[BEAR-AvHistory]

Problem you all are having as this thing gets crazy with mods about the quickest N54 I know of was Shivs big single turbo with slicks, hardened, axles, etc that only managed a 10.822. Not counting the cost of car it would cost over $15K try to duplicate it.

Shivs car is listed as #1 on the 335/135 Drag Times list with a claimed 643whp.

On the Camaro list a 10.822 would make it #137.

No one else listed is out of the 11's including Terry's cars.

The BMW's do mod very well but they are a lot of US V-8 that mod a lot better & also have the running gear to sustain repeated hard launches. BMW when equipped with high grip tires to support a lot of power off the line start to break half-shafts, differential cases & drive shafts. One of the reasons you generally only see drag radials on them & not slicks.

[BD_F22]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Problem you all are having as this thing gets crazy with mods about the quickest N54 I know of was Shivs big single turbo with slicks, hardened, axles, etc that only managed a 10.822. Not counting the cost of car it would cost over $15K try to duplicate it.

Shivs car is listed as #1 on the 335/135 Drag Times list with a claimed 643whp.

On the Camaro list a 10.822 would make it #137.

No one else listed is out of the 11's including Terry's cars.

The n54 has surpassed Shiv's car by a long shot, we are seeing n54's hitting 800+whp now with single turbo's.. Also just recently RB turbo's pumped out 607whp with upgraded intake piping and Rob is finishing up his stage 3 turbos soon as well. RB Turbo's are around $3,500 and the intake piping can be had from Vargas for $500 so again I'll take my chances with a turbo BMW. Especially since you can get an n54 335 with low mileage for anywhere between $17,000 - $23,000.

[Anderw]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Problem you all are having as this thing gets crazy with mods about the quickest N54 I know of was Shivs big single turbo with slicks, hardened, axles, etc that only managed a 10.822. Not counting the cost of car it would cost over $15K try to duplicate it.

Shivs car is listed as #1 on the 335/135 Drag Times list with a claimed 643whp.

On the Camaro list a 10.822 would make it #137.

No one else listed is out of the 11's including Terry's cars.

The BMW's do mod very well but they are a lot of US V-8 that mod a lot better & also have the running gear to sustain repeated hard launches. BMW when equipped with high grip tires to support a lot of power off the line start to break half-shafts, differential cases & drive shafts. One of the reasons you generally only see drag radials on them & not slicks.

Thats if you are trying to drag quarter mile. which most people do their racing on the street not the track and from a roll not supporting just saying.Also most people don't even use 0-60 times to compare higher HP cars but rather the 60-130 times since it is a better indicator of speed

I do agree but the bmws limitations of the 60 foot and quarter mile time won't be as good as some of the other american cars that can take a 345 section or more tire compared to a 275 so doesn't really reflect how fast the car is, from a 60 roll it becomes pretty clear how fast n54 cars really are and the quarter mile time is irrelevant. The mods I listed aren't really that crazy its basically just bolt ons that FBO n54/n55 have and the stage 2 hybrid turbo which is just a stock turbo taken apart and upgraded.


idk why this is even a part to the discussion as it was not which car is most capable of being the fastest quarter mile car. It was said if you bought a 40k 1le and added only a 6k supercharger would get you 600hp which I didn't look if is true if it would only be $6k and make 600hp , how much it would cost to have 600hp bmw not whp but crank and it is pretty much a
FBO n55 on e85 with an upgraded stock turbo , which can be done for the same money roughly as said camaro.

[Anderw]

6466 e90 pulling on liter bikes and there is videos of him racing various other high HP cars to show its not a fluke
Im sure there are plenty of high hp camaros , but like I said before FBO 335s are everywhere and upgraded turbo ones are starting to become more common too

[wjones14]

Are the BMW mod supporters trying to say that a BMW 3.0 L engine has more potential than a 6.2 L LS3 Chevy or 5.0 L Ford engine? That's what it sounds like you're trying to say. And am I also hearing that there are a lot more examples of 600+ hp BMW on the streets than there are Camaros or Mustangs?

If that's the case, I think you're not even close to the truth, on either point. You're probably forgetting that both Chevy and Ford make factory stock Camaros and Mustangs with superchargers.

2014 Mustang GT500 662 horsepower
2014 Camaro ZL1 580 horsepower

These cars are ubiquitous. I see them all the time, and so does everyone else who lives in the U.S. 600 hp BMW? Not saying they don't exist, but I've never seen a single one.

But... all of this is so far away from the OP's original question, which was:

What would happen if he took on his co-worker's 1LE with the M235i (w/stage 1 piggyback) that he has right now?

[BD_F22]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Are the BMW mod supporters trying to say that a BMW 3.0 L engine has more potential than a 6.2 L LS3 Chevy or 5.0 L Ford engine? That's what it sounds like you're trying to say. And am I also hearing that there are a lot more examples of 600+ hp BMW on the streets than there are Camaros or Mustangs?

If that's the case, I think you're not even close to the truth, on either point. You're probably forgetting that both Chevy and Ford make factory stock Camaros and Mustangs with superchargers.

2014 Mustang GT500 662 horsepower
2014 Camaro ZL1 580 horsepower

These cars are ubiquitous. I see them all the time, and so does everyone else who lives in the U.S. 600 hp BMW? Not saying they don't exist, but I've never seen a single one.

But... all of this is so far away from the OP's original question, which was:

What would happen if he took on his co-worker's 1LE with the M235i (w/stage 1 piggyback) that he has right now?

I think you should just sell your BMW and go get an American Muscle car, you seem to know alot more about them than you do BMW so I think its a perfect fit for you. You are on a BMW forum trying to convince us how superior american muscle cars are.. Are some of them fast absolutely, but if you wanna start talking about that once again I would choose an e46 m3 or e92 m3 and go forced induction on those before I chose an american muscle car. Like I said you don't have experience in the BMW world like some of us.. Five of my closest friends in my area all over 550+whp 135's or 335's and two of them being 600+whp. I am not going to try to prove anything else after this post because its obviously pointless, you have your mind made up on american muscle. Judging from your previous threads you should have stuck to your original plan and bought the Mustang GT, you would probably have been happier.

[NYHoustonman]

Originally Posted by BD_F22

I think you should just sell your BMW and go get an American Muscle car, you seem to know alot more about them than you do BMW so I think its a perfect fit for you. You are on a BMW forum trying to convince us how superior american muscle cars are.. Are some of them fast absolutely, but if you wanna start talking about that once again I would choose an e46 m3 or e92 m3 and go forced induction on those before I chose an american muscle car. Like I said you don't have experience in the BMW world like some of us.. Five of my closest friends in my area all over 550+whp 135's or 335's and two of them being 600+whp. I am not going to try to prove anything else after this post because its obviously pointless, you have your mind made up on american muscle. Judging from your previous threads you should have stuck to your original plan and bought the Mustang GT, you would probably have been happier.

I can't believe BMW ownership has devolved to drag racing and quarter mile times. What happened to handling, balance?

The E92/E82 chassis can barely handle the power the N54/N55 puts out in stock form. There simply isn't the room without major modification (M3 components, widebody for larger tires, LSD) to handle that much power.

The Camaro SS 1LE is set up better from the factory, and is still cheaper, than any of the cars being discussed in this thread. End of discussion.

[pikcachu]

Ya I think people don't understand that the question is more about:

Average Joe has a stock M235, another average Joe has a 1LE... then who is more likely to end ahead on a quick pull

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by NYHoustonman

I can't believe BMW ownership has devolved to drag racing and quarter mile times. What happened to handling, balance?

The E92/E82 chassis can barely handle the power the N54/N55 puts out in stock form. There simply isn't the room without major modification (M3 components, widebody for larger tires, LSD) to handle that much power.

The Camaro SS 1LE is set up better from the factory, and is still cheaper, than any of the cars being discussed in this thread. End of discussion.

Don't confuse people with the facts.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by NYHoustonman

I can't believe BMW ownership has devolved to drag racing and quarter mile times. What happened to handling, balance?

The E92/E82 chassis can barely handle the power the N54/N55 puts out in stock form. There simply isn't the room without major modification (M3 components, widebody for larger tires, LSD) to handle that much power.

The Camaro SS 1LE is set up better from the factory, and is still cheaper, than any of the cars being discussed in this thread. End of discussion.

Well said. weirdest thread i have seen in a long time.

[BD_F22]

Look I understand on paper and stock vs stock the Camaro has the advantage but don't discredit what I have been trying to say about modding our cars. Just because almost everyone in this thread has no desire to go all out on mods don't dismiss those of us who do. I plan on modding this car to the point of testing its limits and determining what it can and can't do for myself just as I did with my 335. You guys are just ruining the fun for those of who actually want to test the limits of this platform. Have fun with your stock cars and enjoy them because at the end of the day we are all still winning.

[NYHoustonman]

Originally Posted by BD_F22

Look I understand on paper and stock vs stock the Camaro has the advantage but don't discredit what I have been trying to say about modding our cars. Just because almost everyone in this thread has no desire to go all out on mods don't dismiss those of us who do. I plan on modding this car to the point of testing its limits and determining what it can and can't do for myself just as I did with my 335. You guys are just ruining the fun for those of who actually want to test the limits of this platform. Have fun with your stock cars and enjoy them because at the end of the day we are all still winning.

On the contrary, I drive a modified 135i and I love the platform. I totally understand the desire to modify, especially on cars like ours that are often tuned for comfort from the factory.

I also have a lot of pride in the cars American manufacturers are producing right now. In a lot of ways, they're stepping into a void left by the increasingly practical/friendly/safe/conservative cars in the same price range coming out of Europe. Stock-for-stock or mod-for-mod, I'm not sure I'd put any of our cars up against something like an SS 1LE.

[BD_F22]

Originally Posted by NYHoustonman

On the contrary, I drive a modified 135i and I love the platform. I totally understand the desire to modify, especially on cars like ours that are often tuned for comfort from the factory.

I also have a lot of pride in the cars American manufacturers are producing right now. In a lot of ways, they're stepping into a void left by the increasingly practical/friendly/safe/conservative cars in the same price range coming out of Europe. Stock-for-stock or mod-for-mod, I'm not sure I'd put any of our cars up against something like an SS 1LE.

Well then I guess when I am stage 2 in the summer on my 235, ill have to find one to race or let one of my buddies who are stage 2 in their 135 and 335 take a shot at one.. If I still had my 335 I would have done it with that as well. I'd rather let the cars do the talking than just speculate based off numbers on paper. It's like trying to predict the Yankees winning a world series based on what their team looks like on paper too.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by NYHoustonman

On the contrary, I drive a modified 135i and I love the platform. I totally understand the desire to modify, especially on cars like ours that are often tuned for comfort from the factory.

I also have a lot of pride in the cars American manufacturers are producing right now. In a lot of ways, they're stepping into a void left by the increasingly practical/friendly/safe/conservative cars in the same price range coming out of Europe. Stock-for-stock or mod-for-mod, I'm not sure I'd put any of our cars up against something like an SS 1LE.

Agree. My 335is was a beta car for the old JB4, then custom 335IS Map 6, then the next improved board with Map 6, then clipped diods for early ISO testing, then the expanded memory/CPU-ISO board, then 335is COBB back end flash 50/50% - 93/100 octane, Map 7 100%/100 octane. 135IS currently only has a JB4/ISO since the Cobra is now the go fast car.

[Anderw]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Are the BMW mod supporters trying to say that a BMW 3.0 L engine has more potential than a 6.2 L LS3 Chevy or 5.0 L Ford engine? That's what it sounds like you're trying to say. And am I also hearing that there are a lot more examples of 600+ hp BMW on the streets than there are Camaros or Mustangs?

If that's the case, I think you're not even close to the truth, on either point. You're probably forgetting that both Chevy and Ford make factory stock Camaros and Mustangs with superchargers.

2014 Mustang GT500 662 horsepower
2014 Camaro ZL1 580 horsepower

These cars are ubiquitous. I see them all the time, and so does everyone else who lives in the U.S. 600 hp BMW? Not saying they don't exist, but I've never seen a single one.

But... all of this is so far away from the OP's original question, which was:

What would happen if he took on his co-worker's 1LE with the M235i (w/stage 1 piggyback) that he has right now?

It only got away from the OPs original post because since you asked how much would it cost to get 600hp out of a bmw, and I showed it was way easier and cheaper then you were leading on.
I also I never said that bmws have more potential , but if people like me or BD_F22 wanted to have a FBO modified car would rather drive a turbo Inline 6 bmw over the american option thats our preference if all I wanted was to be the fastest guy around I wouldn't have gotten a m235i probably more like a c6 z06.
I Never put down american cars or acted like they weren't fast, And in my experience there are way more decently modified 335s 135s in my area, maybe I know all of them but between living in new jersey and south florida when you bump into a 335 that has an enthusiast as an owner more then likely they have a jb4 and supporting mods, I know a few dozen but maybe its where I live, most are seriously fast.

Back to the OP question

A stock m235i puts down the same 0-60 and same quarter mile time as a 1le
or very similar everyone can agree on that, Now add in he has a jb stage 1 (I'm assuming thats the tune) which in my experience is noticeable and improves everything with that the car closes the power gap.

426 420
326 330lbft (factory underrated)

tuned probably makes 360hp 370lbft roughly
also the weight advantage , pair that with the faster consistent shifting of a 8at
and it is close to call it without an actual race

A 6mt car can win or lose on driver alone

I have no idea how everyone jumped in saying don't do it you'll get smoked, its not like he has a 2006 325i making 175whp the performance numbers are close, In my opinion who cares its not a D*** measuring contest. I only jumped in to add my 2 cents which is what a forum is about

[NYHoustonman]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Agree. My 335is was a beta car for the old JB4, then custom 335IS Map 6, then the next improved board with Map 6, then clipped diods for early ISO testing, then the expanded memory/CPU-ISO board, then 335is COBB back end flash 50/50% - 93/100 octane, Map 7 100%/100 octane. 135IS currently only has a JB4/ISO since the Cobra is now the go fast car.

And I am highly jealous of your garage. Which do you find yourself wanting to drive more, the 435 or the 135? I'll leave the Cobra out of it because, well... I know the answer to that one .

[BEAR-AvHistory]

The 435 gets more use. 135 is a convertible & more of a nice weather car. Will keep it till the M2 converts are released depending on what they turn out to be equipped with.

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Wow....I didn't mean to start all this with my question

[e46m3lol]

Originally Posted by kwsw

A stock m235i puts down the same 0-60 and same quarter mile time as a 1le
or very similar everyone can agree on that, Now add in he has a jb stage 1 (I'm assuming thats the tune) which in my experience is noticeable and improves everything with that the car closes the power gap.

426 420
326 330lbft (factory underrated)

tuned probably makes 360hp 370lbft roughly
also the weight advantage , pair that with the faster consistent shifting of a 8at
and it is close to call it without an actual race

I'm very curious to see how your theory would work out in real life. I'll contact some of my Chevy friends today and see if they can arrange for me to race a 1LE tomorrow night at the local drag strip. It's only a 1/8 mile which doesn't allow the v8 to fully stretch its legs but that'll give us an idea of how my FBO 228i on map 7 with race fuel (same hp levels as a 235i with jb4 map 1) will do against the Camaro.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

If it works out it might be interesting to swap cars for one run.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by ehagerty

Wow....I didn't mean to start all this with my question

Real life:

"Hey man, we should race our cars sometime."
"Yeah, I'll think about it and get back to you!"



Posting the same scenario on a forum:

"YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW."
"MODS BRO. JUST TUNE IT."
"NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT."
"Given that car X weighs Y amount and has a Z PtW ratio, and if you do this this this and this, you should..."
"LAP TIMES. PINK SLIPS. I HATE EVERYTHING."

[uberspeed]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

Real life:

"Hey man, we should race our cars sometime."
"Yeah, I'll think about it and get back to you!"



Posting the same scenario on a forum:

"YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW."
"MODS BRO. JUST TUNE IT."
"NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT."
"Given that car X weighs Y amount and has a Z PtW ratio, and if you do this this this and this, you should..."
"LAP TIMES. PINK SLIPS. I HATE EVERYTHING."

Oh so true
I've since nearly given up on modifying my cars for hp and only done audio mods. Way less vitriol, but also way less fun.