[Zooks527]

I brought my car in to the dealer for an in-warranty oil change last Thursday. They said the change might take most of the day, as there was a warranty "software recall" that needed to be performed per BMW. Didn't seem like a problem to me, so I instructed them to go ahead.

I got a call mid-afternoon, stating that there was a problem with the reflash of the software and that the car would not be done that day. The SA stated that they had tried reflashing the car twice and that the amplifier in the car was not responding, specifically (quoting from his text message) that "The programming had failed halfway through and the amplifier will not encode". At that time, they were planning to order a new amp.

He also said the car was not driveable, as the failed reflash stopped at a point where the engine wouldn't start. I told him that I had an aftermarket amp (the Bimmertech unit) and that I could bring him the OEM amp to get by the problem. I drove the OEM amp out to the dealer, pulled the trunk liner, and plugged the OEM amp into the car's harness. Unfortunately, I forgot that I had the Technic ASD removal harness in place, and left it there.

I got a call the next afternoon that the car had taken the flash and was running, but that the parking sensors were not operating correctly. The technician thought it was related to my radar detector being hardwired to what he thought was a mirror tap, but that issue went away when I told them it went back to the lighter circuit. I did tell them about the ASD harness and offered to come by and remove it. They said they could do that themselves.

Unfortunately, it was Friday afternoon at that point, so my car was going to need to stay over the weekend. They did give me a 428i Gran Coupe with all the toys for the weekend. I thought it felt too large, but my wife loved it.

I picked the car back up on Monday, with everything working properly. Details on what I saw coming from the reflash are available here: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1260240. They left the car's wiring stock, as we all agreed that it would be better for me to move the wiring back away from the stock configuration instead of the dealer.

So, one thing is completely clear: the Bimmertech amp (for that matter, any aftermarket amp that doesn't give the correct responses to the ECU programming system) is incompatible with the dealer reflash process. It was a clean "if connected the reflash fails / if disconnected the reflash runs" test, with the flash procedure explicitly listing the amp as the cause of the failure. That notwithstanding, I still prefer the Bimmertech amp in place, and would still go forward with the purchase if I hadn't already done so. I had the radio in the car on for the ride back to my office as well as when as I pulled the trunk liner out to do the reconnect (the Bimmertech amp was still mounted in the car) and there was a massive improvement in sound after I switched amps and plugged the Bimmertech back in.

To my mind, it's well worth the time it will take to reverse it should further ECU work on the car be needed. I'll just need to find out ahead of time if any of that type of work is needed, and do the switch before bringing it in.

I don't think the ASD harness issue is as clear. It may have been the harness or it may have been a problem with the flash itself that just needed another try, but was attributed to the harness as they were looking for some external cause for the problem. I put this in the "remains to be seen" category.

At the end, the dealer was very good about it. I got a loaner car and no additional charges for the work. We both chalked it up as a learning experience.

[selmeralto]

What a nightmare, Zooks. I'll be interested to see what further clues may turn up. Sorry for your troubles.

[Viffermike]

We will definitely need a few more case studies of this before we can surmise what the culprit could be. Basically, we need:

- Someone with an aftermarket amp that's not a Bimmertech -- preferably a more traditional amp such as the JL Audio 600/6.
- Someone with the ASD harness installed on the Hi-Fi amp
- Someone with the ASD harness installed on the HK amp

Plainly the iDrive system obtains system information in two paths (upstream and downstream) from the audio system, including the amp assembly. The question is whether or not the upstream info is active (actual data being sent) or passive (voltage checks, signal paths, etc.). It's almost certainly the latter because of the nature of the wiring ... but who knows?

[Zooks527]

Originally Posted by selmeralto

What a nightmare, Zooks. I'll be interested to see what further clues may turn up. Sorry for your troubles.

Oh, no troubles now, it's all good again.

Originally Posted by Viffermike

We will definitely need a few more case studies of this before we can surmise what the culprit could be. Basically, we need:

- Someone with an aftermarket amp that's not a Bimmertech -- preferably a more traditional amp such as the JL Audio 600/6.
- Someone with the ASD harness installed on the Hi-Fi amp
- Someone with the ASD harness installed on the HK amp

And then there's the rest of the variables (with / without Nav, w/wo parking sensors, etc.). The only effects I've seen on the car are with the Nav options. Seems rational to think that's what drove the upgrade, but who knows (I don't, nor does the dealer). The upgrade could also be tied to some of the lesser seen options (DA+, PA, etc.), as I haven't seen anyone else posting about recent upgrades.

And don't you hate it when you typo the main thread title?

[selmeralto]

Originally Posted by Zooks527

And don't you hate it when you typo the main thread title?

I thought "alsol" was a new kind of fuel.

We needn't go into the other sound-alike.

[innovason]

I have my first oil change scheduled for this week. I also have a Bimmertech amp. Should I remove it and install the OEM back?

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by innovason

I have my first oil change scheduled for this week. I also have a Bimmertech amp. Should I remove it and install the OEM back?

Some advice and a request, for the good of the knowledge base: Have your dealer look into what would be scheduled to be done to your car during the visit. Have them determine that using your VIN.

If that ECU reflash is part of it (I'd mention that specifically), inquire as to why the ECU reflash is needed; get as much detail as they'll give you, and let us know in this thread. Then swap back to OEM before the visit.

(Thx in advance!!!)

[selmeralto]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Some advice and a request, for the good of the knowledge base: Have your dealer look into what would be scheduled to be done to your car during the visit. Have them determine that using your VIN.

If that ECU reflash is part of it (I'd mention that specifically), inquire as to why the ECU reflash is needed; get as much detail as they'll give you, and let us know in this thread. Then swap back to OEM before the visit.

(Thx in advance!!!)

Ditto on Viffermike's suggestion. That'd be a service to many folks here.

Also, do you have the Technic ASD harness?

[Zooks527]

Originally Posted by innovason

I have my first oil change scheduled for this week. I also have a Bimmertech amp. Should I remove it and install the OEM back?

Ditto to the two posts above. If you're getting the ECU flash, absolutely pop the OEM amp back in before they do it. If you're not getting the ECU flash, then there's no reason I can think of to go back to the OEM amp.

FWIW, I left the Bimmertech amp installed and just laid the OEM amp on top of it with the cable connected. You can even put the trunk liner back on top of it if you wish (it will fit if you don't put the plastic support tray over the amp). Total time for me to swap was under 1/2 hour each way, including removing / reinstalling the liner. In fact, the liner is just about all the time - the plug swap takes seconds. There's no need to remount the OEM amp to the mounting tray.

ECU flashes are uncommon enough that I don't see needing to swap the amps over as a deal-breaker. On my last car, I don't believe I ever needed a software update via a flash.

[innovason]

Called my advisor, and mentioned this would be my first oil change, and the aftermarket amplifier. Advisor welcomed the information, and stated that there should be no ECU programming, but would contact me if anything beyond the scope of the oil change was needed.

Thanks to everyone for the information. Keep you all posted on any issues. My oil change scheduled for this Thursday.

[Knightelf]

Took my car in for oil service earlier this week. Told them not to touch my ECU, thanks for the heads up. Although I also didn't take out my JB4 but that's another matter...

[innovason]

Just picked up my ride. No problems with the 1st oil change and the Bimmertech amp. My VIN did not have any recalls or ECU related programming.

[Fuctifeyeno]

Maybe I missed it Zooks but did you ever find out whether or not it was just the amp or the ASD bypass cable or a combination of both? I'm really starting to think this amp purchase was a bad idea for me.

[Zooks527]

Originally Posted by Fuctifeyeno

Maybe I missed it Zooks but did you ever find out whether or not it was just the amp or the ASD bypass cable or a combination of both? I'm really starting to think this amp purchase was a bad idea for me.

The amp was the prime reason the flash failed. The flashing system tried to get a response from the amp and did not. Note that I think ANY aftermarket amp will/would have had this problem.

No firm answer on the ASD harness. I think at that point I had a frustrated tech who was looking to blame SOMETHING.

I'm not really concerned overall. An ECU flash is a pretty uncommon event (this was my first in 7 years of BMW ownership), and the time it takes to swap things over (under 15 minutes each way) is nowhere near a dealbreaker. I got to listen to the stock amp driving back to my office, and it reminded me just how poor the sound was in comparison to the Bimmertech amp.

I haven't heard of anyone else needing a reflash during recent service. The software recall/upgrade campaign is likely linked to some specific combination of options (I have most of the electronic toys on mine) and will probably not show up for most cars.

[Fuctifeyeno]

Thanks for the reply Zooks, very informative as usual.

[Zooks527]

Just some details on the flash after a week of driving with it looking for changes.

I've only confimed two changes to the car, both in the Navigation / head unit operation:

• Two new features added to route preferences (toll transponder and carpool lane options)
• The car no longer loses the album cover display for songs from the harddrive if parked for between 3 minutes and 8 hours. Only a few data points on this one at the moment, but it used to be very consistent and I noticed none of it on a longer trip yesterday.

I have the impression that the A/C automatic fan programming is different as well, but that's really subjective and too integrated with outside conditions for me to be sure. There may be others that I haven't found. The electronic options listed in my signature might be why I got the flash this time when few other people seem to have.

Best regards,
George

[selmeralto]

Originally Posted by Zooks527

[*]The car no longer loses the album cover display for songs from the harddrive if parked for between 3 minutes and 8 hours. Only a few data points on this one at the moment, but it used to be very consistent and I noticed none of it on a longer trip yesterday.

Since they were apparently adjusting the audio section too bad they didn't restore the EQ while they were at it.

[Redbeemer]

Originally Posted by Zooks527

I brought my car in to the dealer for an in-warranty oil change last Thursday. They said the change might take most of the day, as there was a warranty "software recall" that needed to be performed per BMW. Didn't seem like a problem to me, so I instructed them to go ahead.

I got a call mid-afternoon, stating that there was a problem with the reflash of the software and that the car would not be done that day. The SA stated that they had tried reflashing the car twice and that the amplifier in the car was not responding, specifically (quoting from his text message) that "The programming had failed halfway through and the amplifier will not encode". At that time, they were planning to order a new amp.

He also said the car was not driveable, as the failed reflash stopped at a point where the engine wouldn't start. I told him that I had an aftermarket amp (the Bimmertech unit) and that I could bring him the OEM amp to get by the problem. I drove the OEM amp out to the dealer, pulled the trunk liner, and plugged the OEM amp into the car's harness. Unfortunately, I forgot that I had the Technic ASD removal harness in place, and left it there.

I got a call the next afternoon that the car had taken the flash and was running, but that the parking sensors were not operating correctly. The technician thought it was related to my radar detector being hardwired to what he thought was a mirror tap, but that issue went away when I told them it went back to the lighter circuit. I did tell them about the ASD harness and offered to come by and remove it. They said they could do that themselves.

Unfortunately, it was Friday afternoon at that point, so my car was going to need to stay over the weekend. They did give me a 428i Gran Coupe with all the toys for the weekend. I thought it felt too large, but my wife loved it.

I picked the car back up on Monday, with everything working properly. Details on what I saw coming from the reflash are available here: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1260240. They left the car's wiring stock, as we all agreed that it would be better for me to move the wiring back away from the stock configuration instead of the dealer.

So, one thing is completely clear: the Bimmertech amp (for that matter, any aftermarket amp that doesn't give the correct responses to the ECU programming system) is incompatible with the dealer reflash process. It was a clean "if connected the reflash fails / if disconnected the reflash runs" test, with the flash procedure explicitly listing the amp as the cause of the failure. That notwithstanding, I still prefer the Bimmertech amp in place, and would still go forward with the purchase if I hadn't already done so. I had the radio in the car on for the ride back to my office as well as when as I pulled the trunk liner out to do the reconnect (the Bimmertech amp was still mounted in the car) and there was a massive improvement in sound after I switched amps and plugged the Bimmertech back in.

To my mind, it's well worth the time it will take to reverse it should further ECU work on the car be needed. I'll just need to find out ahead of time if any of that type of work is needed, and do the switch before bringing it in.

I don't think the ASD harness issue is as clear. It may have been the harness or it may have been a problem with the flash itself that just needed another try, but was attributed to the harness as they were looking for some external cause for the problem. I put this in the "remains to be seen" category.

At the end, the dealer was very good about it. I got a loaner car and no additional charges for the work. We both chalked it up as a learning experience.

I am going through a somewhat related experience right now. Please be advised that almost ANY device that you install on your BMW that connects electrically to it, MAY cause unknown and/or seemingly unrelated issues with the car. Further, be advised that if you have ANY device installed on your car that electrically connects to your BMW, it is very likely the BMW technician will blame that for your issue and will not repair the issue under warranty until the non-OEM device is removed. My AC on my car suddenly went out last Sunday. During the repair process, they discovered I had the Bimmer-tech Backup/rearview camera installed and blamed that for my AC not working since the radio/head unit also controls the AC (they checked the AC compressor/freon, etc. and it was all OK). So I had to drive home in high heat/humidity in rush hour traffic with no AC. Next day I took it back to the place that installed the camera and they found no shorts/faults, but removed the camera module just the same. This did not restore my AC's operation, so I took the car back to BMW and after three days, they are still unable to figure out what is causing the AC problem. Not sure if I will re-install the camera once the AC is fixed, although the camera worked the entire time the AC was malfunctioning up until I had it removed. The Bimmer-tech camera works well and looks great on the big Nav. screen, but it is a hassle if/when there is any problem with the car since they can and probably will blame the issue on the aftermarket parts. Proceed at your own risk!

[//M235ixD]

Originally Posted by Zooks527

I brought my car in to the dealer for an in-warranty oil change last Thursday. They said the change might take most of the day, as there was a warranty "software recall" that needed to be performed per BMW. Didn't seem like a problem to me, so I instructed them to go ahead.

I got a call mid-afternoon, stating that there was a problem with the reflash of the software and that the car would not be done that day. The SA stated that they had tried reflashing the car twice and that the amplifier in the car was not responding, specifically (quoting from his text message) that "The programming had failed halfway through and the amplifier will not encode". At that time, they were planning to order a new amp.

He also said the car was not driveable, as the failed reflash stopped at a point where the engine wouldn't start. I told him that I had an aftermarket amp (the Bimmertech unit) and that I could bring him the OEM amp to get by the problem. I drove the OEM amp out to the dealer, pulled the trunk liner, and plugged the OEM amp into the car's harness. Unfortunately, I forgot that I had the Technic ASD removal harness in place, and left it there.

I got a call the next afternoon that the car had taken the flash and was running, but that the parking sensors were not operating correctly. The technician thought it was related to my radar detector being hardwired to what he thought was a mirror tap, but that issue went away when I told them it went back to the lighter circuit. I did tell them about the ASD harness and offered to come by and remove it. They said they could do that themselves.

Unfortunately, it was Friday afternoon at that point, so my car was going to need to stay over the weekend. They did give me a 428i Gran Coupe with all the toys for the weekend. I thought it felt too large, but my wife loved it.

I picked the car back up on Monday, with everything working properly. Details on what I saw coming from the reflash are available here: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1260240. They left the car's wiring stock, as we all agreed that it would be better for me to move the wiring back away from the stock configuration instead of the dealer.

So, one thing is completely clear: the Bimmertech amp (for that matter, any aftermarket amp that doesn't give the correct responses to the ECU programming system) is incompatible with the dealer reflash process. It was a clean "if connected the reflash fails / if disconnected the reflash runs" test, with the flash procedure explicitly listing the amp as the cause of the failure. That notwithstanding, I still prefer the Bimmertech amp in place, and would still go forward with the purchase if I hadn't already done so. I had the radio in the car on for the ride back to my office as well as when as I pulled the trunk liner out to do the reconnect (the Bimmertech amp was still mounted in the car) and there was a massive improvement in sound after I switched amps and plugged the Bimmertech back in.

To my mind, it's well worth the time it will take to reverse it should further ECU work on the car be needed. I'll just need to find out ahead of time if any of that type of work is needed, and do the switch before bringing it in.

I don't think the ASD harness issue is as clear. It may have been the harness or it may have been a problem with the flash itself that just needed another try, but was attributed to the harness as they were looking for some external cause for the problem. I put this in the "remains to be seen" category.

At the end, the dealer was very good about it. I got a loaner car and no additional charges for the work. We both chalked it up as a learning experience.

Thanks for the post!! Just had my first oil change last week. My SA at the BMW Seattle didn't say anything else is needed. I have the bummer tech amp and Technic harness installed..only difference from yours, I do not have HK. Would be interested to see if I run into the same issue you did.

[fancyfl1ght]

Originally Posted by Redbeemer

I am going through a somewhat related experience right now. Please be advised that almost ANY device that you install on your BMW that connects electrically to it, MAY cause unknown and/or seemingly unrelated issues with the car. Further, be advised that if you have ANY device installed on your car that electrically connects to your BMW, it is very likely the BMW technician will blame that for your issue and will not repair the issue under warranty until the non-OEM device is removed. My AC on my car suddenly went out last Sunday. During the repair process, they discovered I had the Bimmer-tech Backup/rearview camera installed and blamed that for my AC not working since the radio/head unit also controls the AC (they checked the AC compressor/freon, etc. and it was all OK). So I had to drive home in high heat/humidity in rush hour traffic with no AC. Next day I took it back to the place that installed the camera and they found no shorts/faults, but removed the camera module just the same. This did not restore my AC's operation, so I took the car back to BMW and after three days, they are still unable to figure out what is causing the AC problem. Not sure if I will re-install the camera once the AC is fixed, although the camera worked the entire time the AC was malfunctioning up until I had it removed. The Bimmer-tech camera works well and looks great on the big Nav. screen, but it is a hassle if/when there is any problem with the car since they can and probably will blame the issue on the aftermarket parts. Proceed at your own risk!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus...s_Warranty_Act

https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011...ermarket-parts


Read it. BMW must fix all problems. They must prove that a modification directly results in the problem. Can not use some willy nilly anecdotal forum discussions. Consumer need not prove anything but that the after market part was installed.

This is ridiculous for consumers to worry about installing aftermarket part on a car and then worrying about BMW warranty coverage.

[fancyfl1ght]

Originally Posted by Zooks527

I brought my car in to the dealer for an in-warranty oil change last Thursday. They said the change might take most of the day, as there was a warranty "software recall" that needed to be performed per BMW. Didn't seem like a problem to me, so I instructed them to go ahead.

I got a call mid-afternoon, stating that there was a problem with the reflash of the software and that the car would not be done that day. The SA stated that they had tried reflashing the car twice and that the amplifier in the car was not responding, specifically (quoting from his text message) that "The programming had failed halfway through and the amplifier will not encode". At that time, they were planning to order a new amp.

He also said the car was not driveable, as the failed reflash stopped at a point where the engine wouldn't start. I told him that I had an aftermarket amp (the Bimmertech unit) and that I could bring him the OEM amp to get by the problem. I drove the OEM amp out to the dealer, pulled the trunk liner, and plugged the OEM amp into the car's harness. Unfortunately, I forgot that I had the Technic ASD removal harness in place, and left it there.

I got a call the next afternoon that the car had taken the flash and was running, but that the parking sensors were not operating correctly. The technician thought it was related to my radar detector being hardwired to what he thought was a mirror tap, but that issue went away when I told them it went back to the lighter circuit. I did tell them about the ASD harness and offered to come by and remove it. They said they could do that themselves.

Unfortunately, it was Friday afternoon at that point, so my car was going to need to stay over the weekend. They did give me a 428i Gran Coupe with all the toys for the weekend. I thought it felt too large, but my wife loved it.

I picked the car back up on Monday, with everything working properly. Details on what I saw coming from the reflash are available here: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1260240. They left the car's wiring stock, as we all agreed that it would be better for me to move the wiring back away from the stock configuration instead of the dealer.

So, one thing is completely clear: the Bimmertech amp (for that matter, any aftermarket amp that doesn't give the correct responses to the ECU programming system) is incompatible with the dealer reflash process. It was a clean "if connected the reflash fails / if disconnected the reflash runs" test, with the flash procedure explicitly listing the amp as the cause of the failure. That notwithstanding, I still prefer the Bimmertech amp in place, and would still go forward with the purchase if I hadn't already done so. I had the radio in the car on for the ride back to my office as well as when as I pulled the trunk liner out to do the reconnect (the Bimmertech amp was still mounted in the car) and there was a massive improvement in sound after I switched amps and plugged the Bimmertech back in.

To my mind, it's well worth the time it will take to reverse it should further ECU work on the car be needed. I'll just need to find out ahead of time if any of that type of work is needed, and do the switch before bringing it in.

I don't think the ASD harness issue is as clear. It may have been the harness or it may have been a problem with the flash itself that just needed another try, but was attributed to the harness as they were looking for some external cause for the problem. I put this in the "remains to be seen" category.

At the end, the dealer was very good about it. I got a loaner car and no additional charges for the work. We both chalked it up as a learning experience.

If this is to be believed, then BMW is the problem. They know how CAN BUS works better than us mere mortals. It is really bad code on BMW part. Who the hell programs an update where a hard fail occurs after an interrogation of a firmware. This is really stupid.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by fancyfl1ght

If this is to be believed, then BMW is the problem. They know how CAN BUS works better than us mere mortals. It is really bad code on BMW part. Who the hell programs an update where a hard fail occurs after an interrogation of a firmware. This is really stupid.

It's not bad code. Far from it. It's probably purposeful on BMW's part to protect its software, ECU, CAN-BUS, and any other proprietary electronic systems it has in place. There is heavy resistance among almost all car manufacturers to keep each car's "OS" from being overridden for a variety of reasons -- primary among them being warranty claims relating to engine modifications. This is why chiptuning or ECU reflashing is going the way of the dodo in favor of a more simple 'piggyback' style overrides -- the latter doesn't alter CAN-BUS; it merely feeds it data that overrides certain ECU functions. This is also why companies like Dinan can't crack BMW's active suspension software in certain models.

Under warranty, BMW is on the hook to fix anything that an aftermarket alteration doesn't directly affect. With as complicated as iDrive and the audio system is, who but BMW can safely, and with 100 percent authority, say that an aftermarket amp with a different electronic 'signature' wouldn't affect the function of something also operated by iDrive?

Despite those articles, it's still a crapshoot precisely because only BMW knows how its electronics operates.