[ChargerHellcat]

I bought this on eBay. It claims to be real carbon fiber. Is this real carbon fiber? Seller has great reviews selling all carbon fiber products. Paid 560 dollars for it…if this is not real carbon fiber I will be returning it looking for a different venue for the front OEM lip look.

[GregM4]

Not dry carbon IMO. Could be a carbon over FRP or something similar.

[ChargerHellcat]

Originally Posted by GregM4

Not dry carbon IMO. Could be a carbon over FRP or something similar.

FRP? So it could be a mix of carbon fiber with other materials?

It mentioned in the description it's dry carbon.

[Flying05]

I get why folks don't buy OEM for carbon fiber depending on the piece and price, but why buy eBay stuff when you could buy from a reputable place like R44 or Unit17, etc? And it's not that much more. eBay unproven carbon fiber for an $80k + car just doesn't seem right to me.

[ChargerHellcat]

Originally Posted by Flying05

I get why folks don't buy OEM for carbon fiber depending on the piece and price, but why buy eBay stuff when you could buy from a reputable place like R44 or Unit17, etc? And it's not that much more. eBay unproven carbon fiber for an $80k + car just doesn't seem right to me.

First of all it's a 96k car. You don't need to understand why I did what I did. It's not your money to spend.

I'm just asking for some feedback on these pieces. If you offer some helpful advice. That would greatly be appreciated.

To be truthful - I didn't know how reputable r44 was. They seemed like a bunch new kids that are entrepreneurs.

[///MeraldCity_G82]

Originally Posted by Flying05

I get why folks don't buy OEM for carbon fiber depending on the piece and price, but why buy eBay stuff when you could buy from a reputable place like R44 or Unit17, etc? And it's not that much more. eBay unproven carbon fiber for an $80k + car just doesn't seem right to me.

You do realize Unit17 and R44 gets their carbon from China right? It cost a lot of money to develop and create tooling and molds for carbon fiber. I bet both those companies can't show where and how their stuff is made without any editing. YEAH I SAID IT

[///MeraldCity_G82]

Originally Posted by ChargerHellcat

First of all is it's a 96k car. You don't need to understand why I did what I did. It's not your money to spend.

I'm just asking for some feedback on these pieces. If you offer some helpful advice. That would greatly be appreciated.

To be truthful - I didn't know how reputable r44 was. They seemed like a bunch new kids that are entrepreneurs.

Doesn't look like dry/prepreg carbon fiber to me. Here is a pic of OEM, made in THAILAND, not the UK(people on these forums think they are actually made in UK, thus being more superior)

[ChargerHellcat]

Originally Posted by ///MeraldCity_G82

Doesn't look like dry/prepreg carbon fiber to me. Here is a pic of OEM, made in THAILAND, not the UK(people on these forums think they are actually made in UK, thus being more superior)

I guess I will be returning these and looking for a place to purchase OEM front lip for a reasonable price. So many people selling all these after market carbon fiber. Hard to tell the damn difference which is legit and which is not. The prices vary so much.

[Flying05]

Originally Posted by ChargerHellcat

First of all is it's a 96k car. You don't need to understand why I did what I did. It's not your money to spend.

I'm just asking for some feedback on these pieces. If you offer some helpful advice. That would greatly be appreciated.

To be truthful - I didn't know how reputable r44 was. They seemed like a bunch new kids that are entrepreneurs.

Ok. So you're cheap. It's ok, just admit it. Buying eBay shit on a $100k Build. Hope you're not in over your head on the car.

[///MeraldCity_G82]

How is he being cheap? Front lips break often. Sorry we aren't ballers like you are LMFAO

I can see you are one of those people who make assumptions and need validation in their lives by calling others cheap.

[knerr57]

Originally Posted by ///MeraldCity_G82

You do realize Unit17 and R44 gets their carbon from China right? It cost a lot of money to develop and create tooling and molds for carbon fiber. I bet both those companies can't show where and how their stuff is made without any editing. YEAH I SAID IT

R44 produces their MHC plus line in Silverstone. I have seen their autoclave. The strut braces they're buying from me are produced from start to finish in the EU

I have seen Unit 17 stuff in person. I have no interest in bad-mouthing another company on the internet.

OP your part is 100% backed by fiberglass and is likely a single layer of wet-laid carbon in a polyester resin matrix. there is a zero percent chance that it's dry carbon as advertised.

[DS_BMW]

If the outside weave looks good and it fits well why does it even matter?

[mattssi]

Originally Posted by knerr57

R44 produces their MHC plus line in Silverstone. I have seen their autoclave. The strut braces they're buying from me are produced from start to finish in the EU

I have seen Unit 17 stuff in person. I have no interest in bad-mouthing another company on the internet.

OP your part is 100% backed by fiberglass and is likely a single layer of wet-laid carbon in a polyester resin matrix. there is a zero percent chance that it's dry carbon as advertised.

Silverstone and a place in Asia as well.

[knerr57]

Originally Posted by ChargerHellcat

I bought this on eBay. It claims to be real carbon fiber. Is this real carbon fiber? Seller has great reviews selling all carbon fiber products. Paid 560 dollars for it…if this is not real carbon fiber I will be returning it looking for a different venue for the front OEM lip look.

For those curious about how exactly to tell, there are a couple of dead giveaways. The first one, for me at least, is the smell. Polyester resin, which is what 99% of fiberglass parts like these use, has a very unique sweet/burnt/melted plastic smell. Unless the part is very old, its a very obvious smell and will be the first thing you notice when you open the box.

Epoxy-based full carbon fiber parts will have no smell... MAYBE you'll smell the clearcoat, but that is highly unlikely.

Some companies make full carbon parts using polyester resin, but that's not as common,

All prepreg (dry) carbon is epoxy-based, so if it has a smell, its a lie.

The second way to tell is unmistakable, especially on parts like this where you can see the backside. Any full carbon part will have the same 2x2 twill you see in the picture of the OEM part above. It may be harder to see in some cases, such as infusion processed composites (only because the B side is so rough) but it will absolutely be present except in some rare cases where more exotic reinforcement such as triaxial weave is used.

What we see here in the photos provided are chopped strand mat (CSM) in the middle of the first picture. This is exactly what it sounds like- chopped strands of fiberglass that are bound by a resin that reacts to the styrenes in the fiberglass causing it to fall apart and easily be molded into shape. On the outer flat surfaces, you see stitched biaxial glass fibers.

If at any point you see CSM or Biaxial reinforcement, there is zero question to the fact that that part is not "dry" carbon.

[knerr57]

Originally Posted by DS_BMW

If the outside weave looks good and it fits well why does it even matter?

Why would you be okay with being scammed and lied to by shady companies? I see this rhetoric every time this debate comes up. If the man ordered a part that said it was GFRP backed carbon look, I would agree with you 100%

The company lied. That's reason enough.

I will explain why it matters from a value standpoint though.

I pay 94 Euros per square meter of prepreg (dry) carbon fiber.
These guys paid 3 euros per square meter of fiberglass and likely 15 per square meter of cheap wet lay carbon (that is used in a single layer) and they called it the same thing as prepreg.

Epoxy resins typically cost ~100 euros per 5kg kit (prepreg is epoxy)
These guys bought Polyester resin for <20 euros per 5kg and called it the same thing as prepreg

Prepreg requires an autoclave to process it. An autoclave big enough to process splitters, side skirts, spoilers, etc. is at minimum 80-100k. then once you have an autoclave you need tooling that can withstand the daily abuse of seeing 60-90 PSI at 300*F without warping or expanding too much. We use strictly prepreg carbon fiber molds to make our parts because the prepreg system has a near-perfect zero CTE.

Fiberglass/polyester resin parts are made in fiberglass molds that cure at room temperature.

Wet lay Epoxy-based composites require a skilled painter to apply a UV protective clear coat finish to prevent the Epoxy from being damaged by the sun as Epoxy is highly and quickly reactive to sunlight (I left a broken mold in the sunlight for a month and the surface went from grey to yellow in that little time

The prepreg we use is UV resistant on its own, but we also apply a Porsche-approved finish to the parts in a 3 stage process to ensure they're perfectly flat and glossy. This combination will ensure the parts will look excellent for the life of the car.

fiberglass composites get a UV-resistant gel coat applied to the mold before the reinforcement is applied. No need for skilled labor to spray the finish on after the fact. Additionally, this gel coat will prevent the part from fading for 2-3 years.. just long enough for people to leave a nice review and get out of the warranty period.

9/10 carbon parts you've seen that are covered in a thick, faded, crazed finish that looks terrible are actually polyester-based fiberglass-backed garbage.

Then, least of all, there's the weight issue. A well-engineered carbon part will weigh half or less of what a similar fiberglass piece will. it will be stronger(not because of the carbon in this case but because of the resin.. Polyester resins are extremely brittle whereas epoxy resins are significantly tougher), more durable, and stiffer.


So, why does it matter? Because you're being massively overcharged and the proper carbon parts will last much longer.

[Limegrntaln]

I've seen Unit17s carbon, in person, and it's extremely legit, to the point, where their US distributor doesn't even want to sell it to me, because they know how picky I am about aftermarket carbon. After seeing it, this weekend, I would give it an 8/10 and that being as picky as I can about it.

Being as honest as I can about it, this was my only issue with it. The car that I saw them on, had OEM winglet side skirts, and Unit17 rear winglets. On the rear winglets, and only on the left side, I noticed this little bit of carbon weave bunching, pictured, on the fin transition. This is the rear winglet on the drivers side. The passenger side fin was perfect.

The only other thing I noticed was, an ever so slight clear-coat orange peel on the winglet face, itself. I mean ever so slight. So slight, in fact, that if this car wouldn't have had OEM side skirts, to compare them to, I would have been able to tell. As you can see in the pic with the yellow circle, there is no orange peel on the flat surface of the winglets. I just noticed a little on the front side of the winglet fin.

The OEM pieces are flawless. Giving these pieces a 8/10 may even be a little harsh. If you make sure you get the a set with no weave blemishes, like the passenger side, I could easily fix the orange peel, myself, with some wet sanding, and polish. For the price of these, $800-$900 versus $2,500 for OEM. For 997 out of 1,000 people, it wouldn't even need to be fixed.

I wouldn't mind fixing the orange peel, because I'm just that OCD about it. The average person will never notice it. I detail cars, so, I look at everything in the sun, closeup, at every angle. From eye level, looking down, you would never see it. And I probably wouldn't have even noticed, if the car wasn't parked in the gravel, where I could tell in the reflection, at just the right angle.

Everything else was a direct match. Color, even in the sun, and weave pattern, and carbon color, was flawless, and would be nearly indistinguishable from OEM. Both of these pictures, on the car, were taken at the same time, on the same car. I took the cell phone looking picture, at the same time our camera guy was taking the professional shots. I was there for these unit17uk pictures, getting taken. The pics were taken, this past weekend, at our G8X meetup, in California. So, I know the pics are consistent.

[knerr57]

That's an 8/10 finish, hey?

Like I said, I dont want to run my mouth about them, and I am not saying their parts don't look nice, its just frustrating to me that they market that splitter as real carbon fiber when it's 90% GFRP. I cant speak to the other parts they label as dry carbon, haven't seen them.. they might well be because they make a point to call the splitter "carbon fiber" and other parts "dry carbon fiber"

[Custom Install]

I've been impressed with R44, I couldn't care where the product is made actually. If I get what I want quality wise that's fine.
I have a top of the line Pinarello road bike, is the frame made in Italy? No, It's made in Asia then painted in Italy.
On my last M4 the OEM carbon kit had flaws on the front splitter and rear diffuser.
If you want perfection OEM isn't always 100%, but you can be assured they'll make it right in the end.

[ChargerHellcat]

Originally Posted by Flying05

Ok. So you're cheap. It's ok, just admit it. Buying eBay shit on a $100k Build. Hope you're not in over your head on the car.

I don't have to justify how I spend my money on things to you. I don't know you from the hole in the ground. I'm not rich. I don't pretend I have money to blow all over town. I just bought my kid a 40k car last month and my wife's a fully loaded EV6 will be arriving next month. I don't need you to be my finance manager or if I'm in over my head. What I perceived in value in things and how you perceived them can be completely different. I didn't ask anything on this thread for you to understand me. I asked for help because I'm not very familiar with where everyone purchased their after market product or the product themselves.

People who act like Mr. big shots I tend to notice have very little to their name and think people who conserve their wealth is cheap. I'm not working till my 60s. I'll be retired by the time I'm 45 while you're trying act like Mr. shot. I guess everybody who buys aftermarket parts is cheap then?? No logic to your statement.

Sorry to derailed my own thread because of an troll.

I was hoping this thread would help noobies like myself purchase some quality after market carbon fiber products if they didn't add it during their port installed and or wanted to add a little more after their initial build.

[ChargerHellcat]

Originally Posted by knerr57

For those curious about how exactly to tell, there are a couple of dead giveaways. The first one, for me at least, is the smell. Polyester resin, which is what 99% of fiberglass parts like these use, has a very unique sweet/burnt/melted plastic smell. Unless the part is very old, its a very obvious smell and will be the first thing you notice when you open the box.

Epoxy-based full carbon fiber parts will have no smell... MAYBE you'll smell the clearcoat, but that is highly unlikely.

Some companies make full carbon parts using polyester resin, but that's not as common,

All prepreg (dry) carbon is epoxy-based, so if it has a smell, its a lie.

The second way to tell is unmistakable, especially on parts like this where you can see the backside. Any full carbon part will have the same 2x2 twill you see in the picture of the OEM part above. It may be harder to see in some cases, such as infusion processed composites (only because the B side is so rough) but it will absolutely be present except in some rare cases where more exotic reinforcement such as triaxial weave is used.

What we see here in the photos provided are chopped strand mat (CSM) in the middle of the first picture. This is exactly what it sounds like- chopped strands of fiberglass that are bound by a resin that reacts to the styrenes in the fiberglass causing it to fall apart and easily be molded into shape. On the outer flat surfaces, you see stitched biaxial glass fibers.

If at any point you see CSM or Biaxial reinforcement, there is zero question to the fact that that part is not "dry" carbon.

I definitely did noticed the smell right away. The mesh behind the finish is what throws me off. Full blown carbon fiber doesn't have the mesh like my original post correct?

Funny thing is. I brought up the fact after further reviewed that it wasn't fully carbon fiber. They didn't mention a word about it. Just constantly tryi by give me half off. I'm sending it back and will be purchasing it from Kies Motorsport or xxii tuning.

[BMWM4CX]

Originally Posted by ChargerHellcat

I don't have to justify how I spend my money on things to you. I don't know you from the hole in the ground. I'm not rich. I don't pretend I have money to blow all over town. I just bought my kid a 40k car last month and my wife a fully loaded EV6 will be arriving next month. I don't need you to be my finance manager or if I'm in over my head. What I perceived in value in things and how you perceived them can be completely different. I didn't ask anything on this thread for you to understand me. I asked for help because I'm not very familiar with where everyone purchased their after market product or the product themselves.

People who act like Mr. big shots I tend to notice have very little to their name and think people who conserve their wealth is cheap. I'm not working till my 60s. I'll be retired by the time I'm 45 while you're trying act like Mr. shot. I guess everybody who buys aftermarket parts is cheap then?? No logic to your statement.

Sorry to derailed my own thread because of an troll.

I was hoping this thread would help noobies like myself purchase some quality after market carbon fiber products if they didn't add it during their port installed and or wanted to add a little more after their initial build.

Well said and I appreciated your post mate 👍🏻.

There's a saying I heard a few years ago which made a lot of sense…

'Money talks, wealth whispers' - a saying which a few on here could do with remembering.

[ChargerHellcat]

Originally Posted by BMWM4CX

Well said and I appreciated your post mate 👍🏻.

There's a saying I heard a few years ago which made a lot of sense…

'Money talks, wealth whispers' - a saying which a few on here could do with remembering.

Agreed. I have heard it enough times on this forum.,"I don't understand why you didn't add that option to your 80k build". There are people who are very wealthy and maybe not RICH that sticks to a budget because in their mind that's all it's worth to them. I never understood why members would always challenge others member's build because it's not what they would of order.