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      06-13-2018, 01:08 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
I've run JRZ 2-ways and Moton 3-ways (the people at MCS were formerly with Moton). Either will solve your problem while being a much better shock.

Have you been able to install brake ducts yet?

I know you don't have time to wait around, but Essex Parts says they may have a kit in their Radi-CAL line in the next couple of months. I offered them the car I'm picking up next week to use for measuring - no response yet, but I'll be following up with them.
The ducts are going in along with the widebody so that won't be complete for a few weeks. A few racers cracked their J hook rotors after two days of racing - this seems to be a common theme. The folks the run even the street version of the Stoptechs never have any issues which is why I ultimately went with that route.
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      06-13-2018, 01:31 PM   #68
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A few racers cracked their J hook rotors after two days of racing - this seems to be a common theme.
I'll look into that - thanks.
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      07-08-2018, 11:48 AM   #69
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This build thread is so awesome, tons of great info here. Any update on the M235iR widebody install? Would love to see some pics!
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      07-09-2018, 08:03 AM   #70
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This build thread is so awesome, tons of great info here. Any update on the M235iR widebody install? Would love to see some pics!
I’ve been busy lately so I haven’t had time to update. But the answer is yes, the widebody install is currently happening! In addition to the widebody, we are upgrading the bushings, coilovers, adding sway bars, m235iR wing, custom steering wheel, custom splitter, custom race exhaust, and possibly a custom diffuser. It will be receiving a wrap with a tasteful livery. A month from now is when it’s scheduled to go in for the rollcage, carbon fiber roof, and a good stripping. We are trying to retain some of the oem aesthetics and luxury features but depending on what it weighs in at, the luxuries might have to go.

You can check out my Instagram (capt_and)

Here are some pictures of the widebody mock-up along with a picture of the car's last time on track as a "stock" m240i.
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      07-09-2018, 10:14 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by capt_and View Post
I’ve been busy lately so I haven’t had time to update. But the answer is yes, the widebody install is currently happening! In addition to the widebody, we are upgrading the bushings, coilovers, adding sway bars, m235iR wing, custom steering wheel, custom splitter, custom race exhaust, and possibly a custom diffuser. It will be receiving a wrap with a tasteful livery. A month from now is when it’s scheduled to go in for the rollcage, carbon fiber roof, and a good stripping. We are trying to retain some of the oem aesthetics and luxury features but depending on what it weighs in at, the luxuries might have to go.

You can check out my Instagram (capt_and) and the Texas Track Works instagram (texastrackworks) as we are uploading updated pictures more frequently.

Here are some pictures of the widebody mock-up along with a picture of the car's last time on track as a "stock" m240i.

Looking good! Just followed you and TTX on instagram, keep up the good work!


Your build is going down the same direction I plan to take my M235i in a couple years... I want to turn it into an M235i/M235iR with ~500-550whp, an M235i GTS if you will...

What is your weight goal? 3100 lbs? Or are you trying to achieve lower than that?

Which carbon roof are you using? RKP? can you give me a relative idea of what this costs if possible?

also can you take pictures of how you guys end up ducting the brakes? very curious how you guys do it, i hope it solves your overheating problems



last but not least i wanted to get your opinion/have you weigh in on any engine oil starvation issues... have you run into anything yet? curious as to who else ran into it and if anyone else has performed the sump upgrade. ive been following this other thread and am very curious: https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1474653

i am very much obsessed with the notion of looking for inspiration via the m235iR - it's like BMW did all the hard work for us.



anyways cheers and keep us posted!
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      07-09-2018, 10:27 AM   #72
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I like that you actually make moves and get things done instead of just talking about it. Thanks for sharing your progress.

What was your lap time at ECR?
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      07-09-2018, 10:38 AM   #73
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I like that you actually make moves and get things done instead of just talking about it.
Most aren't aware of the cost involved in doing anything significant to a street car. It requires cubic dollars. Five-figure estimates sober most up pretty quick.

The only way to mitigate the cost is to do the work yourself, and few are capable in that regard.
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      07-09-2018, 12:08 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by edub92 View Post
Looking good! Just followed you and TTX on instagram, keep up the good work!


Your build is going down the same direction I plan to take my M235i in a couple years... I want to turn it into an M235i/M235iR with ~500-550whp, an M235i GTS if you will...

What is your weight goal? 3100 lbs? Or are you trying to achieve lower than that?

Which carbon roof are you using? RKP? can you give me a relative idea of what this costs if possible?

also can you take pictures of how you guys end up ducting the brakes? very curious how you guys do it, i hope it solves your overheating problems



last but not least i wanted to get your opinion/have you weigh in on any engine oil starvation issues... have you run into anything yet? curious as to who else ran into it and if anyone else has performed the sump upgrade. ive been following this other thread and am very curious: https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1474653

i am very much obsessed with the notion of looking for inspiration via the m235iR - it's like BMW did all the hard work for us.



anyways cheers and keep us posted!
There isn't very much weight to be lost unfortunately. I have gone through every part on the car and only found maybe a couple of hundred pounds to be lost. And then most will be added back on with the roll cage. But... Maybe it will be different than I think and we will get the car to shed a ton of weight!

Carbon roof will in fact be RKP. The labor hours should be around 12 hrs including glass removal. The hours are confirmed by BMW for the carbon roof for the m2 competition.

As for oil/fuel starvation, the m240i (B58 engine) has not experience any of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cxp213 View Post
I like that you actually make moves and get things done instead of just talking about it. Thanks for sharing your progress.

What was your lap time at ECR?
2:04 on older RS4s. As a matter of fact, they are the same tires as the last time I was there a couple months ago. I am not too bummed out since it was my second time there and the first two sessions were spent on trying to remember the nuances of the track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
Most aren't aware of the cost involved in doing anything significant to a street car. It requires cubic dollars. Five-figure estimates sober most up pretty quick.

The only way to mitigate the cost is to do the work yourself, and few are capable in that regard.
The cost is significant... Even ignoring labor, parts alone are eating up my money. The MCS suspension alone is $7.5k... Good news for literally everybody else is that since I am playing guinea pig, this is all costing me more. TTW is documenting everything that is being done to this car to make it as repeatable and streamlined as possible. Anyone following in my footsteps will see a fair amount of reduction in cost.

But, so far, being first at bat is very expensive. The concept of keeping the car below the cost of the M2 has gone out the window. However, when all is complete, it will be a significantly faster car than an off the shelf M2.

Race cars are expensive, building race cars are even more expensive, running the race car is the most expensive (long term). Which is why I am buying a beater Miata for practice.
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      07-09-2018, 12:46 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by capt_and View Post
Race cars are expensive, building race cars are even more expensive, running the race car is the most expensive (long term). Which is why I am buying a beater Miata for practice.
^ This. If you're serious about developing a car, it is so easy to race through the first $100K - and that's separate from whatever the car cost you. For the running part, I budgeted $2K/track day - half for tires, half for everything else, including between-event maintenance.

-----------------

I expect that the weight, speed, and aero of your car will demand quite a bit from your tires. I recommend maintaining a healthy tire budget. One thing I learned was that the fresher the rubber, the more consistent both the car and I were. I ran with heavy aero and changed tires out after 4 HCs because the traction was no longer sufficient in heavy braking zones. That was on the BFG R1.

-----------------

Smart move re: the Miata. That car is the answer to so many track day questions that it isn't even funny. Want to have fun? Get a Miata. Want cheap? Get a Miata. Want reliable? Get a Miata. Want light weight? Get a Miata. Etc., etc.

Miatas may not go fast, but they're a ton of fun to drive, especially when leaving faster cars behind in the slower, twisty sections!
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      07-09-2018, 12:58 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capt_and View Post
There isn't very much weight to be lost unfortunately.
.
.
2:04 on older RS4s. As a matter of fact, they are the same tires as the last time I was there a couple months ago. I am not too bummed out since it was my second time there and the first two sessions were spent on trying to remember the nuances of the track.
.
.
The cost is significant... Even ignoring labor, parts alone are eating up my money. The MCS suspension alone is $7.5k...
.
.
Which is why I am buying a beater Miata for practice.
What's your vehicle weight without you in it (at your last outing)?

2:04 is pretty good, but it sounds like there's still at least a couple seconds left to be trimmed from what you're saying and given the mods on the car. Videos of the 2:04 lap?

Wow, I knew you'd be spending some decent coin, but not to that extent. Do you mind sharing the breakdown of the cost, or even the total cost of all you're doing to your 240i? Wish my pockets were half as deep, or maybe I was just spoiled to have been running my tired old 350Z as my track car for so damn long. Then again, my spec is to specific class rules so it's not an "unlimited spec" like you're doing to yours.

Lol, wasn't this car supposed to be a practice car so you don't risk track damage to your P-car?
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      07-09-2018, 01:54 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
^ This. If you're serious about developing a car, it is so easy to race through the first $100K - and that's separate from whatever the car cost you. For the running part, I budgeted $2K/track day - half for tires, half for everything else, including between-event maintenance.

-----------------

I expect that the weight, speed, and aero of your car will demand quite a bit from your tires. I recommend maintaining a healthy tire budget. One thing I learned was that the fresher the rubber, the more consistent both the car and I were. I ran with heavy aero and changed tires out after 4 HCs because the traction was no longer sufficient in heavy braking zones. That was on the BFG R1.

-----------------

Smart move re: the Miata. That car is the answer to so many track day questions that it isn't even funny. Want to have fun? Get a Miata. Want cheap? Get a Miata. Want reliable? Get a Miata. Want light weight? Get a Miata. Etc., etc.

Miatas may not go fast, but they're a ton of fun to drive, especially when leaving faster cars behind in the slower, twisty sections!
I try and get the most out of my tires and probably run them much longer than most people do. I've put 30+ cycles on RE71s (rotated/flipped them about 4 times). My running costs have actually gone down since my coaching session. I do shorter sessions and the braking techniques have saved a lot of brakes and tires.

My driving coach told me: Everybody should learn to drive a miata. No abs should be interesting.... I personally thing a well sorted E36 is the happy medium but the m240i build has eaten away at any shot I have of buying an E36.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cxp213 View Post
What's your vehicle weight without you in it (at your last outing)?

2:04 is pretty good, but it sounds like there's still at least a couple seconds left to be trimmed from what you're saying and given the mods on the car. Videos of the 2:04 lap?

Wow, I knew you'd be spending some decent coin, but not to that extent. Do you mind sharing the breakdown of the cost, or even the total cost of all you're doing to your 240i? Wish my pockets were half as deep, or maybe I was just spoiled to have been running my tired old 350Z as my track car for so damn long. Then again, my spec is to specific class rules so it's not an "unlimited spec" like you're doing to yours.

Lol, wasn't this car supposed to be a practice car so you don't risk track damage to your P-car?
3620lbs without me, 3800lbs with me in it. There is definitely a couple of seconds left. The RS4s I ran had about 20 heat cycles on them - I think fresh tires would've been worth a second - Fresh RE71s would have been worth 2 seconds. Then of course there's probably another 2 seconds by switching to a more competent and confident driver...

Another item of note is that I had the front iR sway bar installed and still had the oem sway bars in the rear. The car was an understeering machine. One critique I have with the car is that it does not do midcorners very well. Turn in is excellent, exit is great, but it tends to plow midcorner.

By no means does anyone have to go all the way as I have. As a matter of fact, TTW and I have been keeping notes on what an ideal setup is for different levels of spend (since I've gone through a serious number of variations). The idea is, someone can walk up and say "I have a 2 series and have $X,XXX of a budget to work with" and there would be a solution for that individual's car based on a set of priorities.

Actually, this isn't really an unlimited build. If you take a step back, almost everything is related to fitting more tire and improving suspension. The brakes only came about because I set the OEM calipers on fire too many times and warped the pistons. The engine and transmission are remaining untouched. When everything is complete, I think 60% of the cost will go to wheels/tires/suspension, 25% safety, 5% ergonomics, 5% brakes, 2% aero, 1% exhaust, 2% making it look super sweet.

I sold the 911 since all of my time and money was going towards the build. The poor thing just sat there and was rarely driven so I couldn't justify keeping her. And of course, this build got out of hand...
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      07-09-2018, 01:58 PM   #78
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There isn't very much weight to be lost unfortunately. I have gone through every part on the car and only found maybe a couple of hundred pounds to be lost. And then most will be added back on with the roll cage. But... Maybe it will be different than I think and we will get the car to shed a ton of weight!

Carbon roof will in fact be RKP. The labor hours should be around 12 hrs including glass removal. The hours are confirmed by BMW for the carbon roof for the m2 competition.

As for oil/fuel starvation, the m240i (B58 engine) has not experience any of that.
...
When it comes to weight reduction how extreme are you going? Are you going to keep AC/heaters/speakers? I assume the stock m235i dash may be a bit heavier than the dash that is fitted in the m235ir version...

I'm curious as to how they get the m235iR down to 3100 lbs. I was thinking 400 lbs would be a realistic target if you include the carbon roof+hood, fully stripping interior, aftermarket seat/wheel, lighter weight battery (stock battery weighs a ton i imagine), no ac heater, catless and straight pipe exhaust....

though i agree the cage is going to add a good chunk of weight back in the car.
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      07-09-2018, 02:15 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edub92 View Post
When it comes to weight reduction how extreme are you going? Are you going to keep AC/heaters/speakers? I assume the stock m235i dash may be a bit heavier than the dash that is fitted in the m235ir version...

I'm curious as to how they get the m235iR down to 3100 lbs. I was thinking 400 lbs would be a realistic target if you include the carbon roof+hood, fully stripping interior, aftermarket seat/wheel, lighter weight battery (stock battery weighs a ton i imagine), no ac heater, catless and straight pipe exhaust....

though i agree the cage is going to add a good chunk of weight back in the car.
I am going to see how far I want to take it. Part of me wants to keep the car streetable so I don't have to deal with hauling a trailer. If that's the case, we would want to keep the AC/heater/speakers. All of those components together weigh no more than 50lbs. What's interesting is that the AC is an option on the iR. What I think I will do is keep that for now and whenever I get frustrated enough and need the .5 sec, I will remove it all. This shouldn't affect anything because the wiring harnesses are the same!

The iR has no spray on insulation or any of the small seemingly innocent parts. From what I recall, the welded on rails that the seats sit on are worth 14lbs and the carpeting is worth 20lbs. Stuff like that adds up! The dash in the iR is the same one that'ts in the production models.

Caging the car will add about 180lbs so that is a lot to overcome.
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      07-09-2018, 05:29 PM   #80
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Sweet Build and nicely done!! Thank you for sharing!
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      08-06-2018, 11:04 AM   #81
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Here's a little sneak peek of the widebody installed.
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      08-09-2018, 08:17 AM   #82
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It is going in for a cage and carbon fiber roof today! Should take up to 8 to 10 weeks to get it back. After that, we will install the MCS coilovers, SPL control arms, monoball and other solid bushings.

In terms of track performance, I did the first session on Saturday using the same beat up RS4s on the 9.5" wheels and was able to match my best time (haven't driven the car in awhile and it took some getting used to) that I set on the RE-71Rs. So I would say, all things being equal, the rear sway bar, custom engine mounts/differential bushings did help. The car went from an understeering cow to a tail happy monster. In terms of characteristics of the car, it is the polar opposite.

After the first session, we switched over to Hoosier A7s on 10.5" wheels. Lets just say I am not at all used to the grip level! There is a lot more grip there to exploit. We switched to a narrower R7 the next day and there was still a ton of grip. This is the first time I've ever been on a sticky tire so it was definitely a whole different experience. Lap times effectively dropped by 2 seconds BUT the theoretical times dropped by over 4 seconds. The theoretical and actual times for the street tires were within 0.3 seconds. Pretty obvious that I need to learn how to actually use the Hoosiers!

RS4: 1:24.01
Hoosier R7s: 1:22.04
Hoosier theoreticals: 1:19.7

Before: The car exhibited a lot of understeer throughout the whole corner, it was hard to move the rear unless all of the power was applied in the corners, and the car struggled to rotate.

After engine mounts, diff bushings, and rear sway: I almost lost it on the outlap because the tail of the car came out so quickly. If I had to choose between the two, I would take the tail happy version even though it is harder to control for me at this time. Why? There is a bit of a helpless feeling when the car is pushing and the only thing you can do is slow down. In contrast to oversteer where a little counter steer can bring everything back in line. I would venture to say that we could keep this bias as is because once the wing goes on, it should stabilize and balance everything out.

Also, fun note, there is gear whine from the diff bushings. So cool....
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      08-10-2018, 06:54 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capt_and View Post
It is going in for a cage and carbon fiber roof today! Should take up to 8 to 10 weeks to get it back. After that, we will install the MCS coilovers, SPL control arms, monoball and other solid bushings.

In terms of track performance, I did the first session on Saturday using the same beat up RS4s on the 9.5" wheels and was able to match my best time (haven't driven the car in awhile and it took some getting used to) that I set on the RE-71Rs. So I would say, all things being equal, the rear sway bar, custom engine mounts/differential bushings did help. The car went from an understeering cow to a tail happy monster. In terms of characteristics of the car, it is the polar opposite.

After the first session, we switched over to Hoosier A7s on 10.5" wheels. Lets just say I am not at all used to the grip level! There is a lot more grip there to exploit. We switched to a narrower R7 the next day and there was still a ton of grip. This is the first time I've ever been on a sticky tire so it was definitely a whole different experience. Lap times effectively dropped by 2 seconds BUT the theoretical times dropped by over 4 seconds. The theoretical and actual times for the street tires were within 0.3 seconds. Pretty obvious that I need to learn how to actually use the Hoosiers!

RS4: 1:24.01
Hoosier R7s: 1:22.04
Hoosier theoreticals: 1:19.7

Before: The car exhibited a lot of understeer throughout the whole corner, it was hard to move the rear unless all of the power was applied in the corners, and the car struggled to rotate.

After engine mounts, diff bushings, and rear sway: I almost lost it on the outlap because the tail of the car came out so quickly. If I had to choose between the two, I would take the tail happy version even though it is harder to control for me at this time. Why? There is a bit of a helpless feeling when the car is pushing and the only thing you can do is slow down. In contrast to oversteer where a little counter steer can bring everything back in line. I would venture to say that we could keep this bias as is because once the wing goes on, it should stabilize and balance everything out.

Also, fun note, there is gear whine from the diff bushings. So cool.... Major thank you to Texas Track Works for doing the tire test with me!
A7s / R7s...now we're talking!

Seriously, the R7s likely offer the minimum grip level required to get the most out of what you're building. An A7-level tire offers even more grip, but at the expense of a much shorter life at that grip level. If you ever decide to time trial, or even sprint race if the race is short enough, the A7 can work quite well.

"I almost lost it on the outlap because..."

Don't discount the fact that the tires were not yet up to temperature. That makes a much bigger difference with the stickier compounds, and if you're injudicious on the out lap with either the throttle or the brake when the tires are still cold, they can bite you...bigly.

It sounds like your build is really coming together. Thanks for sharing in such detail what you're doing - it's much appreciated!
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      09-12-2018, 12:38 PM   #84
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Epic build full of useful information looking forward to more updates!
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      10-09-2018, 05:58 PM   #85
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Widebody look is my favorite!
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      01-11-2019, 08:32 AM   #86
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It's been awhile since I've reported back but it is all done! The build went way over time and budget but I am happy to report that the car is at least if not faster than a 991.1 GT3. I haven't put a lot of laps in, and the laps that I did were in mid-30s degree weather and damp, so there isn't a nice solid lap to post. Plus the laps were meant to shakedown the car and get the suspension dialed in. Although the car isn't 100% dialed in, it is still wicked fast. The theoretical times (theoreticals are based on actual best sector times, for those that don't know) went down by just over 3 seconds on a 1.7 mile track. Best of all, I did it on street tires vs scrub A7s.

Unfortunately, due to a shift in my objectives, I will be selling the car. Since it did go over budget by so much, I need to free up some cash to put together a complete race season in the Spec Miata. This is why I haven't spent much time in the car - I don't want to put too many hrs on the components for the next owner.
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Last edited by capt_and; 01-11-2019 at 09:30 AM..
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      01-11-2019, 08:53 AM   #87
cxp213
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Damn, so you don't get to enjoy your new build? I was hoping to see how a modded F22 would do against the local competition. Did you go this past weekend? What was your lap time?

BTW, are you selling the car as-is or parting out? If the latter, I might be interested in some parts.
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      01-11-2019, 09:30 AM   #88
capt_and
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cxp213 View Post
Damn, so you don't get to enjoy your new build? I was hoping to see how a modded F22 would do against the local competition. Did you go this past weekend? What was your lap time?

BTW, are you selling the car as-is or parting out? If the latter, I might be interested in some parts.
I went a couple of weekends ago. I did 1:20s on the RE-71s. Theoretical was 1:18.8. I didn't get an opportunity to try and put together a complete lap before the tires were toast. I honestly think with Hoosiers, this is a 1:16s car.

Not interested in parting the car out but I do have goodies from the car before the build that I am selling. Items you might be interested in are the Ohlins, roll/harness bar, and the 18x9.5 Arc-8 wheels.
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