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      09-20-2015, 01:26 PM   #1
dailowill
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CLOSED: BimmerTech PnP Amp Group Buy

Sorry, but the group buy is closed.

Please contact Nelson@BimmerTech to start a new group buy

Last edited by dailowill; 12-18-2015 at 01:27 AM.. Reason: Group buy is closed
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      09-21-2015, 01:33 AM   #2
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      09-21-2015, 04:03 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Nelson@BimmerTech View Post
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Nelson, mine is a F22
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      09-21-2015, 11:33 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightelf View Post
Nelson, mine is a F22
fixed but the VIN you sent me was for an E82
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      09-21-2015, 01:19 PM   #5
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Man. I'm sooooo tempted by this. Even at regular price this is a good deal if the upgrades (more power, higher S/N ratio, DSP, etc.) are legit -- and they appear to be.

Question: how does this unit play with the ASD (Active Sound)? I'm fairly certain that its hardware implementation relative to the OEM amp is different from model to model, so I'm curious ...

... ahhh. Just read some of the review threads. It appears that ASD must be coded off for this to work properly -- and the Fischer DSP software appears to be Windows/PC only, correct?.

So, basically, the hardware is PnP, but the operation isn't, quite. For my application ... no thanks.
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      09-21-2015, 01:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike
Man. I'm sooooo tempted by this. Even at regular price this is a good deal if the upgrades (more power, higher S/N ratio, DSP, etc.) are legit -- and they appear to be.

Question: how does this unit play with the ASD (Active Sound)? I'm fairly certain that its hardware implementation relative to the OEM amp is different from model to model, so I'm curious ...

... ahhh. Just read some of the review threads. It appears that ASD must be coded off for this to work properly -- and the Fischer DSP software appears to be Windows/PC only, correct?.

So, basically, the hardware is PnP, but the operation isn't, quite. For my application ... no thanks.
Oh I didn't know that either, out for me then as well
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      09-21-2015, 02:03 PM   #7
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The 2 series HIFI system is the worst OEM system BMW sells. I created a tune for it last week and couldn't believe that it doesn't even have tweeters. Coding the ASD off is a minor trade off compared to how much better the sound system is going to be...
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      09-21-2015, 02:06 PM   #8
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Note that in the reviews Technic said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
By the way, replacing the OEM amp with any aftermarket amp/DSP will influence the volume level of the ASD.
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      09-21-2015, 03:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson@BimmerTech View Post
The 2 series HIFI system is the worst OEM system BMW sells. I created a tune for it last week and couldn't believe that it doesn't even have tweeters. Coding the ASD off is a minor trade off compared to how much better the sound system is going to be...
No argument with you there. Heck; it's the worst OEM system I've ever had in a new car, period -- and the ASD implementation is just one aspect of that.

However, for those of us who have not coded our cars and/or who do not have ready access to a PC or Windows (I use Apple exclusively; many reasons for that), this system is not PnP.

For reference: I ran into the same issue when shopping for a good mid-fi A/V receiver for home use. Generally, the best room-correction software is made by Anthem, a Canadian company that builds KILLER high-end amplifiers. One of its A/V receivers was No. 1 on my shopping list until I learned that the software was only for Windows. Sure, the receiver would've worked fine without running the software. But it matters in A/V applications -- and I don't have an ASD drone to deal with there as well.
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Last edited by Viffermike; 09-21-2015 at 03:39 PM..
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      09-21-2015, 04:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
No argument with you there. Heck; it's the worst OEM system I've ever had in a new car, period -- and the ASD implementation is just one aspect of that.

However, for those of us who have not coded our cars and/or who do not have ready access to a PC or Windows (I use Apple exclusively; many reasons for that), this system is not PnP.

For reference: I ran into the same issue when shopping for a good mid-fi A/V receiver for home use. Generally, the best room-correction software is made by Anthem, a Canadian company that builds KILLER high-end amplifiers. One of its A/V receivers was No. 1 on my shopping list until I learned that the software was only for Windows. Sure, the receiver would've worked fine without running the software. But it matters in A/V applications -- and I don't have an ASD drone to deal with there as well.
I'm also an Apple user, more like a fanboy but i do realize that we live in a Windows world. I bought an used $75 laptop just to create tuning files at the shop and a have Parallels installed on my Imac and Macbook...I guess you really have an issue with Windows. I'm a professional car audio competitor, It doesn't get any easier than this when it to installing an amp in a car...This is how PNP as it will ever get in installing an aftermarket system...
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      09-21-2015, 04:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson@BimmerTech View Post
I'm also an Apple user, more like a fanboy but i do realize that we live in a Windows world. I bought an used $75 laptop just to create tuning files at the shop and a have Parallels installed on my Imac and Macbook...I guess you really have an issue with Windows. I'm a professional car audio competitor, It doesn't get any easier than this when it to installing an amp in a car...This is how PNP as it will ever get in installing an aftermarket system...
Well, it's only partially about the Windows thing -- and, as an Apple fanboy, I'm sure you realize that we live in a far less 'Windows' world than we did, say, five years ago. And that's part of the rub: the software required (both E-Sys for coding and the Fischer DSP for the amp) is likely based on an older language that simply can't be run on OS X. Sure I can go buy a $100 laptop with Windows XP and rock this, or use Boot Camp or a Windows partition on one of my Macs ...

... But that brings me to what is really my main beef. I work in marketing, and I have an issue with something being marketed as PnP when to operate it requires a quasi-legal modification to a vehicle that only knowledgable enthusiasts will know about, much less attempt.

Let's just say that this isn't gonna be something Crutchfield ever puts in its catalog. Just sayin'.
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      09-21-2015, 05:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Well, it's only partially about the Windows thing -- and, as an Apple fanboy, I'm sure you realize that we live in a far less 'Windows' world than we did, say, five years ago. And that's part of the rub: the software required (both E-Sys for coding and the Fischer DSP for the amp) is likely based on an older language that simply can't be run on OS X. Sure I can go buy a $100 laptop with Windows XP and rock this, or use Boot Camp or a Windows partition on one of my Macs ...

... But that brings me to what is really my main beef. I work in marketing, and I have an issue with something being marketed as PnP when to operate it requires a quasi-legal modification to a vehicle that only knowledgable enthusiasts will know about, much less attempt.

Let's just say that this isn't gonna be something Crutchfield ever puts in its catalog. Just sayin'.
You're wrong my friend Crutchfield and Audiotec Fisher sells the basic amp where this is based from and 3 things things it doesnt have a PNP harness, custom mounting bracket and a professional model specific tune. A;so ours has modified internals exclusively for the HIFI system....

Here's Crutchfield version...

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_975PP82...&awmt=p&awnw=g



and here's me working on the custom bracket for it on a 228i





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      09-21-2015, 06:02 PM   #13
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Nelson@BimmerTech You have an interesting way of trying to sell these amps by basically saying everything else sucks and yours is the only way. There is a point to be made regarding plug and play, which yours is not, due to having to code out ASD. This is not something that everyone has access to, and quite frankly might not be something everyone wants to get rid of.

I will be upgrading my speakers. I was considering your amp but I don't really like the way you respond to a healthy discussion (with honest opinions) around your product.
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      09-21-2015, 06:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crbalch View Post
Nelson@BimmerTech You have an interesting way of trying to sell these amps by basically saying everything else sucks and yours is the only way. There is a point to be made regarding plug and play, which yours is not, due to having to code out ASD. This is not something that everyone has access to, and quite frankly might not be something everyone wants to get rid of.

I will be upgrading my speakers. I was considering your amp but I don't really like the way you respond to a healthy discussion (with honest opinions) around your product.
I'm sorry but when did i say everything else suck?


As far as i know we are having a healthy discussion and i'm just pointing out the differences. To be honest i'm not really a good salesman, thats why i let the reviews do the talking. I'm a hardcore car audio enthusiast first so my passion for it my rub you off incorrectly. Here's my build log http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...ual-v-2-a.html
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      09-21-2015, 07:36 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by crbalch View Post
Nelson@BimmerTech There is a point to be made regarding plug and play, which yours is not, due to having to code out ASD.
Coding ASD off is not unique to this amp, if you read some of the other threads, they have noted the ASD gets loud as well.

BTW coding is very easy, all it takes is a laptop and a $20 cable. Just follow the guide in the coding forum (check Pikachu's thread) and you can download all the software etc. you need. The cheat sheets are awesome. It was the first time I've coded, but I found it to be a piece of cake.
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      09-21-2015, 07:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson@BimmerTech View Post
The 2 series HIFI system is the worst OEM system BMW sells. I created a tune for it last week and couldn't believe that it doesn't even have tweeters. Coding the ASD off is a minor trade off compared to how much better the sound system is going to be...
I can vouch for this. The F22 system is terrible and I am only coming from an E82 with an Alpine hifi kit.

I installed the tweeters and the Focal IFBMW-S kit as I couldn't stand the sound. It is much improved with just the upgraded speakers, but the oem amp is very lacking in power and can't drive the speakers properly.
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      09-21-2015, 09:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightelf View Post
Coding ASD off is not unique to this amp, if you read some of the other threads, they have noted the ASD gets loud as well.

BTW coding is very easy, all it takes is a laptop and a $20 cable. Just follow the guide in the coding forum (check Pikachu's thread) and you can download all the software etc. you need. The cheat sheets are awesome. It was the first time I've coded, but I found it to be a piece of cake.
I'm already setup to code for the new car and have previously done it on my 135i. For me, its not a matter of difficulty, its more that I am in the minority that like ASD, and don't want to sacrifice it. I will spend the $150 on the Focal speaker upgrade, then call it a day most likely. Hard for me to justify the $800 amp only upgrade while also losing ASD.

If I find the system to be so terrible after the speaker upgrade, I may look to an amp.
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      09-21-2015, 10:21 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by crbalch View Post
I'm already setup to code for the new car and have previously done it on my 135i. For me, its not a matter of difficulty, its more that I am in the minority that like ASD, and don't want to sacrifice it. I will spend the $150 on the Focal speaker upgrade, then call it a day most likely. Hard for me to justify the $800 amp only upgrade while also losing ASD.

If I find the system to be so terrible after the speaker upgrade, I may look to an amp.
I upgraded the speakers (with added tweeters) and can say that there is a good improvement. The downside is that the stock amp is lacking in power and you will find the sound to be softer and lacking bass. I can understand about the ASD though. If you like it then you shouldn't upgrade the amp (I have an aftermarket exhaust). Although the group buy price is not $800, so if you buy later you may miss out on the discount. Tough decision
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      09-22-2015, 10:33 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson@BimmerTech View Post
I'm sorry but when did i say everything else suck?

As far as i know we are having a healthy discussion and i'm just pointing out the differences. To be honest i'm not really a good salesman, thats why i let the reviews do the talking. I'm a hardcore car audio enthusiast first so my passion for it my rub you off incorrectly.
I totally understand, Nelson. We're all passionate about something. In business and marketing, though, one must mitigate passion with practicality and truthfulness. That's why there are laws against false advertising, for starters -- and while calling this product PnP when, in fact, it is not (in this case) isn't false advertising on its legal face, it is borderline. (From another angle: There's a reason why Crutchfield doesn't itemize individual make/model compatibility with the stock version of this amp. That reason is the very same as the one I'm discussing here.)

Also: You can 'let the reviews do the talking' only to a point. It's not wise to let consumer feedback establish a product so strongly for a number of reasons, the least of which is acknowledgment of a product's intended capabilities and applications. The ASD issue is something that affects the vast majority of BMW models your product is intended for; to not acknowledge it in an official capacity amounts to shady marketing and product positioning at a minimum, as explained above. Because coding is frowned upon (and recently made harder to do) by the maker of the vehicle this product is intended for -- no matter how easy it may be -- I'm afraid I feel it's your company's responsibility to acknowledge the issue by repositioning the PnP claim and disclaiming both the ASD/coding issue and the responsibility for issues that may arise from coding the car.

Finally: nearly any aftermarket amp, including the JL Audio 600/6, will make ASD louder at stock settings; this has been established as well. Turning gain down on the rear speaker channels to its minimum mostly alleviates the issue, so there is a workaround. No, it's not perfect -- but few aftermarket car stereo applications in this day and age are.
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      09-22-2015, 12:42 PM   #20
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Nelson@BimmerTech Is there a way you can tune your amp to play nice with the ASD as Viffermike pointed out? If so, this would solve your PnP issue.
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      09-22-2015, 02:17 PM   #21
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Why does an amp swap make ASD louder?
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      09-22-2015, 02:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Why does an amp swap make ASD louder?
Technically I am unsure, but I have to assume that it has something to do with the HiFi/HK amp being tuned to handle the ASD frequencies differently. When passing the ASD through a 3rd party amp, it cannot discern what is ASD and what is music or sounds. In turn, the ASD system comes through as being much louder.

If Bimmertech was able to create a tune for the amp to use in conjunction with ASD (which I have to assume is possible), it would make for a true PnP solution, one in which I would have interest in.
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