[Revartr]

As some of you may remember from my first thread here, I was originally undecided between the M235i or the 435i, along with RWD and xDrive. After enough looking around and getting feedback and opinions from members here, I was pretty dead set on a M235i and RWD. Well, I finally got the opportuninty to take some test drives this weekend at BMW's Un4gettable Test Drive Event at my dealer up in Knoxville. Easily one of the best Saturdays I've had in awhile. Free smoked-on-site barbecue, burgers, lemonade, and sweet tea, along with getting to test drive a few pretty awesome cars. Really opened my eyes, so to speak.

This dealer doesn't have a M235i on the lot. However, they did have a 228i with all of the M and performance packages/options, and they let me take it out for a drive through some mountain backroads and on the freeway. First of all, this thing kicked up a lot quicker than I expected. Still not as quick (speed-wise) as I would like, but impressive, nonetheless. It looked a little bit smaller on the outside than I expected, and it wasn't exactly as pretty as I had hoped. While it definitely had more interior room than my Z does, I wasn't exactly impressed with how tight it felt on the inside as well. Not bad, by any means. But a little smaller than I was hoping. I had it in Sport + mode the entire time, and driving it on the backroads, it seemed to have more body roll than I had hoped (something that I'm sure would be different with the M235i). Definitely not a bad car, but I was a little disappointed, to say the least.

Afterwards, I wanted to at least drive something with xDrive to see if it was as bad as I had heard. Took a 335i with xDrive out for a drive in both Sport + mode on the mountain back roads and Comfort mode on the freeway. To my surprise (after hearing all about how much it takes away from the driving experience), it was nowhere near as bad as I had expected. Still a VERY fun car to drive in the twisties, but seemed a little difficult to control at times (understandable, coming from only RWD experience). However, I did feel like I didn't have to work as hard in the corners and that the car sort of pulled and pushed itself through without worrying about the rear end kicking out. I was pretty impressed, but I still believe I'll be going with RWD.

Now, I had to at least take a 435i for a spin, seeing as how it was what I was originally looking at even before the M235i. They gave me one in Alpine White, with a bunch of M performance options added on (exhaust, carbon fiber bits and pieces, brakes, etc.). And well...all I can say is WOW. This thing fit like a glove. I was thoroughly impressed, in literally every aspect. I thought I'd see how she puckered up on the freeway (little to no traffic at the time), so I put her in Sport + mode and kicked in the throttle, and holy shit she picks up HARD. Took her up to 140 from an 80 roll in no time. And on the twisties? Less body roll than the 228i with the performance options. Pretty solid/tight suspension too (much to my liking, closer in similarity to my Z). Quick throttle in and damn good/hard/smooth braking. It honestly didn't look or feel like a big, luggy car, like I had been thinking. Not to mention, the interior was noticably better, and it was much roomier. It did feel a little wide on the road, but nothing overbearing. To be honest, it's actually made my decision a good bit harder now, since I'm going back to looking at this, as well as the M235i.

When I got down to numbers with the sales manager, I was told that if I wanted a M235i built to my specifications, he would be able to get an allocation to build around October, but I wouldn't see the car until the end of December. Something I wasn't too thrilled about, but not a deal breaker, by any means. But this would also mean that the $1,000 Un4gettable incentive wouldn't apply. But he would also be able to throw in ANY of the M performance parts (carbon fiber bits, wheels, BBK, interior bits, etc.) and incorporate them into the lease. However, he also had a couple of M235i's from other dealers that he could get ahold of, but there would be a couple of things here and there that it might not have that I wanted. He also made me aware that he could get me a 435i built to have whatever I wanted on it, including any of the M performance stuff (factory tune, BBK, wheels, carbon fiber bits, etc.), and I would have it by October (what I was originally shooting for). I'll have to make a decision sometime this week, so it's something that I'll have to think on pretty hard. I haven't had the chance to drive a M235i yet, but I may head to a dealership a few hours away to do just that on Saturday before pulling the trigger one way or the other. On other thing I'm surprisingly looking into now is a M4, considering a fully loaded 435i with all of the performance options I'm wanting is up around the M4 price terriroty. So it's something I'll be thinking on.

It was definitely an eye-opening experience all in all, and I'm very happy that I had the chance to take these cars out for a good drive.

[hyperzulu]

Drive everything before you buy. M, non-M, quasi-M. I knew for me, coming from an e92, which was already a little too big for my liking, that the new 4 series was not for me. I would have bought one, but really I would have been less inspired by a 435i m-sport just because the size was not a fit for me. Likewise, I lost interest in the M4 because it would be the same size as the 4, and while it would handle a lot better, the dynamics of the ride would not be there for me. I wanted a shorter wheelbase.

Luckily the M235i came up, looked good and drove how I expected a sporty coupe to drive. Granted, now I'm hoping I can pick up an M2 in three years, but this car will be amazing while I get to have it.

If the 4 feels better for you, go for it, but drive the M235i first just to be sure. I think looks wise, the 4 series is a little nicer and the options are fuller. I prefer the low, slung look, which is why I think the 650i m-sport is the sexiest car BMW makes right now (aside from the i8). But size wise for me, 2 series all day.

[Cyberdemon]

So you're saying a dealer tried to sell you the most expensive of the 3 cars with a time crunch involved?

Who would have thunk it. ;-)

Adding M performance accessories into a lease is standard practice and they will factor the residual price of the part.

[Revartr]

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Drive everything before you buy. M, non-M, quasi-M. I knew for me, coming from an e92, which was already a little too big for my liking, that the new 4 series was not for me. I would have bought one, but really I would have been less inspired by a 435i m-sport just because the size was not a fit for me. Likewise, I lost interest in the M4 because it would be the same size as the 4, and while it would handle a lot better, the dynamics of the ride would not be there for me. I wanted a shorter wheelbase.

Luckily the M235i came up, looked good and drove how I expected a sporty coupe to drive. Granted, now I'm hoping I can pick up an M2 in three years, but this car will be amazing while I get to have it.

If the 4 feels better for you, go for it, but drive the M235i first just to be sure. I think looks wise, the 4 series is a little nicer and the options are fuller. I prefer the low, slung look, which is why I think the 650i m-sport is the sexiest car BMW makes right now (aside from the i8). But size wise for me, 2 series all day.

I definitely plan on test driving at least the M235i and another 435i before I make my decision, hopefully a M4 as well. And that's what I've been hearing. But I didn't really think it seemed that big when I drove it. Seemed close to driving my Z than the 228i with the performance options did.

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

So you're saying a dealer tried to sell you the most expensive of the 3 cars with a time crunch involved?

Who would have thunk it. ;-)

Adding M performance accessories into a lease is standard practice and they will factor the residual price of the part.

Not saying that at all, ha. My father knows Steve (the sales manager) personally. I was the one who brought the 435i up to begin with, and I've known about the "time crunch" since I started looking at getting one. It's just something they offer with the Un4gettable test drive event. You have 60 days from then to use the extra $1,000 credit they give you. Honestly, Steve was the one who recommended I go test drive the M235i before I make a decision, even though it'd be cheaper than the 435i. He even said that if I really needed it before that offer expires, he would be able to get one from another dealer. I know that the M235i's are hard to get. It's not exactly something he can control. Sorry if I seem defensive about the guy, but he's not just some salesman trying to sell me the most expensive car. He even went through and told me about some options of the options that I should take off because they're either not worth the money or do little to nothing different, aside from increasing the price.

And ah, I gotcha. I didn't know whether they could or not before.

[2msport]

Curious how you figure that the 235 would have less body roll. If the 228 was fitted with adaptive then you can expect the same body roll and handling in the 235. It's largely same suspension.

[Revartr]

Originally Posted by 2msport

Curious how you figure that the 235 would have less body roll. If the 228 was fitted with adaptive then you can expect the same body roll and handling in the 235. It's largely same suspension.

I just had hoped that the M235i would have a more performance-oriented suspension than the 228i, even with the performance bits. Just didn't feel as tight as I'd like. :/

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Revartr

I just had hoped that the M235i would have a more performance-oriented suspension than the 228i, even with the performance bits. Just didn't feel as tight as I'd like. :/

An M235i or 228i with the MSport Adaptive Suspension and Variable Sport Steering, MSport brakes, and Michelin PSS tires (aka Track Package on the 228i) should feel the same, other than the effect of the additional weight over the front for the M235i. Be sure to set the console switch to Sport or Sport+, and then assess.

If you drove/did that and it's still too soft for you......then, it's too soft for you.

[Revartr]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

An M235i or 228i with the MSport Adaptive Suspension and Variable Sport Steering, MSport brakes, and Michelin PSS tires (aka Track Package on the 228i) should feel the same, other than the effect of the additional weight over the front for the M235i. Be sure to set the console switch to Sport or Sport+, and then assess.

If you drove/did that and it's still too soft for you......then, it's too soft for you.

I test drove all of the vehicles with Sport + mode on. It wasn't unbearable soft, but it wasn't anywhere near as stiff as I'd like it to be. The 435i with the M Performance options seemed a good bit stiffer.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Revartr

I test drove all of the vehicles with Sport + mode on. It wasn't unbearable soft, but it wasn't anywhere near as stiff as I'd like it to be. The 435i with the M Performance options seemed a good bit stiffer.

Yes, MPerformance is the next step beyond MSport. There is an MPerformance suspension for the 2 series as well.

[2msport]

If you bought a 435 without mperformance shocks it would be even less stiff than the 2 series. The 2 is one of bmws tightest best handling cars right now. (When stock) The suspension was explained in great detail in another thread. The car actually has very little body roll when pushed (verified by videos and a friend who autocrossed) the problem is the springs are too soft so it absorbs a majority of the road imperfections. Which gives the feeling of a soft suspension. But in reality it's actually quite stiff and compliant.

It sounds like which ever car you buy, you better factor in m performance suspension. Also it sounds like the 2 isn't the right size for you. It sounded like you enjoyed the 4 a lot.

[Lucky13]

A 228 lost out to the Audi A3 in one of the car magazines basically due to the run flat tires. I thought the 228 had run flats even with M Sport unless its a 2015 with track package so my point is the M235 will handle a lot better than a 228 M Sport with run flats. Did your 228 have run flats? Problem is also that a 435 M Sport with run flats also recently lost out to an S5 basically again due to run flats. It's amazing reading all the car magazines but almost every time a BMW loses it due to run flats and option costs.

[Revartr]

Originally Posted by 2msport

If you bought a 435 without mperformance shocks it would be even less stiff than the 2 series. The 2 is one of bmws tightest best handling cars right now. (When stock) The suspension was explained in great detail in another thread. The car actually has very little body roll when pushed (verified by videos and a friend who autocrossed) the problem is the springs are too soft so it absorbs a majority of the road imperfections. Which gives the feeling of a soft suspension. But in reality it's actually quite stiff and compliant.

It sounds like which ever car you buy, you better factor in m performance suspension. Also it sounds like the 2 isn't the right size for you. It sounded like you enjoyed the 4 a lot.

Well, it wasn't an issue of it absorbing road imperfections. I took all three cars pretty hard through some winding/curvy mountain roads, considering that's something that I would want to enjoy doing every now and then with my future car and something that I've been doing almost every weekend (along with tracking) with my Z. The 228i just seemed to have noticeably more body roll through the corners than the 435i with the M Performance options. Given, both cars had a good bit more body roll than my Z, which has VERY little in the corners (what I'm more comfortable with). The 228i just didn't seem as tight, even with the M Sport stuff. :/

Originally Posted by Lucky13

A 228 lost out to the Audi A3 in one of the car magazines basically due to the run flat tires. I thought the 228 had run flats even with M Sport unless its a 2015 with track package so my point is the M235 will handle a lot better than a 228 M Sport with run flats. Did your 228 have run flats? Problem is also that a 435 M Sport with run flats also recently lost out to an S5 basically again due to run flats. It's amazing reading all the car magazines but almost every time a BMW loses it due to run flats and option costs.

I'm not sure if it did or not. They were definitely pretty sticky tires, though.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Revartr

The 228i just seemed to have noticeably more body roll through the corners than the 435i with the M Performance options. Given, both cars had a good bit more body roll than my Z, which has VERY little in the corners (what I'm more comfortable with). The 228i just didn't seem as tight, even with the M Sport stuff. :/

I think all we're suggesting is that you do an "apples to apples" comparison. You are now off one level by comparing MPerformance to MSport.

It might be easier to find a 435i with MSport, drive that to figure out the degree of downgrade difference from 435i MPerformance, and then assume that same degree of upgrade if applied to a 2 Series MSport to have a 2 Series MPerformance!

[ewohar]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I think all we're suggesting is that you do an "apples to apples" comparison. You are now off one level by comparing MPerformance to MSport.

It might be easier to find a 435i with MSport, drive that to figure out the degree of downgrade difference from 435i MPerformance, and then assume that same degree of upgrade if applied to a 2 Series MSport to have a 2 Series MPerformance!

Yes, that is the point.

[Revartr]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I think all we're suggesting is that you do an "apples to apples" comparison. You are now off one level by comparing MPerformance to MSport.

It might be easier to find a 435i with MSport, drive that to figure out the degree of downgrade difference from 435i MPerformance, and then assume that same degree of upgrade if applied to a 2 Series MSport to have a 2 Series MPerformance!

I gotcha. I do plan on making a few hour drive this Saturday to test drive an actual M235i and a M4. I'll make it a point to test drive a 435i without all of the M Performance options, as well.

[adimfx]

I had the chance to drive both M235i and 435i Coupe with xDrive and both are great to drive.

The only thing I don't like at the M235i is the interior space. For the 435i the minus is that it feels too big and too wide.

As a plus, the M235i has a great balance for wheelbase-power-steering-proportions. The 435i feels more relaxed and more enjoyable to drive it slow (than the M235i).

A 435i with many options is very close to the M4 Coupe, so I don't see the point in buying the 435i and not the M4 Coupe...

[w3rkn]

Wait, you are willing to pay $20 grand more, for a car with the same engine.. and nearly the same weight..? Then complain about the M235i's suspension..?

When you have $20k in hand for suspension parts..?



Honestly, the 435i is too big for a BMW.. I'd take the smaller one every time & just modify to my needs. Or, look into another RWD coupe..

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by adimfx

A 435i with many options is very close to the M4 Coupe, so I don't see the point in buying the 435i and not the M4 Coupe...

The point most likely is a fully optioned 435 is about $3K less expensive that a base M4. Equal the options & the spread is about $14K. With all the goodies the M4 is near $99K.

IMHO a dollar for dollar 435 swap would be a Z51 Stingray.

[Ritz42]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

The point most likely is a fully optioned 435 is about $3K less expensive that a base M4. Equal the options & the spread is about $14K. With all the goodies the M4 is near $99K.

IMHO a dollar for dollar 435 swap would be a Z51 Stingray.

Actually to get a 435i equipped the same as the a base m4 the difference is more like 8 grand. And that doesn't even include the port installed diff. Factor that in, and it's somewhere around 6k, maybe even less.

(Disclaimer, to get the 435 with lumbar support that the m4 offers as standard, you need to add the premium package, which nets a 435 comfort access, leather and satelite radio as well, which are not standard on the m4)

[jeremicium]

My .02

First off, have you considered a eurodelivery? I wish someone had mentioned that to me when I was shopping for new BMWs. You can potentially save thousands of dollars.

I've driven all three cars (M235i, 435i, and M4). I'm coming from an E92 335. I've also driven the 370z. As far as handling prowess, the M4 wins hands down. Nimble, composed, and significantly faster. The M235i felt much more nimble, much lighter, and sharper turn in than the 435i, with all of this, it also felt much more planted when pushed hard. I know the weight difference between the 435i and the M235i isn't that much, but it sure felt like a lot.

To me the M235i suffers from the same interior shortcomings that the 135i did. The interior is just underwhelming. Where you spend most of your time, in the cockpit, the 4 series just feels much better than the 2 series. When I was shopping I preferred the way the 135i drove to the 335, but the interior feel was just a deal breaker for me.

For me, i've been considering all three cars you've mentioned. I've ruled out the 435i because it just didn't feel special enough. When I look at the cars optioned out the way i'd like it becomes really confusing. The M235i is $51-52k, the 435i is around $58-59k, the M4 is around $66k. If I throw the M3 into the mix, thats around $63-64K. So I can get a full on M car for $11k more than the M235i and $4k more than a 4 series. Looking at Lease costs, if you can afford a few hundred extra a month the M3/M4 just becomes much more attractive.

Food for thought.

[Revartr]

Originally Posted by jeremicium

My .02

First off, have you considered a eurodelivery? I wish someone had mentioned that to me when I was shopping for new BMWs. You can potentially save thousands of dollars.

I've driven all three cars (M235i, 435i, and M4). I'm coming from an E92 335. I've also driven the 370z. As far as handling prowess, the M4 wins hands down. Nimble, composed, and significantly faster. The M235i felt much more nimble, much lighter, and sharper turn in than the 435i, with all of this, it also felt much more planted when pushed hard. I know the weight difference between the 435i and the M235i isn't that much, but it sure felt like a lot.

To me the M235i suffers from the same interior shortcomings that the 135i did. The interior is just underwhelming. Where you spend most of your time, in the cockpit, the 4 series just feels much better than the 2 series. When I was shopping I preferred the way the 135i drove to the 335, but the interior feel was just a deal breaker for me.

For me, i've been considering all three cars you've mentioned. I've ruled out the 435i because it just didn't feel special enough. When I look at the cars optioned out the way i'd like it becomes really confusing. The M235i is $51-52k, the 435i is around $58-59k, the M4 is around $66k. If I throw the M3 into the mix, thats around $63-64K. So I can get a full on M car for $11k more than the M235i and $4k more than a 4 series. Looking at Lease costs, if you can afford a few hundred extra a month the M3/M4 just becomes much more attractive.

Food for thought.

What exactly is a Euro delivery, if you don't mind explaining?

And I'm currently looking at three options. The M235i with ALL of the M Performance options (BBK, wheels, LSD, exhaust, suspension, carbon fiber interior bits and alcantara, exterior bits, etc.). The 435i with a few of the M Performance options (exhaust, PPK, LSD, suspension, etc.). And finally the M4 without the carbon ceramic brakes. Net pricing after documentation fees, owner protection, and taxes, that I've gotten from the sales manager for the following cars built to my configuration (without down payments or lease rates) are $76,025.70 for the M235i, $81,125.73 for the 435i, and $89,233.67 for the M4.

Would these numbers lower any if my dealer were to get the car from another dealer that already had one of these? And how much do you think I'd be able to negotiate those prices down, if at all?

[jeremicium]

Originally Posted by Revartr

What exactly is a Euro delivery, if you don't mind explaining?

And I'm currently looking at three options. The M235i with ALL of the M Performance options (BBK, wheels, LSD, exhaust, suspension, carbon fiber interior bits and alcantara, exterior bits, etc.). The 435i with a few of the M Performance options (exhaust, PPK, LSD, suspension, etc.). And finally the M4 without the carbon ceramic brakes. Net pricing after documentation fees, owner protection, and taxes, that I've gotten from the sales manager for the following cars built to my configuration (without down payments or lease rates) are $76,025.70 for the M235i, $81,125.73 for the 435i, and $89,233.67 for the M4.

Would these numbers lower any if my dealer were to get the car from another dealer that already had one of these? And how much do you think I'd be able to negotiate those prices down, if at all?

There are a lot of threads on here about eurodelivery. Check M3 forums and E90 forums for better info than you'll find on the 2 forums.

Basically, you fly to Munich and pick the car up from BMWs delivery center/museum/HQ. There are a number of factors that can influence eurodelivery pricing. High demand cars are sometimes unable to be offered at a discount, but you have to really shop around to find the best deals. Standard eurodelivery MSRP is 7% off U.S. MSRP. Eurodelivery invoice pricing is another 7% lower than that. This only applies to base price, not to options. If you are patient, and diligent about searching for a good deal you can probably expect to get around 10% off MSRP. On the M235i thats gonna save you $4-5k. And you get the experience of picking the car up from Germany.

Here's a recent thread on whats going on with M235 eurodeliveries:

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1021980