[Hapbob]

Thinking about getting another fun to drive car. I have had a couple 2 series and enjoyed them. I want a manual trans now and my bro in-law has a mini that I drove and it was quite fun. Not as smooth as a 2 series but it was quite quick and cornering was very fun. Looking for inputs from you guys on if you ever had/have a mini and who has gone from 2 to mini or mini to 2 ? This is going to be a third fun to drive car not a everyday vehicle.
Hap

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Hapbob

Thinking about getting another fun to drive car. I have had a couple 2 series and enjoyed them. I want a manual trans now and my bro in-law has a mini that I drove and it was quite fun. Not as smooth as a 2 series but it was quite quick and cornering was very fun. Looking for inputs from you guys on if you ever had/have a mini and who has gone from 2 to mini or mini to 2 ? This is going to be a third fun to drive car not a everyday vehicle.
Hap

Which MINI are you considering? We have both a MINI Countryman S and the 2 Series at the same time. The MINI is on the BMWAG corporate ULK platform that is also used for the X1. Excellent vehicle in all ways, but the MINI is in quite a different segment and purpose...actually the definition of a useful/versatile daily driver. The Countryman was rated the highest quality model in the brand by CR.

[Hapbob]

Hey sportstick
I am the guy in Michigan who wanted to fly out and buy your 2 series couple yrs ago.
You said no.
I only have seen up close the cooper S hatchback. And have driven that model. It’s not a BMW but it is more affordable and fun to drive. That is its purpose for me. Reliability is a question I guess like BMWs. So looking for inputs and suggestions from those who have experience.

Hap

[aerobod]

If you want the most fun BMW Mini the 2012-2014 JCW GP2 takes a lot of beating. Not quite as fast as the current Civic Type R around a track, but better feel and more fun, going by my son’s input from having owned one. 135i 6-pot front brakes, coil overs and rear seat removed from the factory.

The only problem is the current price for them is quite high, typically US$25K for a genuine one with average mileage up to over $35K for low mileage examples (some standard JCWs are dressed up as fake GP2s). I think only 500 were imported into the US and 50 into Canada of the 2,000 worldwide production.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Hapbob

Hey sportstick
I am the guy in Michigan who wanted to fly out and buy your 2 series couple yrs ago.
You said no.
I only have seen up close the cooper S hatchback. And have driven that model. It’s not a BMW but it is more affordable and fun to drive. That is its purpose for me. Reliability is a question I guess like BMWs. So looking for inputs and suggestions from those who have experience.

Hap

Hi Hap!
Yes, I know and remember, but I did not say "no" to flying out! Just "no" to buying my car! No one will do get to do that...I just itemized it in my estate for my son.

As to reliability, check these results from the CR owner survey. Note the wide range within MINI from Countryman to the basic Cooper or the Clubman. Our almost 4-year old Countryman has been flawless and it has very entertaining dynamics, but it's more of a small wagon than a personal coupe.

[Hapbob]

Hey Sportstick
That data is a bit surprising to me. When I think reliability I think motors and thought motors were about the same between models. Also I may lease this one and the reliability isn't my problem, except the hassle of the 90 miles to dealer. But I have a hard time keeping a car very long and the 36 month commitment to a mini may cramp my style. I may keep looking for a 2 series but the manual is hard to find. Will you replace your Mini with another mini when its time ? Is there enough BMW genetics in a mini to keep a BMW enthusiast happy !
Thanks for your inputs
Hap

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Hapbob

Hey Sportstick
That data is a bit surprising to me. When I think reliability I think motors and thought motors were about the same between models. Also I may lease this one and the reliability isn't my problem, except the hassle of the 90 miles to dealer. But I have a hard time keeping a car very long and the 36 month commitment to a mini may cramp my style. I may keep looking for a 2 series but the manual is hard to find. Will you replace your Mini with another mini when its time ? Is there enough BMW genetics in a mini to keep a BMW enthusiast happy !
Thanks for your inputs
Hap

The 2018 Mini Countryman S is my wife's car. The Countryman may not be what die-hard Mini traditionalists think of as a "Mini", but she loves it. Whenver I talk about anything new, her response is "not for me!". She's not a BMW fan as we are, but she is bonded to her car. When I showed her the new Countryman in about a year or so will be offered as an EV, she said "Maybe, but I'm in no hurry to give up my car." Before we bought it, she drove the X1 and thought the Countryman felt better and was more fun. Not sure how much of that is the interior design, though, which is very very cool. There may be some calibration differences, but it's the same vehicle underneath.

Some of the data may be due to the platform sharing but also may be a result of the Countryman assembly being at Nedcar, which does an outstanding job. The car arrived as a "jewel"...I could not find a single issue and I looked.

https://www.vdlnedcar.nl/en/vdlnedcar/about

[p912guy]

My previous car was a 2011 MINI Cooper S Hardtop (R56) with MT, special ordered in Pepper White and fully loaded with every package available including Green Lounge Leather seats. I absolutely loved my MINI, and had it been a convertible, I probably wouldn't have sold it to buy my M235i convertible (what can I say, I love top down driving). My MINI reminded me a lot of the 1977 Honda Civic Hatchback I had back in high school which was purchased new after being on the "waiting list" for a new Civic for 6 months (yes that was a think back then). The MINI was small, quick, comfortable and very fun to drive. That said, even though I loved my MINI, I truly love my M235i with 6 spd MT. After 5 years and 63K miles I have no interest in trading it now or in the near future, as there's nothing else out there besides a P car that interests me. If I replace it (it's my current daily so eventually I will need to replace it) it'll probably be with a Boxster with a MT.

[TAZ007]

If you don't mind a vert, I would recommend the Miata. On the other hand, my G29 M40 is awesome and recommended as well.

[morphomeman]

I drove my sister's Mini a few times, a fairly basic model. It was tons of fun, like a big go-kart in terms of handling. But I hated the interior styling, with lots of little retro toggle switches. F22 forever!

[High Desert]

We have a pair, my MCS heavily modified '15 and my wife's '15 F23 'S' Vert, 228i Xdrive. Both pre LCI.

Basically same engine, turbo charged 4. Mine has a JCW tune and sunroof. Top speeds about the same, 155. Vert auto, Mini 6 speed manual with Mini's stock auto rev match. Milage, Mini about 6-8 MPG better, probably due to weight. I also have rear seat delete. We never carry passengers. Vert has more rear seating room.

The MINI is quicker. At 85 mph, tach turns 2,900 rpm. Vert is higher. Vert better on cross-country road trips. It "floats" more on square tire setup.

Both electronics, coding, and stereos same, H, Mini seems much higher quality probably do to cabin size. Mini has way more after-market modifications available.

I did the MINI Motoring School in Thermal 4 years ago. The Mini’s were JCW autos. They had the BMW school at the same time with the “M” model, don’t remember which series but were 2 doors. Both on Continental tires. On the autocross track, the M’s tires were smoking and squealing. Mini's not so much smoke. Guess who was fastest?

Each has it's own qualities and distractions. I still smile each time I fire up the twin turbo. No need for a rear camera as I never look back. Geezers check out my wife(blonde) in the BMW. At the gas station, girls tell me they like my car. Most others just smile and shake their head.
MT video on last year’s season of TCA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRa...orTrendChannel

[XutvJet]

I know too many people and have watched too many videos by the Car Ninja highlighting the issues, most significant, with the Minis, to know i wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole. Same goes for most any BMW that predates 2014 as well or ANY 5+ series or BMW SUV.

M235s are quite reliable as is most any 2014+ 3 or 4 series with the N55. I'd steer away from the 228 and 230 cars as they're not as reliable, don't have the upgrades of the M235, plus the price difference between a 228/230 and M235 is not that significant.

If you're dead set on a small 2+2, the new BRZ/GT86 would be a solid choice. They're also quite quick now plus they're a true sports car.

[Shovelman]

Hey Sportstick
If you or your wife ever gets a new car will you repaint the garage floor?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I know too many people and have watched too many videos by the Car Ninja highlighting the issues, most significant, with the Minis, to know i wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole. Same goes for most any BMW that predates 2014 as well or ANY 5+ series or BMW SUV.

M235s are quite reliable as is most any 2014+ 3 or 4 series with the N55. I'd steer away from the 228 and 230 cars as they're not as reliable, don't have the upgrades of the M235, plus the price difference between a 228/230 and M235 is not that significant.

If you're dead set on a small 2+2, the new BRZ/GT86 would be a solid choice. They're also quite quick now plus they're a true sports car.

So much to challenge!

It's a broad generalization to combine all MINI products. The Countryman I mentioned above is essentially a BMW X1 with a different body. Since 2018, ours has been flawless, and the CR data supports that this is not a fluke, just as it does that the classic smallest MINI may be more consistent with your caution.

Also, I have a 7+ year old 228i, and it's never been in for a repair (other than a day one rattle, immediately fixed)...only maintenance and mod installations. I recognize the N20 problem, but it afflicts a minority of vehicles, although it is catastrophic when it happens. For about two grand, it can be updated electively ahead of time (although my SA discouraged this) or it can be tested and if showing signs of deterioration, repaired under the class action settlement. As for overall vehicle reliability, there is no other data I know to distinguish the cars by powertrain. Also, the step to a six cylinder is not just about price. Some of us actively don't want the larger, heavier engine and don't consider it an "upgrade".

[Miata13]

Hapbob - Currently have both a'19 F22 230i x Drive and a '15 R59 MINI Cooper S Roadster; both purchased new and are both automatics. The MINI replaced two successive manual Miatas; a '99 Sport and a '08 Power Retractable Hard Top. The Miatas were problem-free except for a retractable roof motor issue on the '08. We had over 110k miles on the '99 with no issues. The MINI has served us well with no issues other than routine maintenance; it has over 55k miles and has been on two cross country MINI Takes the States journeys (hopefully a third next year!). Love the MINI, it has all the fun factor of the Miatas (albeit FWD is different than RWD as is MT over AT), with the turbo runs lower RPM on the highway and is a much better (smoother, quieter) touring convertible. That said, the Roadster "ended" in 2015 and now your MINI convertible choice is a "regular" 2+2 seat convertible. Recently drove a '22 MINI JCW Convertible and wow..it's a performer and is much more BMW sourced than my Roadster. If I were looking for a new small convertible, I'd go for a MINI, the current ND2 Miatas are quite cramped inside....

Sounds like you have some fun springtime test driving ahead of you...assuming you CAN find any on a dealer's lot. Our local MINI dealer has only 2 new MINIs and the local Mazda dealer has no new Miatas. Enjoy your "research"!

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Shovelman

Hey Sportstick
If you or your wife ever gets a new car will you repaint the garage floor?

Most of the garage is the generic light brown flake that goes with anything. The 2015 228i on the orange floor is a keeper. I just itemized it in my estate plan to go to my son sometime after I become the 85+ year old guy who shows up with a classic at a meet with some other guys born in 2015! The interesting new question is that the car I just put a deposit on as a new "family car" to replace the white 3GT not in the above photo is also orange, so should I expand the floor treatment for something more temporary?!?!?

Probably not...

[Hapbob]

I really enjoy reading others' perceptions and experience with cars of this type. This is going to be a 3rd fun car and the manual trans is a must. I don't want a vert. Michigan has about 12 days of real summer and those really nice fall days are too rare to align with time you have that day for a drive. I have had 2 BMWs a m235 and m240. Both nice cars and wonderful engine package. But I am sorta agreeing with sportstick that the extra weight and massive power isn't required for this car intended use. Reliability is a crazy thing on both BMW and Mini where if you read through forum's the only thing you find is problems with both vehicles. I get there isn't much to post if you're having no problems with car. Part of the fun of your "fun" car is keeping it running, polishing and maybe a mod or two. I can't see having satisfaction doing those things with a Toyota or Honda. I also have had a Miata and I am not cut out for a 2-seat machine. I will keep looking and researching that is also part of the fun for me. I am also hoping sportstick will message me with the offer to buy his "2" series because he has decided to get a new Tesla.
Thanks to everyone for inputs.

Hap

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Hapbob

I am also hoping sportstick will message me with the offer to buy his "2" series because he has decided to get a new Tesla.

[USA-RET]

I have both. A 2017 M240i and a 2019 Mini Cooper F56 S. Love both cars. We had a 2015 F56 that we traded for the 2019 (as I wanted to maintain a factory warranty). Both of the Mini's were pretty much trouble free. We had an issue with the AC drain line on the 2015 not being connected properly when assembled, but that problem was easily fixed at the dealership.

If I had to choose between the BMW and the Mini Cooper S, I'd keep the Mini. Car is perfect for two people with plenty of room to ride in and haul lots of stuff (with rear seats folded, it's like a little station wagon). I fit a 55 inch LG flat screen in the Mini as was able to close the hatch. It has never failed us in the hauling department.

Fun factor is 100% in the Mini as it is nimble and plenty peppy. We opted for the JCW tune when we ordered the car (I always opted for some light weight wheels and tires too). So it has a little extra in the HP and TQ area and is very nimble. I find that driving a slower car fast is a lot more fun that driving a faster car slow. Our BMW has a Dinan Elite tune and I don't find the opportunity to stretch it's legs (w/o risking a ticket). The Mini is plenty fast enough to enjoy dodging through traffic and briskly accelerating w/o garnering much attention.

We get approx 30 MPG around town with the little 4 cyl motor. Fit and finish in the Mini is comparable to the BMW (since it is for all intents a BM-Lite).

I can say that we will likely always own a Mini Cooper (especially if the 2023 EV model has a longer range). If you like to "row through gears", it may be exactly the car you want. We chose the automatic and the ZF in sport mode and set to manual can bang shifts like a stick.

I may sound like a Mini Cooper salesman, but I'm not. Just one happy owner that appreciates a well appointed, engineered, and fun car to own and drive.

[morphomeman]

Driving a slower car fast: I bought a Honda Fit with a manual a dozen years ago. It had to be special ordered because the dealer could not move a Fit without an automatic off the lot. I beat the hell out of that little thing, revving to the max in every gear to get it to move. half a dozen years later, when the 2-series was in its second year, I handed the Fit over to my daughter and ordered a 235. I still have the 235 and she still has the Fit. About 100K miles on it and it runs like a top. Every once in a while, when she visits, she lets me drive. Still tons of fun!

[Shovelman]

I have owned several small cars with small motors;

Ford sedan with flathead V8
Beetle with 36 hp motor
Karman Ghia with 40 hp motor
Another beetle with the same 36 hp motor
Opel Rekord with 1.9 l motor
Falcon with 170 hp motor
Chevette with 1.6 l motor
Geo Metro with 1.0 l motor
Chevy Firenza with 1.8 l motor (auto trans)
Chevy Prizm with 1.8 l motor(auto trans)

None was turbocharged and only the last one was fuel injected. None of them would exceed 100 mph with a following breeze.

In 2017 I moved up to a 230. For me this IS a high powered car.

[freakystyly]

When 0-60 times went from a yes / no to a low single digit number?

The speed limits still haven't really changed.

And yes, minis are great. I've only test driven the first two "new" generations but they were a blast around town. I was cross shopping the JCW with this for a bit, but the 240 is a totally different animal.