[CanadianGatorBacon]

So I accidentally hijacked another thread, and figured I'd start a new one to get some opinions. I had new winter wheels and tires put on (Blizzak WS80 and Apex Aero-7) two weekends ago at a dealer, but I forgot to bring the TPMS with me to have them installed at the same time. Wheels and tires were mounted and balanced at the time, and the car seemed to drive fine from what I remember other than it started pulling to the left a bit, but I may have kept speeds down on the new winter tires. I went back a few days later to have the TPMS installed and do an alignment. Over the next few days, I started noticing slight all over vibration at about 60 mph, and getting pretty noticeable at 70+ mph. I don't think the tires were rebalanced when the TPMS were installed.

Either way, I think I'll have to get the balance checked out again. But I don't want to have to make a ton of trips to the shop to get this issue figured out if balancing alone doesn't solve the issue. So I would like the tires and wheels checked for issues as well. I've read road force balancing can find whether the wheels and tires are out of round or if the tire has force variations. Can I have these issues checked at the dealer, or should I go to an independent shop that I know has the equipment?

Bought the tires from tire rack, so I could go to one of their recommended installers. I could also tryout this local BMW tuner http://www.rrtptm.com/maintenance/to...tire-mounting/

Any suggestions, insights, or words of caution? Any DC/Maryland/Virginia specific info is also very welcome.

[overcoil]

before you do anything call and find out if tire's were rebalanced when tpms were installed - I'd be surprised if they didn't rebalance.

[CanadianGatorBacon]

Spoke to the service adviser I dealt with and he said they did a balancing when installing the TPMS. But, it was a very quick response so I doubt he was looking at my service record. I'm going to double check the receipt when I get back to my car tonight. I did ask if they do road force balancing and he said it's the only way they do it. I'll be taking it in the morning and see what they say. One more shot before I start looking elsewhere.

[overcoil]

If you feel vibration in steering wheel usually front wheel out of balance
If you feel it in car seat usually rear wheel out of balance.
Also use your iDrive to chk tire pressure #'s. Make sure no over inflation.

[shark715]

Perhaps my information is dated, but the last time I looked Hunter was the only manufacture of road force balancing machines. I believe it's a model number 9700.

And last time I looked Hunter also had a directory of owners of these machines on their website. From what I recall a significant portion of the owners were car dealers.

[CanadianGatorBacon]

Originally Posted by shark715

And last time I looked Hunter also had a directory of owners of these machines on their website. From what I recall a significant portion of the owners were car dealers.

Thanks! That was helpful in confirming what the service department said. I have trust issues sometimes.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by CanadianGatorBacon

I have trust issues sometimes.

No need to apologize for that. It's just learned behavior based on experience with most car dealers :-)

[BMW335iOn18s]

Yep, BMW dealers use Hunter 9700 machines, as do some indys.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

Yep, BMW dealers use Hunter 9700 machines, as do some indys.

Many BMW dealers have them, but some do not.

[och]

Road force balancing is useless with aftermarket wheels. The purpose of road force balancing is only needed to eliminate wheel hop by matching low spot in the wheel to the high spot in the tire - and its absolutely not necessary with quality wheels and tires, unless you're driving at very high speeds and need that extra bit of precision.

After market wheels have oversized center bores to fit multiple vehicles, and can never be perfectly centered on the hub assembly. The wheel/tire assembly can be perfectly balanced, ever road force balanced - but it will alway hop when installed onto the car.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by och

its absolutely not necessary with quality wheels and tires, unless you're driving at very high speeds and need that extra bit of precision.

That's most definitely not true. Sure, lots of vehicles will not need road force balancing, but some vehicles are much more sensitive to balance than others. For example, certain Nissan Pathfinders are notoriously difficult to balance, and in one of their Technical Service Bulletins Nissan recommends road force balancing. No doubt Bridgestone would take issue if someone suggested that the OEM tires they supplied to Nissan were not of the highest quality.

[CanadianGatorBacon]

Originally Posted by och

After market wheels have oversized center bores to fit multiple vehicles, and can never be perfectly centered on the hub assembly. The wheel/tire assembly can be perfectly balanced, ever road force balanced - but it will alway hop when installed onto the car.

Not all aftermarket wheels have oversized center boars. Some are made for specific fits.

[och]

Originally Posted by shark715

That's most definitely not true. Sure, lots of vehicles will not need road force balancing, but some vehicles are much more sensitive to balance than others. For example, certain Nissan Pathfinders are notoriously difficult to balance, and in one of their Technical Service Bulletins Nissan recommends road force balancing. No doubt Bridgestone would take issue if someone suggested that the OEM tires they supplied to Nissan were not of the highest quality.

I'm not very familiar with Pathfinders, but I know that some offroad vehicles have wheels that are lug centric instead of hub centric, so these wheels need to be balanced with lug centric flange adaptors for proper results - which are vehicle specific and no local tire shop would have them.

That said, road force balancing can help when either tires of wheels are either low quality or damaged. Tires are not always perfectly round, and neither are wheels, and road force balancing helps to match low/high spots on the tires and rims. Not saying that Nissan or Bridgestone supplied low quality wheels, but on a pathfinder they are probably bigger, offroad setups and can have larger tolerances for runout and other inconsistencies.

In either case, this has nothing to do with the OPs problem. His tires and wheels can be perfectly balanced and road force balanced, but if they are not centered on the hub wheel hop will continue to occur and the wheels will get out of balanced over relatively short time worsening the problem even more.

[och]

Originally Posted by CanadianGatorBacon

Not all aftermarket wheels have oversized center boars. Some are made for specific fits.

I just looked up you wheels, and it seems that they do have the same center bore as OEM wheels. In this case you might want to try road force balancing.

I just put WS-80 on my m235 last week, but I put them on stock rims. My local shop dismounted summer tires, and put these on, and had them balanced on Hunter 9700 machine. It was just a regular balance, no roadforce balancing, and have no issues whatsoever, everything is butter smooth. I've been using this shop for years, and never had any issues with vibrations, except when I actually had bent rims. Never needed road force balancing on any of my vehicles, except once when they performed it and determined that one of the new tires that I bought (i think it was a Goodyear) was way out of round, and I had tirerack exchange it.