stumble a bit and is nowhere near as responsive when trying shift manually. On the manual vs auto spectrum, the DCT heavily leans manual whereas the DSG is far more like an automatic. If I had to personify them, DSG would be an introvert and the DCT an extrovert.