[DVC]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

The mating face on the subframe is steel so I went with SS spacers so as the interface to oem bush is the same.

Yeah, good point...
I can't seem to be able to find a good source for SS spacers that meet our specs though

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by DVC

I can't seem to be able to find a good source for SS spacers that meet our specs though

yup - I had mine made bespoke to my specs via an ebay seller here in th UK. Painless enough.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

yup - I had mine made bespoke to my specs via an ebay seller here in th UK. Painless enough.

Anyone have a line on stainless spacers here in the US?

[quenotte]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

yup - I had mine made bespoke to my specs via an ebay seller here in th UK. Painless enough.

Ordered from same UK seller.

Installed TS with those spacers last Monday. Perfect fit.

Did you installed your TS BP?

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by quenotte

Ordered from same UK seller.

Installed TS with those spacers last Monday. Perfect fit.

Did you installed your TS BP?

Not yet. No time but will get these on soon.

[allthatisntnow]

[quenotte]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Not yet. No time but will get these on soon.

Just had time last Monday. Have the material since 3 months...

Some install photos:

[Bee Pee]

How long did it take and how was the tracking effected after TS installed ?

[allthatisntnow]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

How long did it take and how was the tracking effected after TS installed ?

I got mine installed professionally, but ill chime in with my findings in case they are a little useful to you - LCA, TS and Vorshlag camber plates installed together (A decision i don't regret as they said it was a pita fitting, but got there in the end). Im imagining the camber plates were the main hold up on this front though as they've managed to reinstall the weather caps with them set, which i was very impressed with considering they aren't meant to go back on. Looks very stealth and OEM glancing under the bonnet. Probably allow a good couple of hours if you're just putting TS's on, but milage may vary - my inboard spacers were 12.7mm so I'm sure they needed filing down.

Before alignment (parts fitted) was:

Left Front:

-1.32 camber
7.39 caster
0.04 toe in

Right Front:

-1.29 camber
7.46 caster
0.00 toe

So definitely needs an alignment after fitting parts. As i say, all the bits went on in one go so can't specifically attribute what the TS affects the most, but the synergy is pretty darn good for driving. Steering feel is more uniform, doesn't feel heavier but you do get a better impression of where the wheels are and less squirm under braking (attributing the latter more to alignment though).

As close to my requested alignment as possible was:

Left Front:

-2.00 camber
7.39 caster
0.06 toe in

Right Front:

-2.06 camber
7.46 caster
0.05 toe in


Left Rear:

-1.52 camber
0.09 toe in

Right Rear:

-1.56 camber
0.11 toe in

Stability is great, corner grip is great, no understeer characteristics, very neutral feeling. My stock alignment must have been out for some time as it was quite hairy in certain situations. Id happily reduce some of the toe for track, but provided i don't get any major tyre scrub ill be keeping these settings for the street without a doubt.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by allthatisntnow

So definitely needs an alignment after fitting parts. As i say, all the bits went on in one go so can't specifically attribute what the TS affects the most, but the synergy is pretty darn good for driving. Steering feel is more uniform, doesn't feel heavier but you do get a better impression of where the wheels are and less squirm under braking (attributing the latter more to alignment though).


Stability is great, corner grip is great, no understeer characteristics, very neutral feeling. My stock alignment must have been out for some time as it was quite hairy in certain situations. Id happily reduce some of the toe for track, but provided i don't get any major tyre scrub ill be keeping these settings for the street without a doubt.

Good to know and thanks for taking the time to feedback.

As F8x LCA's are longer they are main reason for adjusting your alignment as your front wheels will be "toe-in" towards each other post LCA install.

F8x LCA's & TS's have firmer/less compliant bushes. TS improve stability under braking and LCAs will widen the track and increase camber. With F8x arms, front suspension geometry will stay more stable than stock [as there's much less flex] when pedalling it hard around bends etc.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

How long did it take and how was the tracking effected after TS installed ?

TS install is much easier if you remove front bumper, this is surprisingly easy.

[quenotte]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

How long did it take and how was the tracking effected after TS installed ?

One hour labour. No need to remove bumper, only the main undercarriage protection below motor and the lower corner plastic protections between bumper and wheel, where temperature sensor is located.

Then you will have access to everything.

You will have to unclip big power steering wire holder ( 2 clips, no need to cut colson, only pry gently the clip to remove the holder) to access the bolt on one side (passenger on LHD).

You will have however to tighten the screws on chassis with car in normal position

If you need it I can print you the procedure from ISTA.

Alignment was only slightly modified but was in BMW range so no issue to diy it.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by quenotte

One hour labour. No need to remove bumper, only the main undercarriage protection below motor and the lower corner plastic protections between bumper and wheel, where temperature sensor is located.

Then you will have access to everything.

You will have to unclip big power steering wire holder ( 2 clips, no need to cut colson, only pry gently the clip to remove the holder) to access the bolt on one side (passenger on LHD).

You will have however to tighten the screws on chassis with car in normal position

If you need it I can print you the procedure from ISTA.

Alignment was only slightly modified but was in BMW range so no issue to diy it.

Many thanks.

Yes please to the offer of printing out procedure from ISTA. How do you access ISTA to print EBA/install procedures?

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Many thanks.

Yes please to the offer of printing out procedure from ISTA. How do you access ISTA to print EBA/install procedures?

I have the Bentley for the f30, procedure is pretty much the same if you want photos. No the bumper does not have to be removed. Having done these 3 times, it makes it quite easy esp. with the coolers.

[quenotte]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Many thanks.

Yes please to the offer of printing out procedure from ISTA. How do you access ISTA to print EBA/install procedures?

PM sent

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by DVC

The TS bushings are aluminum, right? Any reason you went with stainless rather than aluminum for the spacers?
I was thinking if there was any wear point between the TS, spacers and mounting point, worn spacers would be the easiest/cheapest fix... As long as they don't wear to the point of failure!
What's the consensus on stainless steel versus aluminum?

One argument might be, match the original material (aluminum) but with aluminum it is hard to tell what grade you're getting. I couldn't tell by looking at an Alu part whether its 6061 or 7075 or which one would even be better. I'd guess 6061 is ideal since it has excellent corrosion resistance where as 7075 is rated as average. But then again, 7075 is rated at high strength where as 6061 is average.

My real concern here is more about the mating face of the bushing on the chassis mount. I am assuming the chassis mount is galvanized steel which is expecting a rubber bushing to rub against it, not a stainless steel or aluminum spacer. Is there a concern that over time, the spacer will first rub off the paint, then rub off the anti-rust compound and start the rusting process on the mount? That would be a SUPER PITA to fix. If you live in a place where road salting is common, the rate of corrosion could be much quicker.

This is all theorizing here. No testing has been done.

[allthatisntnow]

Originally Posted by menncars

One argument might be, match the original material (aluminum) but with aluminum it is hard to tell what grade you're getting. I couldn't tell by looking at an Alu part whether its 6061 or 7075 or which one would even be better. I'd guess 6061 is ideal since it has excellent corrosion resistance where as 7075 is rated as average. But then again, 7075 is rated at high strength where as 6061 is average.

My real concern here is more about the mating face of the bushing on the chassis mount. I am assuming the chassis mount is galvanized steel which is expecting a rubber bushing to rub against it, not a stainless steel or aluminum spacer. Is there a concern that over time, the spacer will first rub off the paint, then rub off the anti-rust compound and start the rusting process on the mount? That would be a SUPER PITA to fix. If you live in a place where road salting is common, the rate of corrosion could be much quicker.

This is all theorizing here. No testing has been done.

The question I want an answered is "Why isn't BMW offering an upgrade kit to increase front camber?" They could offer it as a fixed camber plate or 'M Performance Suspension Arm Upgrade'. It's great we can get an M aero kit, M brakes, even a full LSD on the RWD cars, but save the front tires with a bit more camber? Hell no! Have a blacked out kidney grill or carbon fibre hand brake cover. Thanks for the upgrades because I go through kidney grills and handbrake covers like windscreen washer fluid.

Who dreams up performance parts add-ons at BMW? "Hey have an LSD but but tell customers to slow down going around turns or risk killing their tires." Why do I need an LSD now if I have to slow down dramatically in turns? It's like the left and right hand don't know what they're doing.

The mating face of the bushing isn't rubberised in any way, its anodised aluminium. So it would be metal on metal even without spacers. I guess BMW doesnt offer any serious in-house upgrades because they don't want the M-performance range overlapping with the M range.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by allthatisntnow

The mating face of the bushing isn't rubberised in any way, its anodised aluminium. So it would be metal on metal even without spacers. I guess BMW doesnt offer any serious in-house upgrades because they don't want the M-performance range overlapping with the M range.

Then for an ideal spacer, same material (assume anodized alu 6061) and same OD. Was it determined the OD of the spacers was 37.5mm (~1.5 inches)?

Did anyone figure the smallest wheel size? I ask since I run the smallest radius wheel for winter tires.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by m3cmm

I have the Dinan monoball kit. Any chance this will fit with the F8x TS?

I'm going to assume not given they have a different part for the F8x, but maybe just different spacers?

The F22 kit has 5 bolts.

F8x - http://www.dinancars.com/product/d28...ries&mid=1178/

F22 - http://www.dinancars.com/product/d28...ries&mid=1183/

Interesting question... I was thinking about doing both the M3 Tension Struts and the Dinan Monoball kit. If the OD/width of monoball kits are the same for the F22/F30 and the F8x, then perhaps the F22/F30 monoball kit paired with the F8x TS is the way to go...Dinan would supply the correct spacers to fit our cars.

[allthatisntnow]

Originally Posted by menncars

Then for an ideal spacer, same material (assume anodized alu 6061) and same OD. Was it determined the OD of the spacers was 37.5mm (~1.5 inches)?

Did anyone figure the smallest wheel size? I ask since I run the smallest radius wheel for winter tires.

You can extend the bushing material (Al) or subframe material (steel) with the spacers, it'll make little difference whichever you pick as the two will be meeting at some point. 1.5" od will make the spacer mating face marginally bigger than that of the TS so would be ideal.



The wheel and tyres subsection would be the best stop for the latter question, but i know that, in terms of diameter, people have fitted the 17" version of the BBS SR as winter wheels without issue. Milage may vary with some 17" designs though as some of the barrels do hit the caliper.

[casualDIYer]

I was leaning toward this upgrade but when discussing it with a friend he noted that with snow on the ground, having the wheel at zero camber is ideal as it provides the tire tread with more contact with the ground.

Seems like adjustable camber plates might have an advantage in the ability to go from a summer to winter config.

Is added camber a real issue in snowy driving?

[DVC]

Originally Posted by menncars

Is added camber a real issue in snowy driving?

No... Especially not on a RWD car.