[ocN55]

Originally Posted by nike001

GREAT info! Finally!

I basically knew 100% that Dinan was using some BMW P/N for the bumpstops but figuring out what P/N they carried was beyond difficult since nobody wanted to take 2 seconds and take a picture.

I actually came close to ordering E36 stops at ~$70, but maybe I'll get the ones Dinan uses since they must apparently work.

I wonder why they used:
A. 5er bump stops
B. 2 different bump stops from two different 5er generations

Someone has got to do this...
Pictures just incase there are any doubters in the future.

[tenfour]

Are you done with the install? Any pics?

[ocN55]

Originally Posted by tenfour

Are you done with the install? Any pics?

I'll be making a separate thread

[BarryJI]

I am not defending Dinan's profiteering nor disrespecting the OP's outrage but what they are charging for here is a big chunk of R and D. It's all their testing that gives me so much faith in Dinan. I say this as a very satisfied buyer of the springs and bump stops. This mod has really transformed my car because of the way it enables all the enhanced power output from the tune to go directly onto the road. Of all the mods I've done, it is by far the most radical in its effect.

[alexc93]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

I am not defending Dinan's profiteering nor disrespecting the OP's outrage but what they are charging for here is a big chunk of R and D. It's all their testing that gives me so much faith in Dinan. I say this as a very satisfied buyer of the springs and bump stops. This mod has really transformed my car because of the way it enables all the enhanced power output from the tune to go directly onto the road. Of all the mods I've done, it is by far the most radical in its effect.

They really don't do as much R&D as you would think...

No more than any other spring manufacturer..and especially not more than BMW who make the bump stops that they are selling as "Dinan supplemental ride kits" for 4 times the price.

[Dinan_Engineering]

The Dinan M235i bumpstops retail for $133. If you can get them cheaper or can find similar ones for cheaper more power to you. We buy direct from BMW to ensure quality standards are kept. The difference in price (which isn't nearly as much as you are led to believe here when buying direct from BMW) is mainly so we can make some money on our side for the work we have done and put into the R&D aspect of it. Sure we get them for less then retail from BMW but not that much less. Not to mention we still have to account for distributor/dealer margins which raise the price we can actually sell them for. Is this a concern to the end-user? No. But it plays a factor in what we can actually sell them for without losing money. so for the case of the argument in question, it does apply.

Perhaps the bigger element of this is the amount of time, data gathering, and research put into cataloging all of these bumpstops so we know what bump stops should be paired with what. As far as I am aware we are the only manufacturer besides BMW themselves that actually bother with bump stop kits because we know the value of them whereas most spring vendors are simply after the drop. We painstakingly purchased, tested, and cataloged EVERY SINGLE bump stop that BMW has used (past and present). In fact that part in itself was nearly a year of work for a lucky engineer (although he would debate the "lucky" aspect). Armed with this data we are able to pair up a correct spring rate bumpstop with the correct spring rate of the spring itself for optimum results. Contrary to popular belief for the layman the spring rate is a combination of the bumpstop and the spring and not just the spring. They go hand in hand with one another. There is actually an article on our website under the "Dinan University" section that touches on the subject that may assist in understanding it. Regardless it is why you see a front bumpstop from a E46 3 series and a rear bumpstop from a E39 M5 in the rear, or whatever the random combination may be, on a Dinan bump stop kit. Instead of reinventing the wheel and manufacturing new bump stops we utilize those that are already readily available but match them up to our purposes / springs in order to maintain suspension travel.

By asking us to supply the BMW part number you are basically trying to bypass those that actually did the work in development and get something for nothing. It should be noted that there are also a decent amount of bumpstops that Dinan does manufacture as the BMW variants did not fill a specific niche we needed in some cases. Regardless, We obviously don't try to hide the BMW part numbers as evidenced by not bothering to shave them off or anything because we don't feel we need to but what is being asked is akin to asking a software programmer for his source code so you can make your own copy of the program without actually doing any of the hard lifting and getting it for free.

We are very proud of our suspension work and internally view ourselves more of a suspension company then an engine tuner. There is a reason why every single press article on a Dinan tuned car for the last 30 years ALWAYS raves about the suspension. We take pride in it and have to believe with that track record, do it right.

In regards to the OP's original conversation with Darren in sales... he's new so it wouldn't surprise me if he did think they were all our own design but still, he should have been trained a little better in how to handle that sort of question. Live and learn.

I don't expect this response to appease everyone hence why I was apprehensive to even responding to it but it is the reality of the situation at hand so there it is.

[casper83]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

The Dinan M235i bumpstops retail for $133. If you can get them cheaper or can find similar ones for cheaper more power to you. We buy direct from BMW to ensure quality standards are kept. The difference in price (which isn't nearly as much as you are led to believe here when buying direct from BMW) is mainly so we can make some money on our side for the work we have done and put into the R&D aspect of it. Sure we get them for less then retail from BMW but not that much less. Not to mention we still have to account for distributor/dealer margins which raise the price we can actually sell them for. Is this a concern to the end-user? No. But it plays a factor in what we can actually sell them for without losing money. so for the case of the argument in question, it does apply.

Perhaps the bigger element of this is the amount of time, data gathering, and research put into cataloging all of these bumpstops so we know what bump stops should be paired with what. As far as I am aware we are the only manufacturer besides BMW themselves that actually bother with bump stop kits because we know the value of them whereas most spring vendors are simply after the drop. We painstakingly purchased, tested, and cataloged EVERY SINGLE bump stop that BMW has used (past and present). In fact that part in itself was nearly a year of work for a lucky engineer (although he would debate the "lucky" aspect). Armed with this data we are able to pair up a correct spring rate bumpstop with the correct spring rate of the spring itself for optimum results. Contrary to popular belief for the layman the spring rate is a combination of the bumpstop and the spring and not just the spring. They go hand in hand with one another. There is actually an article on our website under the "Dinan University" section that touches on the subject that may assist in understanding it. Regardless it is why you see a front bumpstop from a E46 3 series and a rear bumpstop from a E39 M5 in the rear, or whatever the random combination may be, on a Dinan bump stop kit. Instead of reinventing the wheel and manufacturing new bump stops we utilize those that are already readily available but match them up to our purposes / springs in order to maintain suspension travel.

By asking us to supply the BMW part number you are basically trying to bypass those that actually did the work in development and get something for nothing. It should be noted that there are also a decent amount of bumpstops that Dinan does manufacture as the BMW variants did not fill a specific niche we needed in some cases. Regardless, We obviously don't try to hide the BMW part numbers as evidenced by not bothering to shave them off or anything because we don't feel we need to but what is being asked is akin to asking a software programmer for his source code so you can make your own copy of the program without actually doing any of the hard lifting and getting it for free.

We are very proud of our suspension work and internally view ourselves more of a suspension company then an engine tuner. There is a reason why every single press article on a Dinan tuned car for the last 30 years ALWAYS raves about the suspension. We take pride in it and have to believe with that track record, do it right.

In regards to the OP's original conversation with Darren in sales... he's new so it wouldn't surprise me if he did think they were all our own design but still, he should have been trained a little better in how to handle that sort of question. Live and learn.

I don't expect this response to appease everyone hence why I was apprehensive to even responding to it but it is the reality of the situation at hand so there it is.

Thanks for stepping up and responding. It’s not an easy thing to do on this board as there is a lot of negativity. I do understand the OP’s frustration with what appears to be an excessive markup on a part.

Thank you for giving some perspective as it is easy to forget all the efforts it takes to engineer solutions and not just sell parts. We often take it for granted. I appreciate getting a product knowing it will work and not have to “tune” it myself. Poking around your site you have some of the best instruction sheets by far that are very specific to a vehicle and they are free for anyone to look at. I’m sure people will use them when installing other company’s products (as I’ve already seen posts regarding it). I’m guessing people won’t be sending you any sort of monetary contributions for your efforts.

Like you have said before, people have the free will to buy or not buy your product. Some of the stuff I find worth it (ie. Camber plates) other stuff I may not (ie. Bumpstops). Either way thanks for supporting the hobby, providing quality parts and professional service.

Thank you to ocN55 for sharing your findings with the board. It’s quite a nice savings.

[pyroboy024]

Thanks for this info I was looking to order mine soon toon send pictures when you install

[Dirk Van Driver]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

The Dinan M235i bumpstops retail for $133. If you can get them cheaper or can find similar ones for cheaper more power to you. We buy direct from BMW to ensure quality standards are kept. The difference in price (which isn't nearly as much as you are led to believe here when buying direct from BMW) is mainly so we can make some money on our side for the work we have done and put into the R&D aspect of it. Sure we get them for less then retail from BMW but not that much less. Not to mention we still have to account for distributor/dealer margins which raise the price we can actually sell them for. Is this a concern to the end-user? No. But it plays a factor in what we can actually sell them for without losing money. so for the case of the argument in question, it does apply.

Perhaps the bigger element of this is the amount of time, data gathering, and research put into cataloging all of these bumpstops so we know what bump stops should be paired with what. As far as I am aware we are the only manufacturer besides BMW themselves that actually bother with bump stop kits because we know the value of them whereas most spring vendors are simply after the drop. We painstakingly purchased, tested, and cataloged EVERY SINGLE bump stop that BMW has used (past and present). In fact that part in itself was nearly a year of work for a lucky engineer (although he would debate the "lucky" aspect). Armed with this data we are able to pair up a correct spring rate bumpstop with the correct spring rate of the spring itself for optimum results. Contrary to popular belief for the layman the spring rate is a combination of the bumpstop and the spring and not just the spring. They go hand in hand with one another. There is actually an article on our website under the "Dinan University" section that touches on the subject that may assist in understanding it. Regardless it is why you see a front bumpstop from a E46 3 series and a rear bumpstop from a E39 M5 in the rear, or whatever the random combination may be, on a Dinan bump stop kit. Instead of reinventing the wheel and manufacturing new bump stops we utilize those that are already readily available but match them up to our purposes / springs in order to maintain suspension travel.

By asking us to supply the BMW part number you are basically trying to bypass those that actually did the work in development and get something for nothing. It should be noted that there are also a decent amount of bumpstops that Dinan does manufacture as the BMW variants did not fill a specific niche we needed in some cases. Regardless, We obviously don't try to hide the BMW part numbers as evidenced by not bothering to shave them off or anything because we don't feel we need to but what is being asked is akin to asking a software programmer for his source code so you can make your own copy of the program without actually doing any of the hard lifting and getting it for free.

We are very proud of our suspension work and internally view ourselves more of a suspension company then an engine tuner. There is a reason why every single press article on a Dinan tuned car for the last 30 years ALWAYS raves about the suspension. We take pride in it and have to believe with that track record, do it right.

In regards to the OP's original conversation with Darren in sales... he's new so it wouldn't surprise me if he did think they were all our own design but still, he should have been trained a little better in how to handle that sort of question. Live and learn.

I don't expect this response to appease everyone hence why I was apprehensive to even responding to it but it is the reality of the situation at hand so there it is.

Strange isn't it ? H & R produce a spring set that (if this board is anything to go by) causes premature damper failure issues when fitted to a M235i.

Perhaps those complaining about the cost of the Dinan bumpstops may want to consider whether the investment in the shorter bumpstops (and the Dinan springs) is worthwhile to avoid the premature failure of their dampers as evidenced with the fitment of the H & R kits.

Stranger still that there are few (if any) individuals complaining about quality of the Dinan spring kit, and indeed the transformation wrought upon their cars once fitted.

Ergo the Dinan kit is a properly and thoroughly developed kit that works. It works because of the many hours and miles R & D no doubt undertaken to ensure it does work properly.

It may come as a shock to some, but R & D of ANY product, doesn't come cheap (or as I suspect some think) free, on the contrary, it's an expensive and often time consuming business.

So the next time you guys fit a suspension or spring kit, why don't you toss the bumpstops supplied with the kit into the trash can and go out and buy some you think will do the job.

When you find they don't, (be that when your dampers fail prematurely or you find the ride compromised) pull all your dampers, strip them, toss those bumpstops in the trash too, then go have a chat with your local BMW parts guy and find another set that you think might be suitable.

When they arrive, build your dampers, refit them to the car, test them. If not happy with the results repeat ad infinitum (or until you find something that works) Good luck with that...

But there's another aspect. The Dinan spring sets cost $308, in the UK that works out to a paltry £53 per spring.

Now consider how many Dinan have to have produced to make the costs viable, add in the aforementioned R & D costs, possible tooling required, then add in any distributors profit. All that for $75 per spring .... !!

All joking aside, I'd say the springs are almost a loss leader for Dinan, so no small wonder they try and claw some money back on the bumpstops !

And let's not forget, you don't HAVE to buy the bumpstops, sure they're "highly recommended" but you buy them of your own free will. As you do their springs, or indeed any of their products.

An M235i auto with no options costs $52,768.63 US (or £36,770). You guys are fitting, wheels, tyres, re-flashes, exhausts and a host of BMW Performance parts (which BMW will be making simply massive profits on) without batting an eyelid, yet they serve no other purpose than to change your car aesthetically.
Yet you're bitching about Dinan making a few dollars to ensure your car's handling is improved and you don't screw your dampers prematurely or indeed their mountings. Go figure ....

Those of you bitching need to try getting into the design, development, manufacturing, commissioning and supply of small runs of specialist car components for the likes of yourselves. Most wouldn't get products to market, let alone produce products that were of merchantable quality. Try it and see if you can, AND then see if you can turn a profit into the bargain.

No affiliation with Dinan blah blah blah.

[Tpeterson]

As I posted earlier in the thread,the high cost of installation is more upsetting than the cost of the product.But that's on BMWNA,who sets the labor book rates that Dinan has to use to continue their warranty relationship.

On the other hand (aren't I even handed) there's a thread detailing springs incorrectly installed by a non-Dinan dealer that led to shock failure.So as with all Dinan products much of what you pay for is peace of mind.

[ocN55]

Originally Posted by Dirk Van Driver

An M235i auto with no options costs $52,768.63 US (or £36,770). You guys are fitting, wheels, tyres, re-flashes, exhausts and a host of BMW Performance parts (which BMW will be making simply massive profits on) without batting an eyelid, yet they serve no other purpose than to change your car aesthetically.
Yet you're bitching about Dinan making a few dollars to ensure your car's handling is improved and you don't screw your dampers prematurely or indeed their mountings. Go figure ....

Didn't care much for your monologue besides this part. I've gotta say, you've made a twisted comparison comparing such things. While the mods you listed are pricey, none are trying to carry a facade that they're something more than generic BMW parts that have already been tested, made, and manufactured. To me, this is like taking the E9x M3 LCA OEM upgrade (a popular mod for e90s) and adding an "R&D" tax to it.

Overall, this is not a matter of money or the quality of the product itself. It is the poor form and principle that Dinan has shown me that compelled me to share my experience.

And FWIW, I've helped Dinan sell several more springs sets because of this thread. By exposing the truth on the bumpstops, the gap between the dinan springs and other comparable products has been much narrowed. Forum members have been finding that paying just the $300 and some change is pretty reasonable for some springs that work.

[Racer20]

I'm a vehicle dynamics engineer. Tuning springs, shocks, and jounce bumpers is my job. I can tell you for a fact that jounce bumpers are not a matter of "if it's shorter, it works" as someone else on here said. The rate, progressivity, engagement point, and how it compacts at full compression are all important to how the car rides and handles. Jounce bumpers aren't just for limiting travel, they are more like supplemental springs that come into play a few mm into the compression stroke. As such, an improperly selected jounce bumper can significantly change the understeer/oversteer balance of a car at the limit in racetrack or emergency handling situations.

There's significantly more engineering behind jounce bumper selection that you would imagine, even if they are off-the shelf bumpers.

[bryan_G01]

bought my bumpstops from FCP Euro and saved over 100$, lifetime warranty.

[gk09]

Originally Posted by ocN55

I'm making this thread so I can maybe save some 2 series owners from giving their money to an unethical 'tuning' company that carries no regard as a business beyond their relationship with BMW. Hope my loss of about a bill can save others

Backstory: So for a while I've been trying to get the Part #s for the Dinan Supplemental Ride Kit, fancy way of describing bumpstops. I needed these so that I can effectively run the Dinan springs, which I've only heard good things about unlike H&R

After failed attempts at trying to get other members to see if they can read the a number on the bumpstops themselves, I decided to call Dinan. Unfortunately I dealt with their asshole of a representative again (pretty sure his name was Darren) who told me that these bumpstops were not manufactured by BMW nor Dinan. So I took his word for it, and just ordered the Dinan bumpstops at full retail price of $130. Then they arrive at my door in a couple of days, awesome.

But, what do you know... there is a BMW logo and part# printed on the bumpstops. Rears could be had for $10-13 shipped for a pair, while the fronts are $10-20 depending on if they are genuine OEM or just OE equivalent.

I've heard people say that these bumpstops are off of an E30 or E36, both answers are wrong. Looks like that the front and rear bumpstops are for a E39 and E60 5 series respectively.

Rear: 33536762722
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...in-33536762722
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Rein-Bum...xW2h66&vxp=mtr

Fronts: 31331138814
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-31331138814oe
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-URO-Part...9Wx4MT&vxp=mtr
http://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/3245...t-31331138814/


I know we've got to pay to play, but I never want to feel like I got fucked in anything I do.
Damn Dinan, at least buy me dinner first.

Thanks for the heads up.

[zipphreak]

This thread is the nature of the beast. Cheap ass BMW owners with 50k cars won't spend $130 because they don't believe they should pay an upcharge of an OEM product because the company that designed, tested, springs with the right bump stops doesn't deserve more money than OEM.

Dinan, you should've bundled everything together, and gave these guys no option. I don't see a reason why you would run them with stock bumpers or without them completely

I've been running these springs + stops on my m235xi for a while now, and they have been great with the OEM dampers on the track and street.

Spend the money buy the sets from Dinan and support what they do. Hint: wait for a 20% sale and get everything then.

[seedyrom]

It reminds me of that old joke.

A manufacturing plant was having trouble with a new machine. The huge mechanical monster simply wouldn’t run. They had tried everything. Nothing worked. It hiccuped, it moaned, it struggled. But it didn’t run. It was costing a fortune each day it was down.

Finally the CEO called in a consultant. The man arrived at 10 AM. He had a briefcase. He opened the briefcase and took out a pair of overalls and put them on. He then took out a ball peen hammer.

The consultant climbed into the barely running machine, stared at it for a moment, then took the hammer and hit the machine. It immediately settled down and ran perfectly. He took off his overalls, and put them and the hammer in his briefcase.

He then left at 10:15, telling the CEO he would submit his invoice.

A week later the CEO received an invoice for $100,000. Incensed, he called the consultant and demanded an itemized statement. He received the following:

Wear and tear on Ball Peen Hammer……….$1.50

Dry cleaning of Overalls ………………………..$8.50

Knowing where to hit…………………….$99,990.00

The invoice was paid the next day.
It’s all about knowing which part to use. I thought this had been explained by a few people, but I don’t think the OP gets it.

Apart from the ludicrous fact that you are angry they didn’t tell you their commercial secrets over the phone, you are upset that they are using an OEM part and putting markup on it.
You didn’t know what part it was beforehand. So why do you think you know more than them now?
If Dinan changed a spring rate, are you now capable of recommending a bump stop from the BMW catalogue? No. Or you could run out, spent a shitload on R&D, determine what is right, and go on a forum to let people know ... but you’d probably want a little money to offset the time, effort and cost in that R&D. How much is your time worth per hour? Mustn’t be much.

Having spent many years modifying vehicles, I’ve found OEM stuff to be a lot better than aftermarket, so you use it where possible. Anyone can take urethane and shove it in suspension, but the EOM stuff is so much more forgiving. Sure, it doesn’t have as long a life, as rubber breaks down more quickly ... but I personally prefer to replace cheap rubber more often, than have expensive urethane parts go rock hard when they wear out.

No one likes paying more than what something costs, but OP is effectively saying every nut and bolt in any product ever, should be at cost, because that’s all it costs the manufacturer.
Crazy.

Hey OP, are you the guy in the clip below? He was building his own iPhone from components. Stupid suckers paying Apple money for something already assembled. The smart people save money and do it themselves.

[stlb5]

What am I missing? Looking at FCP Euro, the fronts are $20.36 each and the rears are $26.50 each for genuine BMW for a total of $93.70. They have the Rein version available for the rears for $13.81 each. I don't see a Rein version available for the front, this would bring the total to $68.34. Tischer has the Dinan set for $133 with 20% off for Black Friday which would be a total of $106.40.

How is anyone saving $100? Are all the sites wrong and those prices are for a pair and not each?

[ninthvision]

Originally Posted by stlb5

What am I missing? Looking at FCP Euro, the fronts are $20.36 each and the rears are $26.50 each for genuine BMW for a total of $93.70. They have the Rein version available for the rears for $13.81 each. I don't see a Rein version available for the front, this would bring the total to $68.34. Tischer has the Dinan set for $133 with 20% off for Black Friday which would be a total of $106.40.

How is anyone saving $100? Are all the sites wrong and those prices are for a pair and not each?

Bringing up a super old thread but (for those who are getting into the 2 series platform now) yeah I ran into the same issue since I just got dinan springs. I'm pretty sure fcpeuro and other companies raised the prices to match the dinan prices. I think back a few years ago when this thread was going the prices were super cheap. Sucks they caught on

[bryan_G01]

this has been covered in length over the years, they are from a 5 series, and can be bought for dollars off fcp euro.

[Maynard]

Just under $31 dollars apiece, actually (from FCP), or about 124/set. And almost identical to pricing for the stock bumpstops, so fcp aren't just 'gouging' the ones that replace Dinan. Dinan lists these for a whopping $134/set, the lousy chiseling bastards!! That $10 could go towards another stick-on ///M badge (or two, if you shop ebay). If that is your idea of getting f'ed, I think you need to get a life.