[Jamesjedi]

Looking at options for a 228i w 6 speed and sport mode. Not a race car. Looking for coil over or spring, or sway options. Thanks for any input.

[230iZTR]

Depends on how much you want to spend and how fast you want to go?

Plenty of people (and I lump myself in with this lot) have thrown camber plates, lowering springs, brake pads, Dot4 brake fluid, a square 255 width 200TW wheel/tire package, and a diff on the car and been really happy. Liquidpaper (Stock + H&R Springs) and dradernh (TC Kline reworked Konis) have the best build threads for the 'biggest improvement for least money' track builds. Emulating them will get you on track safely without going too deep.

If you're going to beat the hell out of the car on track and lap times matter, several forum members - notably capt_and (Ohlins R&T, later MCS), msendit (KW V3's), and Dylan86 (KW Clubsport-3's) - have gone much further in their track builds. All of them use 2- or 3-way adjustable coilovers, limited slip differentials, and big brakes.

The OG track build when the 2-er first came out was GSR Autosport's development of the 228i for the IMSA Pro-Am Challenge "Street Tuner" class (thread contains many broken links and images). Their build used KW Clubsport-2's and a Wavetrac LSD. I believe GSR folded prior to completing the homologation program and never actually ran in the series, but JDC-Miller Motorsports ran a 228i Street Tuner during the 2016 season (and they don't have a presence on the forum). In 2017 there was a major rules restructuring that led to Street Tuner being replaced by the global Touring Car (TCR) ruleset and the 228i ST was replaced by the factory-built m235iR and m240iR touring cars.

[Jamesjedi]

Terrific information. Thanks for the effort.

Yes, not to deep is important. Really - just fun.

This sounds interesting:

“camber plates, lowering springs, brake pads, Dot4 brake fluid, a square 255 width 200TW”

The springs would not be a match to the shock. Maybe not an issue.

No sway bar change?

Thanks again.

[230iZTR]

Originally Posted by Jamesjedi

The springs would not be a match to the shock. Maybe not an issue.

The m-sport, sportline, track package m-adaptive, and m-performance parts dealer installed suspension are all reasonably competent. They'll be fine with stiffer springs as long as you're not going with a spring rate so high it needs retuned dampers. I went with the Swift Spec-R springs (250#F, 600#R) and believe they're the stiffest on the market for an off-the-shelf kit. I think the OEM's are around 190#F, 400#R by comparison.

If you've got the luxury line or standard line suspensions (both are way too soft) or don't want to bother with trying to get the most out of the stock dampers, just go straight to Ohlins R&T's or KW ClubSports.

Originally Posted by Jamesjedi

No sway bar change?

The m-sport, sportline, and track package cars already have sway bars. They aren't the best or the biggest, but they're serviceable enough that changing them out right away isn't going to be as big a difference as camber plates, more front tire, or an LSD. If you've already got the suspension and diff out, you might as well do it while its easy. But its such a pain in the ass to swap them and isn't transformational by itself so most treat it as a nice-to-have rather than a must-do. I can't speak from experience, but I'd assume that sway bars probably make a bigger difference if you stick with a very soft spring like the OEM units.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Jamesjedi

No sway bar change?

Make sure you get an LSD if you're serious about getting anything worthwhile out of a car like ours.

After my initial street/track upgrade (https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1532418), and after I'd driven the car a handful of laps, I asked TC Kline what I could do to tighten-up the car exiting turns like the Keyhole at Mid-Ohio.

The Keyhole is a slightly downhill, slightly off-camber, moderate-grip turn leading onto the fastest section of the course. It's a place where an additional mile or two an hour at track-out pays a significant dividend during the subsequent 15 seconds of straight. That section has quite a bit to do with lap times on what is otherwise very much a handling track, a circumstance at which our very heavy cars do not excel. That's our basic reality check as 2 Series owners.

TC knew that I'd run fully-built race cars in time trials and understood what I was asking for. He said that the H&R front sway bar was the next step to take. Mind you, TC knows what stock BMW suspensions need for track work. He knows it because he buys the cars from a local dealer, puts his suspensions on them, and then takes them to Mid-Ohio for testing and tuning. I've owned a number of street/track and race BMWs and am confident in saying that he has terrific street/track setups for drivers like us.

Back to the sway bar issue: I bought the H&R front sway bar (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-h-and-r-...it/70878-2~hr/); this is my installed cost breakdown (I don't wrench):

H&R 28mm Front Sway Bar w/2 Holes of Adjustment: $$399.33 shipped
Labor: $385.00
Tax on Labor: $54.90 (I live in a state that charges tax on labor)
Total: $839.23 Installed

If you're wondering why the labor was so high, changing front sway bars on modern cars frequently takes a lot of time.

In my opinion, when upgrading our cars to meaningfully increase handling performance, this is another example of how the law of diminishing returns sets in fairly early.

Bottom Line / TLDR: skip the sway bar unless you're racing or running with NASA or another hard-core time trial club and are looking for every last tenth of a second. Or, you simply want to get the most out of your car with an upgrade that doesn't significantly degrade your DD/street-driving experience.

[msendit]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Bottom Line / TLDR: skip the sway bar unless you're racing or running with NASA or another hard-core time trial club and are looking for every last tenth of a second. Or, you simply want to get the most out of your car with an upgrade that doesn't significantly degrade your DD/street-driving experience.

I followed your explanation until the Bottom line, which (in my humble opinion) is off and doesn't follow from the rest. You had a handling problem, and the sway bar solved it pretty easily. Bonus point, now you have the adjustability for other tracks where exit speed from an off-camber corner is way less critical.

In the costs thread, you had your running costs at roughly $800 / track-hour. $400 in labor is ... half an hour of track time. Or one (1) track tire. Or repainting half a body panel after a ding in a parking lot. On a car that's so heavy on consumables usage, that's next to nothing for the improved handling.

(Though to be fair, I'd be surprised if a bigger front swaybar only generated a better-balanced car overall. I'm sure it solved that particular corner problem. But I've ran my car in a very similar config to yours for quite a while, and its defining handling characteristic over several tracks was corner entry understeer, to the point of really needing the brakes to get it turned. A bigger front bar is the opposite direction of how I'd try to balance it.)

[Jamesjedi]

Thanks again for the replies!

Square setup? 18x9’s?

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by msendit

I followed your explanation until the Bottom line, which (in my humble opinion) is off and doesn't follow from the rest. You had a handling problem, and the sway bar solved it pretty easily. Bonus point, now you have the adjustability for other tracks where exit speed from an off-camber corner is way less critical.

In the costs thread, you had your running costs at roughly $800 / track-hour. $400 in labor is ... half an hour of track time. Or one (1) track tire. Or repainting half a body panel after a ding in a parking lot. On a car that's so heavy on consumables usage, that's next to nothing for the improved handling.

(Though to be fair, I'd be surprised if a bigger front swaybar only generated a better-balanced car overall. I'm sure it solved that particular corner problem. But I've ran my car in a very similar config to yours for quite a while, and its defining handling characteristic over several tracks was corner entry understeer, to the point of really needing the brakes to get it turned. A bigger front bar is the opposite direction of how I'd try to balance it.)

Thanks, as this helps me to see that I left out what I intended to be my key point: the sway bar simply didn't make enough difference to me and my driving to make it worth the cost, keeping in mind that the car is developed for street/track, the emphasis being, by far, on street.

For example, as an alternative, more negative camber would have given me as much improvement and likely a fair amount more. As little as I drive the car, the increased tire wear from the additional camber wouldn't have been a consideration. (I'm happy to put fresh rubber on at the drop of a hat.) I heard TC tell another street/track driver who said he only drove 1K per year on the street to go full-out on negative camber; I should probably consider that, even though I'm not going to the track anymore.

Even with my street/track camber setup, I'm totally in love with how the car responds when I ask it to drive around roadway surface imperfections or dive down to the apex of a street or highway turn when sightlines permit that to be done safely.

My overall judgement is basically a bang-for-the-buck view. Did the sway bar help? Yes, it did. However, for my use case it made less of a difference than I expected. I understand that another driver might come to a different conclusion. As far as the cost goes...well, our hobby is what it is.

Now, if I had it to do over again, would I still install the sway bar? Yes, of course I would.

To your point regarding understeer: I continue to consider our cars' weights to be their most significant limiting factor. We can add as much power as we choose to, and that will help us on the straights, but when compared to lighter cars, wrestling our cars around turns will always be a test of patience.

With your lighter race car, I imagine that you can discuss this with greater insight than I can. My most satisfying experience in this regard was a car running a pit-out weight of 2,893#. The Miata guys weren't impressed.

[230iZTR]

Originally Posted by Jamesjedi

Thanks again for the replies!

Square setup? 18x9’s?

Yeah. I've got a set of 17x9et42's Apex Arc8-R's and 5mm spacers in front with square 255/40/17 RE71R's for track duty; and I daily on 18x9et45 SSR's and 12mm spacers in front with the (for now) stock staggered MPSS's. Probably going to squared 245/40/18 or 255/35/18 MPS4S this summer.

I've got 2.5-deg camber from the Vorshlag plates in front and 2-deg using stock adjustment range in the rear. The front inner fender lip is rolled for max clearance. Its a real tight fit with 255's.

Unfortunately you have to add camber to fit the wider wheels. If you're not ready to add camber just yet, several users have been successful with 17x8et40-ish and 235's. You definitely want the camber though. This car eats tires alive if you don't.

[Jamesjedi]

Great thread. Helpful.

What springs? H and R or....?

Which camber plates? Adjustable or fixed? There is a point of diminishing returns.

This part is IMPORTANT - does the car require oiling modifications to the engine for track duty??

Cheers!

[Jamesjedi]

Wavetrac is $1200 plus $700 install kit!!! Ouch.

[SkyeC]

I have Millway camber plates; nothing bad to say about them.

My set-up is stock suspension w/ 245/35 square but not a big fan of the tires for track use since they're street tires of course.

Want to move to 255/35 square, eyeing a set of 18x9 +39 Sparcos on Tire Rack for $175/each and 255/35 Nexen Sur4G for $100/each... I should be able to use this with -2.5 front/-2 rear yeah? Assuming 10-15mm spacers in front.

[Jamesjedi]

They are inexpensive. I do not see them locally.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Jamesjedi

Wavetrac is $1200 plus $700 install kit!!! Ouch.

For a limited slip differential installed by a shop, you can generally plan on around $2500-3000 USD.

I'd recommend installing stiffer differential bushings at the same time. ECS shows examples here: https://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-F22-22.../Differential/.

[fatsport]

Guys looking for a deal on 18x9s, I just got a set of these from Tire Rack. 18x9 +45, $181 each
https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/Whee...r=Shadow+Sport

Stock center caps fit. Rear fit great with -1.7 camber. Fronts are tight, I’m at -1.9 with M3 LCA & tension struts.

[tcollier91]

Originally Posted by dradernh

For a limited slip differential installed by a shop, you can generally plan on around $2500-3000 USD.

I'd recommend installing stiffer differential bushings at the same time. ECS shows examples here: https://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-F22-22.../Differential/.

I see diff bushings are a common item when doing the LSD, what about subframe bushings? Would they be tolerable for a DD?

[230iZTR]

Originally Posted by dradernh

For a limited slip differential [...] ECS shows examples here: https://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-F22-22.../Differential/.

Note: the M-Perf LSD does not fit the 228i/230i due to the axles being different (both in diameter and spline). Those parts may be able to be ordered as well, but I'm not 100% sure on that, and it would likely be expensive. I do believe the DiffsOnline LSD's are bespoke and would therefore work.

Update: in 2023, IPOS Motorsport released a retrofit kit to fit the m-performance diff into a 2.0T base car.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by tcollier91

I see diff bushings are a common item when doing the LSD, what about subframe bushings? Would they be tolerable for a DD?

Thanks for the question, as subframe bushings are what I meant to suggest, not the differential bushings in the link I posted.

I have Turner's aluminum subframe bushings on my M240i (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-turner-m...021450tms01~a/). ECS shows the kit also fits the 228i/230i. I don't have upgraded differential bushings and have no experience with them.

I had the Turner bushings installed after 1,972 highway miles, so I didn't have much to compare them to in terms of ride comfort on the street. I don't have any complaints, though, and I drive on streets and roads of varying quality in the Midwest.

Originally Posted by 230iZTR

Note: the M-Perf LSD does not fit the 228i/230i due to the axles being different (both in diameter and spline). Those parts may be able to be ordered as well, but I'm not 100% sure on that, and it would likely be expensive. I do believe the DiffsOnline LSD's are bespoke and would therefore work.

See my comments just above. Sorry for any confusion.

[Shadowfax028]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Thanks for the question, as subframe bushings are what I meant to suggest, not the differential bushings in the link I posted.

I have Turner's aluminum subframe bushings on my M240i (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-turner-motorsport-parts/turner-f22-f30-aluminum-solid-subframe-mount-kit/021450tms01~a/). ECS shows the kit also fits the 228i/230i. I don't have upgraded differential bushings and have no experience with them.

I had the Turner bushings installed after 1,972 highway miles, so I didn't have much to compare them to in terms of ride comfort on the street. I don't have any complaints, though, and I drive on streets and roads of varying quality in the Midwest.

See my comments just above. Sorry for any confusion.

I had the Turner aluminum sub-frame bushing in my m235i. As far as NVH goes this is a no Brainer mod. I personally felt it was one of the overall best mods I did.

I installed a MP LSD at the same time. About 1200 in Labor too. Don't forget to code out the ediff software.

[Jamesjedi]

Update, I bought an M235i 2015 track edition. Sunroof delete six speed manual transmission and limited slip differential. I just ordered a square setup of 18x9 et 40. Will require camber plates to fit.

Bang for the buck is what I need. At a certain point you will not be any happier. At least I hope.

Thoughts on springs; https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1840982


Are they an improvement over stock? Are the springs just cosmetic, do they unsettle the car?

[230iZTR]

Originally Posted by Jamesjedi

Bang for the buck is what I need.

Seems like a solid setup. I'd also recommend track pads, high temp brake fluid, and a Schroth Quick Fit Pro harness. It helps tremendously to not be sliding around behind the wheel.

Are [springs] an improvement over stock? Are the springs just cosmetic, do they unsettle the car?

I'm really happy with my Swift Spec-R's (F30 fitment, so ~250#F/600#R). I feel like the car is woefully undersprung from the factory (~180#F/400#R) and especially in the front. My gut is that the soft springs were compressing and changing the geometry around too much and/or making the bumpstops do the work, which made it a little unpredictable. Changing to a higher spring rate fixed that and made the car feel more consistent to me, but I did the springs, camber plates, and Dinan Shockware tune at the same time so its hard to say how much to attribute the improvement to just the springs as opposed to the other components.

Plus reducing the fender gap really does make a big aesthetic difference. If you've already got the suspension pulled off for the camber plates, you might as well do the springs at the same time.

[Jamesjedi]

Springs, I like the cost. Maybe they are good enough.