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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum Technical Topics N55 (M235i) Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Tuning Wagner EVO I Competiton Intercooler: Daily driven review

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      11-08-2020, 01:12 PM   #1
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Wagner EVO I Competiton Intercooler: Daily driven review

I installed my Wagner EVO I Competition IC a bit over a month ago on my 2016 M235 6MT. Other mods include the MPPK/M2 airbox, Dinantronics Stage II piggyback, HJS Euro 6 catted DP, and FTP CP. The car rountinely runs 93 octane. I've run and datalogged the old and new IC in temps ranging from around 35 degrees to 80 degrees.

Install
- Generally easy. Everything was done with the bumper in place. In addition to the large splash guard, I removed the two smaller triangular splash guards at the sides of the bumper. This was needed to get the old IC out and new IC in. I disconnected the FTP CP at both ends to give myself a little work room. Simply slide the IC in top side first, angled at around 30 degrees forward, and then work it vertically into its guides on the chassis. Everything bolted up like stock. The FTP CP connected to the IC fine, but it did require a bit of wiggling to get the c-clip to seat correctly. At first, I had a slight boost leak because the CP clip wasn't fully seated.

Daily Driveability Feel
- I quite tuned into differences mods make in my cars, especially when it comes to throttle response. The Wagner IC is both taller and thicker than the OEM IC, thus more interior volume. During normal driving, I can tell a very slight reduction in light tip-in throttle response. The reduction in throttle response is only really felt in the first second or so on tip-in. In this situation, very little boost is being made (i.e., sub 2 psi). I believe this slight reduction is the result of the extra volume of the IC filling up with low throttle air. Under moderate and full throttle, throttle response is quicker and lag reduced over the stock IC. I'm actually quite surprised at the difference. I'm loosing traction way more easily when going full throttle in 2nd at 3500-4000rpms. I usually would fractionally walk a local Stage 2 MHD 93 octane 8at M235 from 40 to 100. Now it's a clear walk with the IC.

IATs
- Data logging is done with my Torque App (backed up data from my BMW scan tool). During normal city driving with the stock IC (not considering sitting at stoplights in this instance), IATs usually was in the range of 15 and 40 degrees over ambient, the higher IATs ocurred during higher ambient temps. A bit of throttle can drop IATs by 5 to 10 degress but then it would quickly bounce up. Under full throttle 3rd gear 60mph to 105mph runs (nearly redline in 3rd), IATs would get into the 120-130 degree range on a 70 degree night, IATs slightly increasing (i.e., seeing 130 degrees) when doing a second run approximately 10 seconds after the first.

With the Wagner IC, I'm seeing 100 to 110 degree IATs on the same 3rd gear runs and temps, with temps being way more stable between the runs. Around town, I'm seeing 15 to 30 degree over ambient. When I give it throttle, the temps clear out way quicker and hold more stable for way longer. The Wagner IC also heat soaks way slower and recovers way faster over the stock IC.

I have not done testing for more than two back to back 3rd gear runs or any full gear 4th gear runs because I NEVER drive like and I'm not going to do tests where I'm running 130mph on a highway. Nearly 110mph is risky enough.

Hopefully this review can help those that want more information to help make a decision about IC options that may suit their daily driving needs on their M235.
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Last edited by XutvJet; 11-08-2020 at 04:24 PM..
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      11-08-2020, 11:41 PM   #2
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Very helpful feedback!

Did you change the charge pipe at the same time as the Wagner IC?

I added the FTP charge pipe a few weeks ago and spark plugs. The car felt more responsive but I didn't do careful comparisons as you did. Just wondering..
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      11-09-2020, 09:26 AM   #3
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Thank you for sharing your results
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      11-09-2020, 11:06 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heitzer View Post
Very helpful feedback!

Did you change the charge pipe at the same time as the Wagner IC?

I added the FTP charge pipe a few weeks ago and spark plugs. The car felt more responsive but I didn't do careful comparisons as you did. Just wondering..
I installed the FTP charge pipe about 1.5 years ago. A great CP for the money, especially since it comes with all the clips and O-rings compared to most of thee other brands that nickel and dime you for those parts in addition to the cost of the CP.
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      11-10-2020, 11:22 AM   #5
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I'll wait for the rest of the review, but it does not look promising. 20 degree reduction in AITs, but that's only in one gear.

Sure it's not a big deal in a daily driver, but I would question any IC that doesn't allow the headroom to make more than one pull without exceeding the thermal limits.
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      11-10-2020, 02:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
I'll wait for the rest of the review, but it does not look promising. 20 degree reduction in AITs, but that's only in one gear.

Sure it's not a big deal in a daily driver, but I would question any IC that doesn't allow the headroom to make more than one pull without exceeding the thermal limits.
My results aren't aren't wildly different than what this guy was seeing in very similar temps with his VRSF 6.5 stepped IC running BM3 Stage 1 93 octane. My step up is likely sitting between BM3 Stage 1 93 octane and BM3 Stage 2 93 octane with respect to power and IAT potential under full throttle.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1752195

The recovery and stability of this IC is what I like and what I was after and works for my car, mods, and daily driving. If I were drag racing the car or making a 1/2 mile car, I'd go a different route. For daily driving or light track duty, this IC is perfect IMO.
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      11-10-2020, 05:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
My results aren't aren't wildly different than what this guy was seeing in very similar temps with his VRSF 6.5 stepped IC running BM3 Stage 1 93 octane. My step up is likely sitting between BM3 Stage 1 93 octane and BM3 Stage 2 93 octane with respect to power and IAT potential under full throttle.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1752195

The recovery and stability of this IC is what I like and what I was after and works for my car, mods, and daily driving. If I were drag racing the car or making a 1/2 mile car, I'd go a different route. For daily driving or light track duty, this IC is perfect IMO.
Impossible.
Literally impossible. The Evo 1 is about 14.5lbs and the VRSF is 27.5 - It has more thermal capacity and it shows.

Per you
Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet
"With the Wagner IC, I'm seeing 100 to 110 degree IATs on the same 3rd gear runs and temps, with temps being way more stable between the runs. Around town, I'm seeing 15 to 30 degree over ambient. When I give it throttle, the temps clear out way quicker and hold more stable for way longer. The Wagner IC also heat soaks way slower and recovers way faster over the stock IC.
So we have

Wagner Evolution 1
Ambient temp - starting Temp - end of 3rd
70 - ??? - 110

VRSF Competition:
79F - 92F - 92F

And I suspect Wagner's lighter weight means it soaks faster in stop and go traffic like the Evolution 2 in this test:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=15


Like I said, I'll wait for more logs (if you choose to share) but this will likely not work for anyone who uses central cooling for their homes in the summer.
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      11-10-2020, 11:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
Impossible.
Literally impossible. The Evo 1 is about 14.5lbs and the VRSF is 27.5 - It has more thermal capacity and it shows.
It's 16.2 lbs per my scale our twice as heavy as the stock IC.

Quote:
So we have

Wagner Evolution 1
Ambient temp - starting Temp - end of 3rd
70 - ??? - 110
Around 95 degrees right after getting on the highway after being in stop and go for 20 minutes in 70 to 75 degree weather. Overall, the IATs go up around 10 to 15 degrees over the course of the 3rd gear run vs 30 degrees or more with the stock IC based on numerous runs.

Quote:
And I suspect Wagner's lighter weight means it soaks faster in stop and go traffic like the Evolution 2 in this test:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=15

Like I said, I'll wait for more logs (if you choose to share) but this will likely not work for anyone who uses central cooling for their homes in the summer.
It doesn't heat soak as fast as stock. Not even remotely close and why would it? It's twice as heavy. It also recovers WAY faster than the stocker too.

I don't think ANY amount of data is going to change your opinion about these ICs.
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      11-11-2020, 09:10 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
It's 16.2 lbs per my scale our twice as heavy as the stock IC.
Good to know, I was quoting from Wagner themselves, but I don't doubt your measurement is more accurate. Sometimes they don't even put the right information online.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Around 95 degrees right after getting on the highway after being in stop and go for 20 minutes in 70 to 75 degree weather. Overall, the IATs go up around 10 to 15 degrees over the course of the 3rd gear run vs 30 degrees or more with the stock IC based on numerous runs.
So baseline temperatures are 95 degrees - and rise about 10 - 15 degrees during a single gear pull.

Wagner Evolution 1
Ambient temp - starting Temp - end of 3rd
70 - 95 - 110 (40 degrees over ambient!)

VRSF Competition:
79F - 92F - 92F (13 degrees over ambient)

Just extrapolate that over 2 gears or even 3, and you'll see that the IC is ill suited for what you're asking it to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
It doesn't heat soak as fast as stock. Not even remotely close and why would it? It's twice as heavy. It also recovers WAY faster than the stocker too.

I don't think ANY amount of data is going to change your opinion about these ICs.
I don't know if I can agree it "recovers better than stock" when the last Evolution 1 data log failed to show this as true, and data logs from the EVO2 show Tube and Fin intercoolers don't recover quicker than Bar and Plate (about even)

This is absolutely an upgrade over stock, but considering that the temperatures go up 15 degrees in one pull, this IC is not suited for Stage 2 cars, or cars that see high ambient temps.
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      11-11-2020, 02:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
So baseline temperatures are 95 degrees - and rise about 10 - 15 degrees during a single gear pull.

Wagner Evolution 1
Ambient temp - starting Temp - end of 3rd
70 - 95 - 110 (40 degrees over ambient!)

VRSF Competition:
79F - 92F - 92F (13 degrees over ambient)

Just extrapolate that over 2 gears or even 3, and you'll see that the IC is ill suited for what you're asking it to do.
I could easily go out on the highway and get the IC to cool down quickly to around 10-15 over ambient (which is what it typically runs on the street during driving and on the highway) and then make a pull. With that, I'm absolutely certain that it would show 15 to 20 degrees over ambient across a 3rd gear run with a fully cooled IC as I've seen it with my logs, but I don't find it very representative or realistic of normal driving. I'm more focused on the IAT climb across the entire run. With my car, I see a 10 to 15 degrees climb in IAT over ambient across the span of a 3rd gear run (~2500rpms to 7000rpms) with Wagner which is far better than stock.

We get it, you have distain for Wagner products. Also, to you, a 10 degree variance in IAT between the ICs you like and the ones you don't is a huge difference. For some of us, it's not. Everything is a compromise, especially when it comes to parts "upgrades". To sell it otherwise is misleading. There's damn good reason why many racecar parts are terrible for daily driver use and why nearly every mass produced turbo car on the market, including Ferrari's, run tube and fin ICs. And no, cost isn't the driver as tube and fin is not cheaper to manufacture these days.
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Last edited by XutvJet; 11-11-2020 at 03:04 PM..
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      11-11-2020, 03:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
I could easily go out on the highway and get the IC to cool down quickly to around 10-15 over ambient (which is what it typically runs on the street during driving and on the highway) and then make a pull. With that, I'm absolutely certain that it would show 15 to 20 degrees over ambient across a 3rd gear run with a fully cooled IC as I've seen it with my logs, but I don't find it very representative or realistic of normal driving. I'm more focused on the IAT climb across the entire run. With my car, I see a 10 to 15 degrees climb in IAT over ambient across the span of a 3rd gear run (~2500rpms to 7000rpms) with Wagner which is far better than stock.

We get it, you have distain for Wagner products. Also, to you, a 10 degree variance in IAT between the ICs you like and the ones you don't is a huge difference. For some of us, it's not. Everything is a compromise, especially when it comes to parts "upgrades". To sell it otherwise is misleading. There's damn good reason why many racecar parts are terrible for daily driver use.
This has nothing for my concern for your purchases and everything to do with what the data objectively shows.

Compared to other intercoolers, it appears the Wagner's are always at least 20 degrees above ambient at baseline*. (I believe this to be a function of the IC construction, but that's not what this is about) The IC seems temps increase in one pull, and while absolute temperatures ARE important, but I want to focus on is the delta between the start and the finish. According to your log - at least 10 -15 degrees in one gear. A multiple gear pull would have that at possibly 40 degree difference, and this isn't even factoring what the ambient temperature is.

*Remember when I pointed out that the Wagner's ICs already run significantly hotter than ambient? Now add that to an increasingly hotter IC and you're looking at temps just as hot as the stock intercooler - all you did is buy yourself maybe 1 to 2 pulls of aggressive driving.
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      11-12-2020, 02:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
*Remember when I pointed out that the Wagner's ICs already run significantly hotter than ambient? Now add that to an increasingly hotter IC and you're looking at temps just as hot as the stock intercooler - all you did is buy yourself maybe 1 to 2 pulls of aggressive driving.
As noted earlier, I've tested the Wagner in temps ranging from around 35 degrees to 80 degrees. During steady driving at 40mph between 85mph, the IC is typically around 10 to 15 degrees over ambient. If I give it some moderate throttle (~25% throttle) and get air moving though the IC, the IATs immediately drop into the 5 to 10 degrees over ambient. Let off the throttle and the IATs climb back up a bit.

If I'm sitting for an extended time (say 1 to 5 minutes), the IATs can shoot up to 30 degrees over ambient when ambient temps are over 60 degrees. The max I've seen sitting for 15 minutes in 80 degree weather was 30 degrees over ambient. This is a factor of the IC and metal CP heat soaking, hardly any air running through the systems, and the radiant heat from the radiator. Remember, at a stop and even slow speeds/light throttle, very little air is moving through the IC and CP as well around and through it. Once at speeds of 30mph+ and after a 1 minute or two, the IATs drop to the 15-20 over ambient range and after a few minutes of steady driving, into the 10-15 over ambient range. Data I've seen for other ICs show very similar temps at speed.
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      11-12-2020, 05:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
As noted earlier, I've tested the Wagner in temps ranging from around 35 degrees to 80 degrees. During steady driving at 40mph between 85mph, the IC is typically around 10 to 15 degrees over ambient. If I give it some moderate throttle (~25% throttle) and get air moving though the IC, the IATs immediately drop into the 5 to 10 degrees over ambient. Let off the throttle and the IATs climb back up a bit.

If I'm sitting for an extended time (say 1 to 5 minutes), the IATs can shoot up to 30 degrees over ambient when ambient temps are over 60 degrees. The max I've seen sitting for 15 minutes in 80 degree weather was 30 degrees over ambient. This is a factor of the IC and metal CP heat soaking, hardly any air running through the systems, and the radiant heat from the radiator. Remember, at a stop and even slow speeds/light throttle, very little air is moving through the IC and CP as well around and through it. Once at speeds of 30mph+ and after a 1 minute or two, the IATs drop to the 15-20 over ambient range and after a few minutes of steady driving, into the 10-15 over ambient range. Data I've seen for other ICs show very similar temps at speed.
You know, I’m just not sure.

You’re the 3rd Wagner owner who has reported IATs thag high during normal commuting. Yes, the temps do go down with increased speeds, but something just seems odd. I don’t ever recall any IC having +20 degrees over ambient during regular driving.


See this thread on the Evo 3:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1727351

And
Evo 2:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=15

If you say that’s normal, I’ll believe you (no data to refute) - but something tells me it’s not.
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