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      10-11-2014, 07:31 PM   #1
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Exclamation BMW 2 Series GT Gran Turismo preview

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Here is the look of the 2 Series Gran Turismo from Autobild.

The 2er GT is the next logical step and previews the potential for the 2er GT as well as an exclusive look for the new Gran Turismo models of the 5er and the 3er, which will be more sleeker than today's models but still maintain the current GT's attributes.

The more angular appearance forgoes today's more rounded look for a more cohesive coupe look. Body sculpture will be angular and chiseled to provide a modern and fresh look with exceptional stand out details.

Current GT traits remains such as the 5er with its first class cabin and semi-command seating position. The car has a slight increase due to being accommodated on the 5er Li model from China. This allows for a more sleeker rear end. The rear lights will be placed higher and they are more stretched across the rear but reduced in height , a trait of upcoming BMW models.

The 5er GT will be shown as a new Concept car and will demonstrate one of the benefits of the BMW and Toyota relationship. A new Fuel Cell, for increased Efficiency.
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      10-11-2014, 07:40 PM   #2
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Looks...not bad.
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      10-11-2014, 09:49 PM   #3
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They should rather focus on a 2er Gran Coupe
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      10-11-2014, 09:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Autobild prepares the world for the BMW 2er Gran Turismo.
Another variant planned to expand the 2er line.
All these family-oriented models should have been called 1 Series -something instead of 2 Series -something... Just like the Renault Scenic is derived from the Mégane and the Citroën Picasso from the C4. Calling these variants 2 Series is a total nonsense as regards the BMW nomenclature. What a shame to make the 1er range limited and instead let the 2er range grow when it should have been quite the opposite.
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      10-12-2014, 04:15 AM   #5
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I'd definitely buy a 4 door 2 series if it was available...I have small kids, and 4 doors would be much appreciated!!!
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      10-12-2014, 04:54 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by advantage20 View Post
All these family-oriented models should have been called 1 Series -something instead of 2 Series -something... Just like the Renault Scenic is derived from the Mégane and the Citroën Picasso from the C4. Calling these variants 2 Series is a total nonsense as regards the BMW nomenclature. What a shame to make the 1er range limited and instead let the 2er range grow when it should have been quite the opposite.
Agreed, it's definitely confusing. Whilst 1 series hatch may be too different/distant from a 4-door 2 series styling, it's not the case with 3 series and 4-door 4 series. Wonder if they would offer a 4-door M2 variant?!
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      10-12-2014, 10:32 AM   #7
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It is all about the forthcoming split in priorities .

The sportier models of the 2er - Coupe , Cabrio and Gran Coupe are expected to be RWD
Whilst the practical models 1er , X1 , X1L , X2 , Active/Gran Tourer and the Gran Turismo will be FWD/xDrive.

The MINI IV will be a C - Segment car aligned with the BMW 1er Sporthatch.
The first FWD BMW 1er will be offered as a 3dr and 5dr aswell as a four door.
MINI are also considering a sedan model.

The BMW 2er Gran Turismo provides extra practicality in a sleeker , sportier coupe shape and provides continuity to the 3er and 5er GT models which will see replacements.

The BMW 2er Coupe , Cabrio and Gran Coupe are expected to be RWD biased.

The BMW Z1 Roadster and Z2 Coupe are FWD biased and aligned with the new MINI sports car in Coupe and Roadster derived from the Superleggera Concept Car.

The BMW X1 aligns with the MINI Countryman but the exclusivity of the extended wheelbase X1 will not carry over to MINI.

The MINI PACEMAN continues but aligns with the BMW X2 (Sales of the just-launched X4 are on fire and are not even at 6 months on the market yet)
The X2 will remain as a Sport Activity Coupe with the PACEMAN similar to today's car with dynamic roofline and rising glasshouse. The big change is the PACEMAN now receives 5drs but the handles are recessed into the rear pillars allowing a flush coupe like appearance.

The BMW 2er Active Tourer/Gran Tourer and MINI Clubman allow practicality and will be available with xDrive and All4. The Gran Tourer will premiere in Geneva in March 2015 with the MINI Clubman in Frankfurt the following September.

You might have noticed that the MINI IV now becomes a C-Segment car. But it is all part of the strategy to expand MINI into another segment allowing the available space for a sub-city small car concept as initially previewed by the MINI Rocketman Concept car. Although it will use ideas from the concept its execution will be somewhat different.

The difficulty is in finding a suitable architecture for the car as both UKL and the CFRP architecture showcased on the initial concept are not suitable and expensive on such a small car. New architecture has been sought and is currently in discussion to develop a suitable structure that is suitable and also allow electrification as well as chassis modifications for inevitable Cooper S models. We won't see results until near the end of the decade but the sub-city MINI should be in place around the launch of the MINI IV.

Its the grand plan to increase sales and take advantage of the continuous growth of the compact segment across the global spectrum.

The crowning result will be the all-electric BMWi1 city car expected at the turn of the decade. Built and developed using the BMWi philosophy.
This vehicle will owe much to the initial Rocketman concept but is not viable for use in a MINI.
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      10-12-2014, 02:38 PM   #8
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So... I'm now lost again. I thought the 1, 3, 5 series were 4 doors, and the 2, 4, 6, 8 are 2 doors.

Why have a 1 and 2 series 4 door?
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      10-12-2014, 06:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
It is all about the forthcoming split in priorities .

The sportier models of the 2er - Coupe , Cabrio and Gran Coupe are expected to be RWD
Whilst the practical models 1er , X1 , X1L , X2 , Active/Gran Tourer and the Gran Turismo will be FWD/xDrive.

The MINI IV will be a C - Segment car aligned with the BMW 1er Sporthatch.
The first FWD BMW 1er will be offered as a 3dr and 5dr aswell as a four door.
MINI are also considering a sedan model.

The BMW 2er Gran Turismo provides extra practicality in a sleeker , sportier coupe shape and provides continuity to the 3er and 5er GT models which will see replacements...........
Thanks Scott for sharing. Good overview.
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      10-12-2014, 06:48 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by millifoo View Post
So... I'm now lost again. I thought the 1, 3, 5 series were 4 doors, and the 2, 4, 6, 8 are 2 doors.

Why have a 1 and 2 series 4 door?
From what Scott has said, appears odd v even models no longer drive BMW priorities but FWD/AWD and BMW/Mini cross sharing strategies have evolved.

Looking on the bright side, BMW may decide to revert back to the traditional M3 coupe...
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      10-13-2014, 08:47 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millifoo View Post
So... I'm now lost again. I thought the 1, 3, 5 series were 4 doors, and the 2, 4, 6, 8 are 2 doors.

Why have a 1 and 2 series 4 door?
There is no hard and fast rule, but generally Speaking:-

Saloon, Tourer, GT, LWB = Odd
Coupe, Convertible, Gran Coupe = Even

Or, more broadly, the more practical variants are Odd, the more stylish variants are Even.

Where it falls down, is BMW's decision to call the Active Tourer a 2 Series. Other than positioning it against the B-Klasse, I really don't understand why they did this.

A 4 door 1 series will be more practical (probably only from a rear passenger and luggage capacity point of view), whilst the 4 door 2 series (Gran Coupe), will be sleeker, more 'dynamic' and more stylish.
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      10-13-2014, 12:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaffa12 View Post
From what Scott has said, appears odd v even models no longer drive BMW priorities ....
This is a particularly hilarious move since Audi has been on the odds/evens delineation for years. BMW seemed to move this way, but now it all seems very confusing.

Things I don't get:
335i v. 435 GT - Why?
X6 & X4 - I just don't get it. Lacks sedan performance and almost no utility.
Lack of awesome wagons - BMW seems to leave this up to Audi and MB. Even the 3 series wagon only comes in 28i form.
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      10-13-2014, 04:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy6698 View Post
This is a particularly hilarious move since Audi has been on the odds/evens delineation for years. BMW seemed to move this way, but now it all seems very confusing.

Things I don't get:
335i v. 435 GT - Why?
X6 & X4 - I just don't get it. Lacks sedan performance and almost no utility.
Lack of awesome wagons - BMW seems to leave this up to Audi and MB. Even the 3 series wagon only comes in 28i form.
Honestly, I despair...

There is no 435i GT, there is a 335i GT, and there is a 435i Gran Coupe... You ask Why.. I ask Why Not? What is your point exactly.. you're afraid of choice...? What is so hard to understand?

X6 & X4, done to death... "Almost no Utility" why do they have to excel in utility? What don't you understand about people wanting some of the characteristics of a cross over, but not need the flat back shape?? Is it that hard to comprehend?

Lack of Awesome wagons?...'Muricans won't buy enough of them, blame your narrow minded countrymen.
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      10-13-2014, 07:31 PM   #14
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Hmm, interesting.. In the rendering it looks a lot like a 4Series GT. Though given the current size of the 2, it might remind me more of the E87
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      10-13-2014, 10:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matski View Post
Honestly, I despair...

There is no 435i GT, there is a 335i GT, and there is a 435i Gran Coupe... You ask Why.. I ask Why Not? What is your point exactly.. you're afraid of choice...? What is so hard to understand?

X6 & X4, done to death... "Almost no Utility" why do they have to excel in utility? What don't you understand about people wanting some of the characteristics of a cross over, but not need the flat back shape?? Is it that hard to comprehend?

Lack of Awesome wagons?...'Muricans won't buy enough of them, blame your narrow minded countrymen.
I have no issue with choice, but with dilution of brand. BMW is riding a fine line between being the BMW the current owners know and the mass market diluted BMW of the future. The same concern most have with the new FWD models and below 3-series slotting. Meanwhile, other brands like Porsche are unashamedly moving in the opposite direction - refusing to dilute or lower the brand for easier access of new buyers.

And the method isn't hard to understand either - if you want to move up in the global scale, you have to change something. However, unlike GM, Ford, and others, BMW doesn't have a lower, mainstream brand (other than Mini) to increase global consumption. So they are left with their only brand to do so, the Roundel. And the GT versus Gran Coupe denotes the confusing methodology being employed to note differences in models in the line up.

As for X4/X6 - I know they are love/hate vehicles. Those who own em, love em for the reason they bought them (whatever their reasons are). I just stated that I don't get them. For the price, there are so many other vehicles with more power, more style, more utility, etc etc, even in the BMW line up. But they appeal somewhere to someone. I do think that the fact that other auto-makers have not followed suit shows something lacking in market research. Either BMW knows something that no other maker does, or after researching, all the other automakers did not feel there was enough return on the investment to bother.

And I do blame my "narrow-minded countrymen" for the lack of wagon or estate options in the US. The US is FAR too fascinated with the SUV when 95% of our SUVs never see off road conditions beyond a dirt/gravel lot. But now its become a size / status problem that is far too out of control. SUVs raised the need for new safety standards as the vehicles are not driven the way they were intended. But this is a completely different discussion.
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      10-14-2014, 10:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy6698 View Post
I have no issue with choice, but with dilution of brand. BMW is riding a fine line between being the BMW the current owners know and the mass market diluted BMW of the future.
The current BMW is the diluted BMW of the future. People bitched about dilution when the X5 was launched, then the X3, and the 1 series. BMW has to respond to the market movements, not the ideals of enthusiasts. And sorry, I know it sounds like I rag on Americans a lot, but the idea of the "current owner" in America simply doesn't represent the global demand. BMW is seen as a premium brand possibly more by people in the US than anywhere else, but as far as I can tell, they are more obtainable in the US than anywhere else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy6698 View Post
The same concern most have with the new FWD models and below 3-series slotting.
Peoples concerns over front wheel drive seem to be more reactionary than based on any real reason. I'll admit it will be a big shame if the 1 series hatches go FWD, but this doesn't spell the end of the brand as we know it... and let's be honest, enough people eschew RWD for xDrive already - and it's not like FWD is actually that bad... plenty of FWD cars handle quite well, and most of BMW's competition has been utilising FWD for their models for decades, whilst at the same time closing the gap in handling dynamics on BMW.

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Originally Posted by hoppy6698 View Post
Meanwhile, other brands like Porsche are unashamedly moving in the opposite direction - refusing to dilute or lower the brand for easier access of new buyers.
Porsche introduced the Boxster and Cayman to make the brand more accessible, granted they didn't detract from what the company was about, they did that with the Panamera, and the Cayenne... which they've now introduced a more affordable version of (the Macan), and persistent rumours of the Pa-jun to make Porsche more affordable to 5 series owners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy6698 View Post
And the method isn't hard to understand either - if you want to move up in the global scale, you have to change something. However, unlike GM, Ford, and others, BMW doesn't have a lower, mainstream brand (other than Mini) to increase global consumption. So they are left with their only brand to do so, the Roundel.
Interesting that you speak of Ford and GM, but truth be told, the biggest issue for BMW is the Volkswagen group. The breadth and scope of the available platforms, technology and brands mean VW can do pretty much whatever they want - for BMW this poses a problem because of Audi. Audi can easily afford the R8, and rumoured hypercar, because of intercompany relations (Porshce, Lambo even Bugatti), they can also ensure they are profitable at the same time with the A1 and A3 because of the Polo, Golf, Jetta etc. For BMW to compete with this they have to take the same opportunity with MINI, and that means platform sharing, and yes... front wheel drive. VW is a behemoth, that's grown to the size it did because of state protection of it's shares... BMW are not so fortunate, and it's not a surprise BMW have teamed with Toyota because, despite brand perceptions, Toyota have been about the only company in the past sound enough to take on VW's might.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy6698 View Post
And the GT versus Gran Coupe denotes the confusing methodology being employed to note differences in models in the line up.
Perhaps the naming strategy could be clearer (GTvsGC), but I believe there is a sound basis for both GT's and Gran Coupes to exist, and that they appeal to different demographics. On paper it is hard to explain why both exists.. but if you are a potential buyer and visit a dealership with your own unique set of wants and needs, I believe the differences are crystal clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy6698 View Post
As for X4/X6 - I know they are love/hate vehicles. Those who own em, love em for the reason they bought them (whatever their reasons are). I just stated that I don't get them. For the price, there are so many other vehicles with more power, more style, more utility, etc etc, even in the BMW line up. But they appeal somewhere to someone. I do think that the fact that other auto-makers have not followed suit shows something lacking in market research. Either BMW knows something that no other maker does, or after researching, all the other automakers did not feel there was enough return on the investment to bother.
Okay, fine, if you don't like them then I have no problem with that. But they have sold, nearly 250,000 of them... and the X4 is bound to add to that tally very quickly. And just as a note, the smaller engined X4's weight LESS than the M4 convertible.... I've never understood the appeal behind ragtops at all... but yet their purpose is never questioned as heavily.

If you require competing models to validate a decision, then I'd point you towards the Mercedes MLC and the Audi Q6/Q8

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy6698 View Post
And I do blame my "narrow-minded countrymen" for the lack of wagon or estate options in the US. The US is FAR too fascinated with the SUV when 95% of our SUVs never see off road conditions beyond a dirt/gravel lot. But now its become a size / status problem that is far too out of control. SUVs raised the need for new safety standards as the vehicles are not driven the way they were intended. But this is a completely different discussion.
I think this is very true, I think to a point it's true in a lot of places, but the premium people in some countries end up paying to drive/own them is a good deterrent.
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      10-14-2014, 06:01 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by hoppy6698
"As for X4/X6 - I know they are love/hate vehicles. Those who own em, love em for the reason they bought them (whatever their reasons are). I just stated that I don't get them. For the price, there are so many other vehicles with more power, more style, more utility, etc etc, even in the BMW line up. But they appeal somewhere to someone. I do think that the fact that other auto-makers have not followed suit shows something lacking in market research. Either BMW knows something that no other maker does, or after researching, all the other automakers did not feel there was enough return on the investment to bother."

The X6 was at first an unknown quantity and was initially expected to have its largest customer base in the USA. It is not.
Its largest customer base is in China followed by the Middle East,Russia,Brasil and then the USA. It has been a popular segment and has exceeded its initial sales target for a low volume vehicle. And now it moves into its second generation with not even one competitor at this time.

They are coming though, because it represents growth for these important markets. Mercedes are first up but so will Audi and yes even Porsche are planning a Cayenne Coupe. As for the X4 since its market introduction sales are on fire , some markets and I mean key strategic markets for this model have already sold their 2014 allocation. That is important and showcase that the competition will indeed follow through with an X4 rival possibly when BMW introduce the smaller X2 model. Which will no doubt continue the cycle.

A flagship X8 is not entirely out of the question.


"I have no issue with choice, but with dilution of brand. BMW is riding a fine line between being the BMW the current owners know and the mass market diluted BMW of the future. The same concern most have with the new FWD models and below 3-series slotting. Meanwhile, other brands like Porsche are unashamedly moving in the opposite direction - refusing to dilute or lower the brand for easier access of new buyers."

Porsche are "controlled" by VAG and unfortunately cannot sneeze without catching a cold. So as VAG will expand their brands to accommodate new models and in order to make development and production profitable then you will see additional models from the one platform and that will also include Porsche.

I can tell you now due to industry insiders that the next Cayenne gets an X6 Coupe rival as will eventually the Macan.
It is already common knowledge about the smaller Panamera which we will see before the end of the decade. And given the importance of the compact segment do not rule out a smaller SUV below the Macan or indeed a 3er rival eventually.
I had a 500€ bet that we would see the Macan and I have another regarding the smaller SUV.

Many seen to think there is a "holier than thou image" for manufacturers who would not go down the route of expansion and tend to highlight and single out BMW for doing so. But expansion brings in money to supplement existing and future products as does volume.

Manufacturers will still make the cars that customers want but in order to achieve further progress and a competitive edge in innovation then they have to supplement with other models.

Everybody else is changing because they are adapting to the change and progression of the market and the customer. Which is why you will see expansion and more cross-pollination between segments.
Those that ignore it are in danger.

It is inevitable.
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      10-14-2014, 09:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Agreed, it's definitely confusing. Whilst 1 series hatch may be too different/distant from a 4-door 2 series styling, it's not the case with 3 series and 4-door 4 series. Wonder if they would offer a 4-door M2 variant?!
I agree all these new models are just ridiculous. Personally I dont think any 4 door version of the 2 is necessary. To me its supposed to be BMWs small car. That being said I would love to be in an M4 GC as my next car. The M6 GC is gorgeous and I find the 4 version to be pretty close in terms of styling. Can anyone confirm a M4GC, so I can start plotting?
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      10-14-2014, 09:57 PM   #19
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As good as VW is in the rest of the world they suck in the US. The hottest market in 6-7 years and VW is declining in sales in the US. The cars are so boring looking and their SUV line up is pitiful in the US.
Over 50% of Porsche sales were generated by the Cayenne in 2013 so the same people bitching about BMW expanding the brand into different markets don't understand the competition. Porsche wouldn't be anything without their SUV sales, same for BMW. I remember everyone bitching when the X5 was introduced back in 2000. You can argue that BMW SUV's are better than their cars now.
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      10-15-2014, 04:45 AM   #20
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Porsche wouldn't be anything without their SUV sales, same for BMW.
Can I have some of what you're smoking?
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      10-20-2014, 10:23 AM   #21
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Porsche are "controlled" by VAG and unfortunately cannot sneeze without catching a cold. So as VAG will expand their brands to accommodate new models and in order to make development and production profitable then you will see additional models from the one platform and that will also include Porsche.

I can tell you now due to industry insiders that the next Cayenne gets an X6 Coupe rival as will eventually the Macan.
It is already common knowledge about the smaller Panamera which we will see before the end of the decade. And given the importance of the compact segment do not rule out a smaller SUV below the Macan or indeed a 3er rival eventually.
I had a 500€ bet that we would see the Macan and I have another regarding the smaller SUV.
I would take both of those bets, too. I would also take a bet that with the introduction of more entry-level Porsche models based off the one VAG platform that we'll see some sales support incentives from them.
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      10-20-2014, 10:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Here is the look of the 2er Gran Turismo from Autobild.

Think of it as a window to the next series of Gran Turismo models which will begin with the 5er Gran Turismo which will be more sleeker than today's models but still maintain the current GT's attributes.

The 2er GT is the next logical step.
Not bad, but make mine a 3dr GT! That would be perfect for me, seeing as my 2-series is going to replace a Fiat Abarth.
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also '17 VW GTI Sport, '95 Land Rover Discovery, '74 Triumph Spitfire
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