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      07-16-2019, 08:37 AM   #23
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I think it is silly that so many folks do exactly what you profess they do in your OP, you are absolutely correct. But, that is their prerogative and they are welcome to frivolously spend their money however they desire. Is it a bit ridiculous? In my opinion, and it seems yours, it is, but it may not be so in their opinion.

I guess my major question is - why do you care so much what other people do with their money? I am a CPA and don't believe in debt nor do I think it is smart to buy many cars as compared to net worth that so many do. As such, I have never bought a new car in my life because I feel it is completely foolish to take that depreciation hit. I also think leasing is absolutely terrible as it relates to sound financial decisions, but many folks do it. Are they making stupid financial choices? I think so.

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      07-16-2019, 08:46 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Meh - with respect to the OP and your comments, you kind of prove his point.

I've had three cars since my daughter was born: A 2013 BMW E93, a 2002 Ferrari 360 Spider, and a 2016 MINI Cooper S. None have had more than two doors and I've managed just fine. She is now almost 5 years old. In addition, my 76yo mother in law and 70yo mother get in and out of these cars just fine.

Not saying it is bad for you to go and buy a 4 door, but don't think it is a must just because you have a kid. Many folks, including me, have only had 2 door cars and get along just fine.

On this side of the pond, I see so many people say "oh no, I had a kid, need to sell my Honda Accord and go by a massive 3 row Chevy Suburban because I need the room". What the fuck.
While I agree the sentiment most people have that once a kid is in the picture, one needs what amounts to a school bus is absurd. But in my situation, having my 4 door C-HR now has certainly made life easier for me. I've driven my daughter around since being born till earlier this year in my E82....4 years total. The challenges I had is that the car seat would take up a ton of space which limited the size of the passenger I could have in the front passenger seat. This got worse as my daughter got bigger. And she is taking after me in terms of height. I'm 6'5". So the amount of space she needs when strapped in has also grown to the point, I can't really take anyone in the front passenger seat unless they're kid of max age of around 12.

And the back seat area behind me? Forget about it. No one is sitting behind me with the driver's seat adjusted for my long legs. So for about a year or so, if I was driving my daughter around, that's it. I couldn't take anyone else. When I got the 4 door C-HR, it was nice I could now not worry about having my daughter with me and not being able to take anyone else in my car. I can now take 2 more people (and probably a third behind me) in addition to my daughter on various trips/errands. I couldn't do any of that with my E82.
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      07-16-2019, 08:51 AM   #25
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I'm picking up what you're laying down. It's that way with most products now as we are all such gulibale little consumers.
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      07-16-2019, 09:13 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Meh - with respect to the OP and your comments, you kind of prove his point.

I've had three cars since my daughter was born: A 2013 BMW E93, a 2002 Ferrari 360 Spider, and a 2016 MINI Cooper S. None have had more than two doors and I've managed just fine. She is now almost 5 years old. In addition, my 76yo mother in law and 70yo mother get in and out of these cars just fine.

Not saying it is bad for you to go and buy a 4 door, but don't think it is a must just because you have a kid. Many folks, including me, have only had 2 door cars and get along just fine.

On this side of the pond, I see so many people say "oh no, I had a kid, need to sell my Honda Accord and go by a massive 3 row Chevy Suburban because I need the room". What the fuck.

This is so true

I don't have kids, but back in Europe I have my first car (330Ci 5MT) being driven by one of my sisters. 2 kids, daily driver since they were born.
It can work just fine.

One does not need a stupid ass van or SUV to carry two kids. Learn to limit the kind of crap they are allowed to take on outings and that's it. The discipline may also avoid them from becoming spoiled little brats.
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      07-16-2019, 09:16 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Meh - with respect to the OP and your comments, you kind of prove his point.

I've had three cars since my daughter was born: A 2013 BMW E93, a 2002 Ferrari 360 Spider, and a 2016 MINI Cooper S. None have had more than two doors and I've managed just fine. She is now almost 5 years old. In addition, my 76yo mother in law and 70yo mother get in and out of these cars just fine.

Not saying it is bad for you to go and buy a 4 door, but don't think it is a must just because you have a kid. Many folks, including me, have only had 2 door cars and get along just fine.

On this side of the pond, I see so many people say "oh no, I had a kid, need to sell my Honda Accord and go by a massive 3 row Chevy Suburban because I need the room". What the fuck.

This is so true

I don't have kids, but back in Europe I have my first car (330Ci 5MT) being driven by one of my sisters. 2 kids, daily driver since they were born.
It can work just fine.

One does not need a stupid ass van or SUV to carry two kids. Learn to limit the kind of crap they are allowed to take on outings and that's it. The discipline may also avoid them from becoming spoiled little brats.
Agreed It's amazing how people are taught they need so much 'stuff' to raise a kid. It's so not true.

From what I've seen the larger cars people buy the more 'stuff' they keep taking. Stuff they don't need...stuff nobody needs! Haha
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      07-16-2019, 09:21 AM   #28
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I'm also surprised by what I've seen where people have dumped cars they've only had for a few months purchased new; citing some issue that they couldn't live with. Makes me wonder if the decision to buy the car was even thought out at all. While one can chalk this up to a snap impulse/emotion of the moment, I'm seeing situations like this is not all that rare.

I have shown that I do keep my vehicles for a long time. Had a 94 Cavalier Z24 which I drove 12 years till I scraped the car because it had blown a head gasket at around 160k miles. That's when I picked up a 2006 Focus ZX3. Drove that for 8 years and 176k miles till that was totaled out by my insurance company when I hit a deer with it. I would have kept driving that car had it not been for the deer strike. I also had a 94 Camaro Z28. Bought it used in 99 with 60k miles. I sold it when I decided to buy my 135i after having it for 14 years and 101k miles. The car was starting to show its age. A/C compressor seized up, fabric for the head liner was detaching from the foam, power door locks were acting up, driver side window needed a new power window motor, rear main seal was starting to leak. All repairable issues but I just didn't want to dump any more money into it and wanted something different.

While I'm thinking cars a bit of a different animal, I'm finding out holding on to motorcycles can be a bit of a challenge. I currently have two bikes a 2004 ZX-10R and a 2009 848. I had to replace the rear hugger on the ZX. Found out getting a new OEM hugger was not an option as no one had one in stock and Kawasaki stopped making the part. I turned to Fleabay and found an aftermarket carbon fiber replacement. But I've been noticing even aftermarket options are becoming more limited for this bike.

The only thing I guess I can be faulted on with my vehicle purchases is buying new. The Z28 was the only car I bought used. Could I have done better financially if I bought all my vehicles used? Yes. But I figure any depreciation hit gets diluted to an acceptable level being that I do hold on to my vehicles for a very long time.
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      07-16-2019, 09:26 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
Meh - with respect to the OP and your comments, you kind of prove his point.

I've had three cars since my daughter was born: A 2013 BMW E93, a 2002 Ferrari 360 Spider, and a 2016 MINI Cooper S. None have had more than two doors and I've managed just fine. She is now almost 5 years old. In addition, my 76yo mother in law and 70yo mother get in and out of these cars just fine.

Not saying it is bad for you to go and buy a 4 door, but don't think it is a must just because you have a kid. Many folks, including me, have only had 2 door cars and get along just fine.

On this side of the pond, I see so many people say "oh no, I had a kid, need to sell my Honda Accord and go by a massive 3 row Chevy Suburban because I need the room". What the fuck.
It's worth noting the F13 is a special breed of impractical coupes. Rear leg room is worse then any generation 3 or 4 series coupe / convert i'd say. Despite the car being considerably longer.

I will however, vow to never own an SUV
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      07-16-2019, 09:47 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
I'm also surprised by what I've seen where people have dumped cars they've only had for a few months purchased new; citing some issue that they couldn't live with. Makes me wonder if the decision to buy the car was even thought out at all. While one can chalk this up to a snap impulse/emotion of the moment, I'm seeing situations like this is not all that rare.

I have shown that I do keep my vehicles for a long time. Had a 94 Cavalier Z24 which I drove 12 years till I scraped the car because it had blown a head gasket at around 160k miles. That's when I picked up a 2006 Focus ZX3. Drove that for 8 years and 176k miles till that was totaled out by my insurance company when I hit a deer with it. I would have kept driving that car had it not been for the deer strike. I also had a 94 Camaro Z28. Bought it used in 99 with 60k miles. I sold it when I decided to buy my 135i after having it for 14 years and 101k miles. The car was starting to show its age. A/C compressor seized up, fabric for the head liner was detaching from the foam, power door locks were acting up, driver side window needed a new power window motor, rear main seal was starting to leak. All repairable issues but I just didn't want to dump any more money into it and wanted something different.

While I'm thinking cars a bit of a different animal, I'm finding out holding on to motorcycles can be a bit of a challenge. I currently have two bikes a 2004 ZX-10R and a 2009 848. I had to replace the rear hugger on the ZX. Found out getting a new OEM hugger was not an option as no one had one in stock and Kawasaki stopped making the part. I turned to Fleabay and found an aftermarket carbon fiber replacement. But I've been noticing even aftermarket options are becoming more limited for this bike.

The only thing I guess I can be faulted on with my vehicle purchases is buying new. The Z28 was the only car I bought used. Could I have done better financially if I bought all my vehicles used? Yes. But I figure any depreciation hit gets diluted to an acceptable level being that I do hold on to my vehicles for a very long time.
Thank you. Well said. FWIW when I was in middle I thought the Z24 was cool as hell! I wanted one!
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      07-16-2019, 09:50 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by The0pportunist View Post
It's worth noting the F13 is a special breed of impractical coupes. Rear leg room is worse then any generation 3 or 4 series coupe / convert i'd say. Despite the car being considerably longer.

I will however, vow to never own an SUV
Ha. Fair point.


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      07-16-2019, 10:08 AM   #32
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Seeing some friends flop cars all the time blows my mind, as I find cars I like, and hold on to them. Just recently sold a car that I had for 12 years, and my truck that I had for 6, leaving me with my X5 that I have had for 2, and intend to hold on to for quite some time, and my old Honda that I have had for at least 15 years, and have no intention to ever get rid of. That car is more of a toy now, it has more track time than street time in the last 6 years.
Overall I think the same idea applies in other areas of life. I enjoy home a/v, yet my TV is quite a few years old now, and not anything fancy, but it does what I need. I did buy a new receiver and a few newer speakers this year, both high quality and used, and should last my needs for a long time. Bought a new Mtn. bike, but my last ones lasted me 18 years, and I still have it kicking around, yet I see guys trading up to the new models every year... etc.
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      07-16-2019, 10:11 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
This is so true

I don't have kids, but back in Europe I have my first car (330Ci 5MT) being driven by one of my sisters. 2 kids, daily driver since they were born.
It can work just fine.

One does not need a stupid ass van or SUV to carry two kids. Learn to limit the kind of crap they are allowed to take on outings and that's it. The discipline may also avoid them from becoming spoiled little brats.
I beg to differ. Maybe you're not going on vacations or doing different activities but there's no way I would do beach outings without our SUV. Four beach chairs, cooler, umbrella, towels, etc. Could you cram that into an older 3er? Maybe. But why?

We go to Cape Cod some weekends and the whole back of my Grand Cherokee is full (up to my sight line) plus a bike rack on the back. If you have tiny kids, tack a bulky stroller onto that tab. Again... it CAN work in a smaller car, but why? I don't NEED central air in my house but I'm damn glad I have it. At some point, comfort becomes the priority.
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      07-16-2019, 10:20 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
I beg to differ. Maybe you're not going on vacations or doing different activities but there's no way I would do beach outings without our SUV. Four beach chairs, cooler, umbrella, towels, etc. Could you cram that into an older 3er? Maybe. But why?

We go to Cape Cod some weekends and the whole back of my Grand Cherokee is full (up to my sight line) plus a bike rack on the back. If you have tiny kids, tack a bulky stroller onto that tab. Again... it CAN work in a smaller car, but why? I don't NEED central air in my house but I'm damn glad I have it. At some point, comfort becomes the priority.
LOL - Re-read your comment and you will see you are exactly what everyone is laughing about.

I go to the beach all the time, including Hawaii, where I rented a Camaro convertible. My wife, myself, and our daughter managed just fine to put all of our things in there. Same for going to the beach in FL. Never had the need for anything larger than the MINI.

Beach chairs, umbrella, bulky stroller? Good grief man. Perhaps we should get you a butler and personal outdoors aircon unit as well?

It's the beach, man! LOL!

Grab a blanket or two, carry the kiddos, sit on the dirt.


Is this you?







Kidding of course, do what ever you want - but it isn't a need for an SUV, it's a want.
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      07-16-2019, 10:21 AM   #35
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I tend to only hold onto a car for 2-3 years but it's because of the cars that I choose to own. I also don't buy brand new, I try and find one that's a year old and save on the depreciation hit.

I would absolutely never own anything German out of warranty, but that's just a personal preference. These cars have computers that control literally everything, and prices on parts is astronomical so owning a modern car "long term" is just asking for trouble in my eyes, despite you being able to do your own work.

I grew up working on/building 3000GT VR4's/Stealth RT/TT's and for their era they had quite a bit of tech on them. They were still easy enough to work on though and I did everything myself (rebuilt engine/trans/transfer case/rear diff/turbo swap/etc). Something like that I would've kept long term and loved it, but I had to sell my VR4 after college for financial reasons. I still miss it every day. "Older" cars are just more fun and natural to drive than a modern one because of all the tech/electronic everything/etc. But I think that's one of the reasons why people jump cars so often. It's hard to have the same connection with them, and they're just expensive to maintain and keep long term.
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      07-16-2019, 10:29 AM   #36
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Because there are LOTS of awesome toys out there & most of us cannot afford to own them all at the same time. I like to try a bunch of toys.
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      07-16-2019, 10:36 AM   #37
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I view cars as something entirely different from the rest of my life. I have a very stable family/home/career life that I wouldn't trade for anything. Cars are the one avenue where I can have a little fun and sample what's out there. I have no debt, and it keeps the juices flowing.

I couldn't care less what someone else is doing with their money...
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      07-16-2019, 10:40 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
I beg to differ. Maybe you're not going on vacations or doing different activities but there's no way I would do beach outings without our SUV. Four beach chairs, cooler, umbrella, towels, etc. Could you cram that into an older 3er? Maybe. But why?

We go to Cape Cod some weekends and the whole back of my Grand Cherokee is full (up to my sight line) plus a bike rack on the back. If you have tiny kids, tack a bulky stroller onto that tab. Again... it CAN work in a smaller car, but why? I don't NEED central air in my house but I'm damn glad I have it. At some point, comfort becomes the priority.
I do like central AC
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      07-16-2019, 10:41 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
LOL - Re-read your comment and you will see you are exactly what everyone is laughing about.

I go to the beach all the time, including Hawaii, where I rented a Camaro convertible. My wife, myself, and our daughter managed just fine to put all of our things in there. Same for going to the beach in FL. Never had the need for anything larger than the MINI.

Beach chairs, umbrella, bulky stroller? Good grief man. Perhaps we should get you a butler and personal outdoors aircon unit as well?

It's the beach, man! LOL!

Grab a blanket or two, carry the kiddos, sit on the dirt.

Kidding of course, do what ever you want - but it isn't a need for an SUV, it's a want.
I have to have an umbrella (I'm as white as this text box) and I prefer to sit on a chair. Those are not abnormal beach items. In Europe, they have them for rent at most popular beaches, freeing you up from having to lug that shit. I could take a Vespa, too, if all I had to bring was my towel.

I never brought a stroller to the beach but if you have toddlers you need to lug that shit around. My kids are 4 and 6 so I'm past that but we've been to the cape a couple of times already this year and between bikes and clothes, the GC is half full for a long weekend trip. There's a reason why these cars are popular and sporty coupes are dying out...
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      07-16-2019, 10:57 AM   #40
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My daily driver is a truck I bought new in 2003, so I'm hardly the guy the OP is ranting about. .....but as far as why people are trading things in so often;

- leasing - I think you underestimate the impact of this on new car sales. People are much more likely to get another new car if they are leasing vs. if they purchased IMO. The industry has done a great job of making leasing seem like the best thing since sliced bread.

- complexity; newer cars may have much better built drivelines, etc. than cars of old but the sheer number of extremely expensive computers, gizmos, options, screens, etc. conspire to scare the crap out of many people when it comes to owning a car long term off warranty. Even for those of us that aren't just panicking, the cost of repair for some of this stuff is very high.

I've rebuilt several vehicles from the ground up......but that isn't really even possible for the average enthusiast with a modern car these days.

I've argued that buying a near new vehicle and keeping it until it's 100% done is the most economical form of vehicle ownership.....and I have done that many times with my small fleet.....but sometimes it works out well, other times, I've spent more on repairs than the payment for a new car/truck. you take your chances and roll the dice.

I jut bought a brand new BMW last month.....the plan is to keep it for many years but we'll see.

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      07-16-2019, 10:59 AM   #41
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Nothing a wagon wouldn't be better at. I'm kicking around the idea of replacing the spousal SUV with an E450 Touring. She doesn't need the E63 and her commute is too short to really even warm that big lump. I'd love a plug in hybrid version.
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      07-16-2019, 11:05 AM   #42
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Maybe it has to do with the huge leaps in auto tech over the past decade? Companies are doing things with autos now that were absolutely unheard of ten years ago, and making it common place.
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      07-16-2019, 11:14 AM   #43
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Maybe it has to do with the huge leaps in auto tech over the past decade? Companies are doing things with autos now that were absolutely unheard of ten years ago, and making it common place.
That's what I was saying earlier. There's so much available today to make cars, even ten years old, look like a dinosaur. The same can't be said for development over the previous 50 years.
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      07-16-2019, 11:21 AM   #44
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I'm very fortunate to have a lot of space and storage available to me now that I've moved to this house. I will say though, I'm single with no kids.

I've been a life long BMW fan, but the car I really lusted in college was the E92 M3. I skipped class to watch its unveiling. I then had a chance to drive it hard at the Performance Center and was hooked. I ended up finding my car all the way out in California (I'm in South Carolina). Took me 6 months to find the right one (it had to have CF roof and 6MT).

Long story short, I've added an E36 M3 and Z4M Roadster since. I don't plan on selling any of these cars. As a matter of fact, I'm planning on adding a 2016-2017 Toyota Tundra, and this will essentially be my forever fleet unless gas goes $5 per gallon. Then I might consider adding/leasing an electric car.

They just don't make them like this anymore. Fun, possible to work on at home, analogue. The only cars that somewhat interest me are the M2C, Gen V Dodge Vipers, 997 Porsche Turbo/GT3 with 6MT, GT4. But those are completely different price points than what I'm willing to pay.

Btw, 90k miles on a 1M is awesome. Keep it up
__________________
Current:
16 F82 M4 GTS, Black Sapphire/Black, DCT
08 E92 M3, Sparkling Graphite/Bamboo Beige, 6MT
07 E85 Z4M Roadster, Alpine White/Red, 6MT
99 E36 M3, Techno Violet/Dove Grey, 6MT
Appreciate 1
10"4946.00
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