[TCS4339R]

I have been asking about the m240, but I see that the 230i was available with the Adaptive suspension with the Track Handling Package. In looking at the specs, the 230 is, of course, slower than the m240, but acceleration is not my priority. I like to go around corners fast. This car will replace my Lotus Europa as my fun toy. I've owned one for 32 years, so that shows what I value. However, the Europa is no longer friendly to my 74 y.o. body.
How likely am I to find a 230i with the thp? I believe this is significantly better handling than the M Sport suspension, is that correct? (A convertible is a requirement for my bucket list.)
Thanks, John

[Mogki]

I'm not too sure about how the convertible would feel in difference but I have a 230i and it does a relatively good job of keeping you comfortable right up to the edge of traction.

Generally playing around with the the seat and bolstering settings and even when throwing it into turns the car handles it like a champ while still keeping you planted and comfortable at least in the non vert 230

[TCS4339R]

Mogki, which suspension does your 230 have? And, I guess I should ask, which seats?
Thanks, from an ex-New Jersey resident, now in NW Vermont.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by TCS4339R

How likely am I to find a 230i with the thp? (A convertible is a requirement for my bucket list.)

I suspect few of these were made. You may need to keep a sharp eye out so that you don't miss out when one comes on the market.

[MarcoZandrini]

At one of my HPDE at Virginia International Raceway there was a 230i in my group. It was no slouch down the straights and it did handle better than my M240i!!! The 230i has a perfect 50/50 fore/aft weight distribution. The M240i has a weight distribution of about 53/47 fore aft. It does make a difference. If the 230i doesn't have the power you want it's easy to upgrade. Be advised that the engine computer (DME) is locked on bimmers starting with model year 2020. However, there are shops that can unlock the DME and reflash it with higher performance software.

[Mogki]

Originally Posted by TCS4339R

Mogki, which suspension does your 230 have? And, I guess I should ask, which seats?
Thanks, from an ex-New Jersey resident, now in NW Vermont.

I have the normal leather seats and regular suspension, it's still my daily driver.

It is my first BMW so some of the code and options I don't understand but under a vin decoder this is listed;

7AC Sport Line
481 Sport Seats F Driver/front Passenger
488 Lumbar Support Driver/front Passenger

all seems pretty regular in person but still the car is very forgiving for how it handles it's a very good all rounder

[Ajowhan]

So I went on Cargurus, select 230i convertible nationwide and there is about 47 listed. Look through about 10-15 of them and I couldnt find one that says track handling package. I would say the chance of you finding one in your area is very very low.

The track handling package looks like it comes standard on the m240i so if it is all the same for you, maybe you can consider the m240i too.

Otherwise, my m240i even in comfort mode doesnt have too bad of a suspension, it handles better than the lexus is f sport with supposedly improved handling. Still one hell of a car!

[TCS4339R]

Thanks to all for your input. I had originally been looking at the m240, or even m235, convertible. But after reading the performance figures for them and the 230, and realizing that corners, not acceleration, are what I enjoy about driving. But it does appear that the adjustable suspension is quite rare on the 230. So, I will need to be patient, flexible and lucky. Either model would be great, so no real downside. I just have a tendency to want “the hot setup”, to quote Satch Carlson from long ago.
John

[XutvJet]

It's my understanding that the THP on 230 is stiffer springs and the M Performance shocks from the M235/240, but the Comfort/Sport shock setting reduced a bit. This is why Dinan's shockware programming works on the 230, but not the M235/240. Basically the programming just dials up the valving to the M Performance setting.

I would avoid any turbo 4 BMWs as the Company's reliability record isn't great and the motor sounds pretty diesel-ish and the power pretty focused on the mid-range. The B58 has power everywhere and pulls straight to the 7000rpm redline. That's a rarity for a current turbo motor. Plus it sounds miles better. You might not need all the power the B58 provides, but it will make for the more enjoyable driving experience, IMO.

Lastly, there isn't a huge price difference between the 230 and M240. With a used M240, you know you're getting all the M Performance goodies like the B58, better oil cooling, the suspension, the steering wheel, the more aggressive front and rear bumper covers, the brakes, and the wheels. With the 230, it can be a missed bag. Finding a 230 convertible with the THP will likely be next to impossible and if you find it, it will likely be pricey. Finding an M240 convertible will be far easier.

[TCS4339R]

XutvJet
Thanks, very good points, biggest plus for the 230 would be lighter front/balance.
I do need to do better research on the four cylinder turbo engines. My daily driver is a 435ix GC.

[p912guy]

Agree with others, THP on 228 or 230 basically gets you what M235 or M240 comes with as standard equipment regarding suspension. I think most would agree and certainly some vehemently argue, all things being equal, the lighter 4 cylinder engine in the 228 or 230 translates to better balance and handling vs the 235 or 240. That said, I have an M235 with a 6 MT (no MP differential) and the handling capabilities of my car far extend beyond my skills as a driver or my desire to play Grand Prix in the twisties on regular roads / streets.

[BEM-S4]

I don't know that 4 vs 6 cyl makes a hell of a lot of difference in convertible land. I've had 6 cyl both coupe and convertible, the convertible compromises probably a bigger issue than the extra weight up front. That said I haven't driven a 4-cyl convertible ever so my comparison set is incomplete. I drove a 4 cyl coupe way back when. The inline 6 is just a quintessential BMW feature for me.

[Mogki]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

I don't know that 4 vs 6 cyl makes a hell of a lot of difference in convertible land. I've had 6 cyl both coupe and convertible, the convertible compromises probably a bigger issue than the extra weight up front. That said I haven't driven a 4-cyl convertible ever so my comparison set is incomplete. I drove a 4 cyl coupe way back when. The inline 6 is just a quintessential BMW feature for me.

You get nothing nothing nothing then the engine wakes up at like 3500rpm a nice boost then shift and back to nothing until you are in that range again; I should have waited to get a 235 or 240 but still it's a hell of a lot better than my last a car a sonata

[TCS4339R]

“the convertible compromises probably a bigger issue than the extra weight up front”

Could you please explain this statement? Does it refer to the greater rigidity of the coupe chassis? Would this make a real world difference in driving on the street, as opposed to the track, WA a no matter how spirited?

[XutvJet]

Seeing that the convertible weighs over 300lbs more than the hardtop and much of the convertible wizardy, reinforcement, and weight sits in the middle of the car, I have hard time seeing it's weight balance being ~53/47 like the RWD M240. The attached link shows 50.6/49.4 for the M235 convertible. The B58 is about 50lb heavier than the N55 so figure 51/49 for the M240. https://www.carfolio.com/bmw-m235i-convertible-491040

If you really want to dial out a lot of understeer in the M235/M240, all that's needed is a 245/35R18 18x8 square wheel setup. It makes HUGE difference in front end grip. Huge.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1370118

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Mogki

You get nothing nothing nothing then the engine wakes up at like 3500rpm a nice boost then shift and back to nothing until you are in that range again; I should have waited to get a 235 or 240 but still it's a hell of a lot better than my last a car a sonata

I have a Stage 1 Dinan on my 328 wagon (can't get a 6-cyl) woke it up quite a bit... might be worth looking into. The downside on the 235 is you barely breathe on the throttle and you're already going too fast, especially if you do a Stage 2 tune like I did.

[Ajowhan]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Seeing that the convertible weighs over 300lbs more than the hardtop and much of the convertible wizardy, reinforcement, and weight sits in the middle of the car, I have hard time seeing it's weight balance being ~53/47 like the RWD M240. The attached link shows 50.6/49.4 for the M235 convertible. The B58 is about 50lb heavier than the N55 so figure 51/49 for the M240. https://www.carfolio.com/bmw-m235i-convertible-491040

If you really want to dial out a lot of understeer in the M235/M240, all that's needed is a 245/35R18 18x8 square wheel setup. It makes HUGE difference in front end grip. Huge.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1370118

Seriously digging that m2 rims looks over lots of the aftermarket rims. Love itttt!

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Ajowhan

Seriously digging that m2 rims looks over lots of the aftermarket rims. Love itttt!

Thanks. They look far better in person too and when rolling. They look like 19s. They're cheap, robust, and built by the same company that make the OEM rims for BMW.

[dradernh]

One thing to be aware of is that Vermont is pretty much all twisties unless you're on I-89 or I-91. It is a terrific driver's state, one that rewards lighter, balanced cars at any power level. The owner of a race shop I used in Chester drove a stock NA Miata and swore it was the best car for Vermont roads. I was over there a lot and didn't doubt it.

OP says "My daily driver is a 435ix GC."; doesn't sound like he needs another 6-cylinder car. Still, a 230 convertible with THP isn't going to be easy to locate or grab before someone else gets to it.

Originally Posted by Mogki

You get nothing nothing nothing then the engine wakes up at like 3500rpm a nice boost then shift and back to nothing until you are in that range again

I don't know – doesn't look so bad to me; I'd've bought one if I'd been able to find it with THP, and before someone else snapped-up the two I did find before I got to them:

[msej449]

I have to disagree about the 230 being a better balanced and handling car than the M235i/M240i.

You'll find almost no one in Europe who will say this. This whole 230 balance thing is a US view. And no one expressed it at all for some time, until Road & Track declared it to be the One Truth, because the M235i reviews had been so relentlessly positive they had to say something different.

I test drove both for a day and simply didn't find this better balance thing to be the case at all. But of course, if you test drive both and your view is that you prefer the 230, then that's absolutely reasonable. I personally think that a 218d convertible has considerable merits, albeit it wasn't for me. All I'd say is to make sure you try them out, is all.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by msej449

You'll find almost no one in Europe who will say this. This whole 230 balance thing is a US view. And no one expressed it at all for some time, until Road & Track declared it to be the One Truth, because the M235i reviews had been so relentlessly positive they had to say something different.

This is the comparison. Very interesting I must say. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...mparison-test/

Seeing that the M235 in the test was only 0.46 seconds off the lap pace of the M2, I've always wondered what a square 245/35R18 tire setup and a basic tune would have done for the M235. I would imagine it would be real close. Probably within a .1 or .2 seconds. I still absolutely love the M2 though.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

This is the comparison. Very interesting I must say. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...mparison-test/

Seeing that the M235 in the test was only 0.46 seconds off the lap pace of the M2, I've always wondered what a square 245/35R18 tire setup and a basic tune would have done for the M235. I would imagine it would be real close. Probably within a .1 or .2 seconds. I still absolutely love the M2 though.

That's the review that told me I'd be happy with either the 228/230 or the M235/M240. Baruth spends little time discussing the 235, making it sound, comparatively, like a dog, especially due to its minimal steering feedback, but I was always going to mod my car for the track and knew that most of his points would be addressed by those mods.

Here are some of the gems in the review, which is well worth reading:

"this [RWD] M2 would be quite happy with five cogs or even four." LOVED this one; I mean, hello!, right?

"Turning off [the M2's] Dynamic Stability Control kills the rev-match, although you'd be foolhardy to do so with a relatively powerful rear-wheel-drive car on an unknown road." This is something every 6-cylinder 2 Series owner should be aware of. I'm guessing most owners never turn DSC fully off, except where they know what's around the next corner.

"The 1M...gives the distinct impression that [its] tires were fitted after the fact by a 16-year-old who also hammered out the fenders to fit. It displays all the classic tuner-car behaviors, from a disturbing variance in steering feel at different wheel angles to significant sensitivity under trail braking." I drove one of these on a handling track, and it was distinctly out of its element. Otherwise, it's a very nice BMW.

"It was balance that made the 2002 and its successors legendary, and this 228i has it in spades. The steering: light as a feather but as truthful in your hands as an electric rack could possibly be."

"Around North Palm [race circuit], the 228i is simply brilliant. Yes, it leans more in turns than the M235i or M2, and yes, the two-liter feels a little out of breath at all times. But everything about it works."

"The 228i? It inspires total confidence and makes you feel like you're a better driver than you probably are."

"I fall in love with the 228i all over again. There's so much more involvement on tap, from the extra shifts you need to keep the two-liter on its torque peak to the fingertip delicacy of turn-in at the fastest corners." This one is dedicated to Mogki, who may have more car than he realizes.

"BMW drivers have traditionally looked for balance. They want something that can approximate the highway character of a Mercedes and the track-day focus of a Porsche in a single, tightly wrapped package."

"The 228i is our unanimous favorite. It's not really a modern E30 M3, but it captures that car's accessibility and agile spirit. Yes, the new M2 is brilliant, and the M235i is competent, but the 228i is special on both road and track."