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      07-03-2019, 07:40 PM   #2135
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My wife and I drive 40,000 miles per year between us, and the i3 has been absorbing ~3/4 of those miles. Between not paying for gas (compared to our other 4 M cars, with M fuel economy and 93 octane) and the lack of any required service at all (well, brake fluid), it’s stupidly cheaper for us to have the i3 than not have it.

We bought the car for $19,100 (CPO 2017), which is about what it’ll save us in the first year alone.
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      07-03-2019, 07:58 PM   #2136
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My commute to work dropped from $3.25/day in fuel to about $0.53/day for electric in the i3.

My wife's longer commute dropped from $20.00/day in gas to $3.80/day in electricity with her new Kia Niro EV in the first few weeks of ownership.

Between us, we're saving almost $5,000/year in energy costs.

A friend of mine said that he could never live with an EV, arguing that he takes a long day trip during the holidays to see his family. I pointed out that Enterprise rent-a-car is 8 miles away from his house (well within battery range), and I could rent their most expensive car for that one day per year and still be up $4,800 if I had to make that trip. Not that I have that problem, since we still have two fine ICE cars in the driveway if we need to use them.....
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      07-03-2019, 08:30 PM   #2137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineX View Post
BMW has a residual for i3 that outperforms the market? That sounds like a cost to the manufacturer in order to move inventory. Another example of doctored demand imo. Don't get me wrong, i am a big fan of i3, seriously consider owning one someday.
FYI the M3 and M4 residuals also out perform the market. BMW has a high RV for much of its cars to boost lease sales. This is neither new nor unique to the i3. Its the combination of high lease RV and rebates that create the lease numbers and cheaper secondary market. To argue that there is no demand because the used prices are low ignores one very important factor: market depreciation has the rebates built in. Fed tax rebate is $7500 and state rebates can be as high as $2500. That's a $9500 cap reduction. If and when those go away in the future, the secondary market will be more similar to a traditional ICE.
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      07-03-2019, 09:01 PM   #2138
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Yes, because now less than 1% of the driving population owns an EV; people are now beginning to open up to the technology, so I wasn't exactly expecting the Armageddon. But what happens when EV becomes a fact of life.
I don't follow your logic here. Why is the fact that only a fraction of total cars are EV relevant to the discussion? If we consider only the EV (and hybrid cars) that have been sold over the last 10-15 years, the rate of battery failure is low. Many Tesla Model S are now entering their 200k miles on the original batteries and chugging along just fine. Even more Prius have become third hand beaters and again, running on the same old battery.

Not to say everything is rosy. There has been cases of bad apple models (early Leaf) and some Tesla Model S have seen massive and early battery failures according to some estimate (problem appears to be clustered around models built in late 2013, models prior and after do not appear to suffer, failure was managed by warranty), but at the same time, some ICE models also suffer massive and catastrophic failures (Porsche IMS, RX8, Fiat/Chrisler, ...) so bad apples models is not particularly EV specific. The general picture is that the feared early massive failure of batteries did not materialize according to existing inventory, and arguably the technology is improving at a rapid pace.

Last edited by Meeni; 07-03-2019 at 09:06 PM..
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      07-03-2019, 09:08 PM   #2139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeni View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
They use a lithium ion battery that can last for up to 6 years, mileage undetermined. Pretty robust cell units.

It's still a battery and has to the potential to wear out, however reasonable, with a cost to replace around 12 - $15,000, so that in itself put it in the negative column, IMO.

I'm sure the quality and longevity of the battery would improve as the technology process but for now, it's still just a niche product.
The Prius that have been out there for 12 years are still mostly running on the orignal batteries, and that's 12 yo tech in a field thats still so fresh the paint has not yet dried. Thus far, at the exception of the Leaf fiasco, there has been no indication of a looming battery apocalypse.
Yes, because now less than 1% of the driving population owns an EV; people are now beginning to open up to the technology, so I wasn't exactly expecting the Armageddon. But what happens when EV becomes a fact of life.

Look, maybe my worries about the battery are a little unfounded but the fact is, it still operates solely with a finite battery and that comes with its own set of cons of which I can't articulate in a post.

I would hate to be ignorant on facts, so if you can prove me wrong, throw it at the fridge and see what sticks. I am always willing accept new information to replace the old, without biases.
This post is so problematic and why progress is so slow. You're making arguments based on your feelings that lack backing? You hate to be ignorant on a topic, but want someone to prove you wrong on it? You have access to the same information as most of us, a willingness to thoughtful approaches in research and understanding are lacking on your part.
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      07-03-2019, 11:25 PM   #2140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineX View Post
BMW has a residual for i3 that outperforms the market? That sounds like a cost to the manufacturer in order to move inventory. Another example of doctored demand imo. Don't get me wrong, i am a big fan of i3, seriously consider owning one someday.
58% isnít really crazy. Discounts and incentives right now are pretty darn good tho

7500 lease credit
1500 loyalty credit
2500 state rebate (pending CA funding for 2019-20...)
800 rebate from PG&E

Just got almost 12% off MSRP too before incentives add in the fuel savings, and this little thing is under $100/mo before insurance. Pretty sure it will smoke my M roady to 40-50 as well, its got some balls
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      07-03-2019, 11:56 PM   #2141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScytheM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeni View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
They use a lithium ion battery that can last for up to 6 years, mileage undetermined. Pretty robust cell units.

It's still a battery and has to the potential to wear out, however reasonable, with a cost to replace around 12 - $15,000, so that in itself put it in the negative column, IMO.

I'm sure the quality and longevity of the battery would improve as the technology process but for now, it's still just a niche product.
The Prius that have been out there for 12 years are still mostly running on the orignal batteries, and that's 12 yo tech in a field thats still so fresh the paint has not yet dried. Thus far, at the exception of the Leaf fiasco, there has been no indication of a looming battery apocalypse.
Yes, because now less than 1% of the driving population owns an EV; people are now beginning to open up to the technology, so I wasn't exactly expecting the Armageddon. But what happens when EV becomes a fact of life.

Look, maybe my worries about the battery are a little unfounded but the fact is, it still operates solely with a finite battery and that comes with its own set of cons of which I can't articulate in a post.

I would hate to be ignorant on facts, so if you can prove me wrong, throw it at the fridge and see what sticks. I am always willing accept new information to replace the old, without biases.
This post is so problematic and why progress is so slow. You're making arguments based on your feelings that lack backing? You hate to be ignorant on a topic, but want someone to prove you wrong on it? You have access to the same information as most of us, a willingness to thoughtful approaches in research and understanding are lacking on your part.

TL: DR


Why so snippy?

I stated what I learned, shared my concert about a major wearable part - the battery - and showed my homework. What's the problem?

Technology is always progressing and improving, maybe I was going off older information and there is now a battery that can last until the Armageddon, hence the reason I said 'prove me wrong.' It wasn't a dare..

Maybe someone else has data I was not privy to. That's usually how a public forum works; you bounce ideas off other like-minded folks, not attack them because you don't agree with their concerns.

I don't know why I pinched a nerve or even care but to be clear, I wasn't ragging on EVs. I'm embracing the technology with open arms, even if it means losing my beloved manual transmission.

So pull you panties up and let's move on..
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      07-10-2019, 10:07 AM   #2142
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We might not be in an agreement on Trump, but I'll be the first penis chaser here to say I'll rather take it up in the ass than to argue with you on this.
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      07-10-2019, 11:18 AM   #2143
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Are those rims plastic? Haha

Looks like some high quality materials. Not!
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      07-10-2019, 12:36 PM   #2144
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The OEM forged wheels on my E63 Wagon are approximately $2100 per corner for the wheel alone (new) and the OEM cap is $280. Seems like this guy got off on the cheap but should have purchased the wheel and tire insurance package which he most likely declined. It would have cost $50-100 and it pays for itself if you live in a pot hole infested region.
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      07-10-2019, 03:37 PM   #2145
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Pretty eye opening:

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We might not be in an agreement on Trump, but I'll be the first penis chaser here to say I'll rather take it up in the ass than to argue with you on this.
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      07-11-2019, 10:52 PM   #2146
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I've been going through the Youtube channel of the guy who authored the last video link I posted discussing what one faces if in repairs when your Tesla's warranty expires. The name of the Youtuber is Rich Rebuilds. He deserves a lot of respect for the content he has put out there, his fairly objective discussions about Tesla, and what he is doing now...namely opening his own repair shop specializing in repairing Teslas. His new shop called Electrified Garage is having their grand opening in about 2 weeks. He's hired two former Tesla employees: one used to work at one of the Tesla service centers and the other is a certified Tesla repair tech. He gained notoriety by rebuilding a flood damaged Model S himself. I've learned quite a bit about Teslas just going through his videos.

Here's one which provides some insight on what makes the Teslas function namely the MCU/ICE. What's interesting is these things are a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. The main flash memory by which the computer system uses to operate will eventually go bad due to the flash memory being worn out from the large volume of log files being written to it. When this happens, the entire car goes into limp mode and Tesla is going to charge you any where from $2500 to 5000 to replace the computer. There's a bunch of other insights on the software/electronics which I found highly informative:



Here's a video Rich did on the data a Tesla car collects on your driving and your surroundings:



In addition to all the various videos going over different repair projects, he also had a series on his personal experience trying to buy a used Model X off of Tesla's own website. It's amazing what this guy has accomplished with doing this stuff in his spare time, being married with 2 kids, and working a full time job.

The other thing I really like about Rich is his humor. You get it through out all of his videos. I was rolling with this rant he did about Tesla owners:



Something else about Rich that might gain favor with some of you is that he also owns a modded Z06.
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We might not be in an agreement on Trump, but I'll be the first penis chaser here to say I'll rather take it up in the ass than to argue with you on this.
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      07-12-2019, 09:24 AM   #2147
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Car's back.....

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We might not be in an agreement on Trump, but I'll be the first penis chaser here to say I'll rather take it up in the ass than to argue with you on this.
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      07-12-2019, 10:01 AM   #2148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
I've been going through the Youtube channel of the guy who authored the last video link I posted discussing what one faces if in repairs when your Tesla's warranty expires. The name of the Youtuber is Rich Rebuilds. He deserves a lot of respect for the content he has put out there, his fairly objective discussions about Tesla, and what he is doing now...namely opening his own repair shop specializing in repairing Teslas. His new shop called Electrified Garage is having their grand opening in about 2 weeks. He's hired two former Tesla employees: one used to work at one of the Tesla service centers and the other is a certified Tesla repair tech. He gained notoriety by rebuilding a flood damaged Model S himself. I've learned quite a bit about Teslas just going through his videos.

Here's one which provides some insight on what makes the Teslas function namely the MCU/ICE. What's interesting is these things are a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. The main flash memory by which the computer system uses to operate will eventually go bad due to the flash memory being worn out from the large volume of log files being written to it. When this happens, the entire car goes into limp mode and Tesla is going to charge you any where from $2500 to 5000 to replace the computer. There's a bunch of other insights on the software/electronics which I found highly informative:



Here's a video Rich did on the data a Tesla car collects on your driving and your surroundings:



In addition to all the various videos going over different repair projects, he also had a series on his personal experience trying to buy a used Model X off of Tesla's own website. It's amazing what this guy has accomplished with doing this stuff in his spare time, being married with 2 kids, and working a full time job.

The other thing I really like about Rich is his humor. You get it through out all of his videos. I was rolling with this rant he did about Tesla owners:



Something else about Rich that might gain favor with some of you is that he also owns a modded Z06.
Rich is da man!!
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      07-13-2019, 01:17 AM   #2149
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Ummmm...

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If you look into this matter further you will find out that the German government wants to do away with gasoline cars. They are working with car companies in Germany to offer incentives and tax breaks to people who buy all electric cars. But, the German government also wants to hit people with a fine for not buying all electric cars as well. They are shooting for 2025 as the "you better be driving an all electric car" (or you'll get fined) date. So it's not really BMW it's the German government.
Vote hour idiot government down.
This is not freedom, this is a dictatorial move.
Anyway, let the germans die if thats what they want. Beside the fact that many will not switch to electric, there will be mo reason for other markets to buy a german electric vehicle. They will all be the same shit.
I don't want anyone to die. I love Germany and the German people. I'm not wishing death on anyone. 😐
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      07-16-2019, 07:50 AM   #2150
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https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/15/tesl...l-3-goals.html
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      07-16-2019, 09:01 AM   #2151
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Tesla's mistake is to assemble the cars in USA and not in Mexico or China.
  • Employees in the tent say they have also had to work through harsh weather and unhealthy air quality.

They are in f-ing Freemont, CA. How harsh the weather is... Cry me a river.
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      07-16-2019, 04:12 PM   #2152
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Outstanding!
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      07-17-2019, 10:12 AM   #2153
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What a wonderful manufacturer with quality control better than their competitors. Truly a superior Marque. Best automaker working out of a tent in my opinion.





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      07-17-2019, 11:14 AM   #2154
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What a wonderful manufacturer with quality control better than their competitors. Truly a superior Marque. Best automaker working out of a tent in my opinion.





Rivals the best from Detroit, circa 1975
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      07-17-2019, 11:31 AM   #2155
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The cars are being made in tents. Of course quality is an issue.
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      07-17-2019, 12:31 PM   #2156
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A Supra, A Tesla, and Panamera walk into a bar:
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