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      07-30-2018, 11:03 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Kiloptero View Post
Hi all! A question.. today arrive my f22 m240 that's come with the "hifi" system
I can't see any tweeter and not even feel any woofer .. the vin says hifi.. but there is no tweeter in the corners near the window..
The tweeters comes with the front door speakers? Thanks a lot! I don't want to open and be sure that my dealers send me the correct kit! Thanks a lot!
I believe that HK has tweeters in the corners near the window but not hifi. You should still have woofers under your front seats.
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      07-31-2018, 10:14 AM   #156
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Kiloptero : The only 2 Series audio trim that comes with individual tweeters of any sort is the HK.

Both the HiFi system (standard in the U.S.) and the basic system (standard in the EU) make do with full-range 4" speakers in the doors/deck. The HiFi adds the underseat woofers and the 3.5-inch center channel on the top of the dashboard.
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      07-31-2018, 10:38 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Kiloptero : The only 2 Series audio trim that comes with individual tweeters of any sort is the HK.

Both the HiFi system (standard in the U.S.) and the basic system (standard in the EU) make do with full-range 4" speakers in the doors/deck. The HiFi adds the underseat woofers and the 3.5-inch center channel on the top of the dashboard.
And if you want to add door sail speakers you need to purchase the HK ones and chuck the tweeter - they do not sell just the cover plate.
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      08-01-2018, 08:47 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
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Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Kiloptero : The only 2 Series audio trim that comes with individual tweeters of any sort is the HK.

Both the HiFi system (standard in the U.S.) and the basic system (standard in the EU) make do with full-range 4" speakers in the doors/deck. The HiFi adds the underseat woofers and the 3.5-inch center channel on the top of the dashboard.
And if you want to add door sail speakers you need to purchase the HK ones and chuck the tweeter - they do not sell just the cover plate.
Thanks for the info!!
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      09-14-2018, 12:17 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
The following is for the Hi-Fi system:

Speakers
Easiest method is to replace the stock drivers with coaxials (two pair: one in the front doors, the other in the rear deck). Models that have proven to fit both locations -- particularly in the front doors, which have a depth restriction of approx. 54mm -- with this adapter on the Bay:
- Focal ISC100
- Morel Maximo 4c
- Hertz Energy 100.5
- JL Audio C2-400x
- JBL GX-402

Components will be more involved because there is no blank stock location for standalone tweeters in the front doors. The solution is to order the sail panels for the HK upgrade and retrofit 1" tweeters into them, while splicing into the wiring inside the door.

Subwoofers
The most important thing to know about the stock subwoofers is that they run at 2 ohms; the rest of the OEM speakers run at 4 ohms. This is done to extract more volume out of the stock amp at a given wattage.

The easiest and least expensive replacements would be the Earthquake Audio SWS-8, which are nearly dop-in replacements when ordered with a BMW-specific mounting bracket. The SWS-8 comes in two versions: 2 ohm (to use with the stock amp) and 4 ohm (to use with an aftermarket amp ONLY). The SWS-8 is a true sub; it's an improvement, but not a huge one because one of the OEM system's sonic weaknesses is mid-bass, which the SWS-8 doesn't do a good job alleviating. Better choices (and more $$$) are the mid-bass woofer by Jehnert (usually sold as an OEM-replacement set for the 3-series, but some resellers will sell these separately) and the Focal IBMW-S, which is a direct replacement (and with a street price of about $380 a piece).

Amplifiers
Easiest is to order a plug-and-play harness from TechnicPnP (about $80, available via email only at this stage) and use a JL Audio 600/6 in the stock location (in the rear left corner of the car, under the carpet in the trunk just ahead of the rear left light assembly). The most important thing regarding an amp is that it need to have differential balanced inputs; most car amplifiers don't have this feature, and the majority of the ones that do are very expensive. JL Audio's amps are the least expensive good-quality amps that have this feature and also have gain controls for each channel, which helps keep the ASD (which cannot be defeated except via coding or another special wiring harness that TechnicPnP sells) at tolerable levels from the rear speakers.

Other options:
- BimmerTech/Match amp (coding required to defeat ASD, but it's an easier install and has DSP via PC software included)
- Alpine PDX series amps (no gain control, IIRC)
- some Audison, Zapco and Arc Audio amps ($$$)

Hope this helps!

This is terrific post thank you for the summary Mike.

Three questions:

1. I like a warm non-fatiguing sound. I'm new to car audio but I love NAD/Mirage/PSB/Energy speakers and equipment for my home. Which of the 5 speakers below would you suggest?

I can get a great deal on the Focal ISC100s but I'd need to drive down to the USA to pick them up (I'm in Canada). Not sure they are worth the hassle. I can get the Hertz locally for not too much more.

- Focal ISC100
- Morel Maximo 4c
- Hertz Energy 100.5
- JL Audio C2-400x
- JBL GX-402

2. The SWS-8s are about $320 USD shipped to Canada. At that price I'm wondering if I can get the Jehnert but I've scoured the internet and can't find any vendors. Do you have any suggestions on where to get them?

3. I've read that even just upgrading the 4 speakers is a big upgrade over the Hifi system, is the sub upgrade worth it? I love rap, hip hop, house, rock, and pretty much everything but country.
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      09-17-2018, 02:41 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by pastuch View Post
This is terrific post thank you for the summary Mike.

Three questions:

1. I like a warm non-fatiguing sound. I'm new to car audio but I love NAD/Mirage/PSB/Energy speakers and equipment for my home. Which of the 5 speakers below would you suggest?

I can get a great deal on the Focal ISC100s but I'd need to drive down to the USA to pick them up (I'm in Canada). Not sure they are worth the hassle. I can get the Hertz locally for not too much more.

- Focal ISC100
- Morel Maximo 4c
- Hertz Energy 100.5
- JL Audio C2-400x
- JBL GX-402

2. The SWS-8s are about $320 USD shipped to Canada. At that price I'm wondering if I can get the Jehnert but I've scoured the internet and can't find any vendors. Do you have any suggestions on where to get them?

3. I've read that even just upgrading the 4 speakers is a big upgrade over the Hifi system, is the sub upgrade worth it? I love rap, hip hop, house, rock, and pretty much everything but country.
Well, it's an old post, but most of it applies.

Answers:

1). I would favor the Morels, followed by the Hertzs and JL Audios. The reason is all three use fabric dome tweeters, which tend to be 'softer' than metal tweeters. I ran Hertz Energy coaxials in my car; liked 'em a lot, and they definitely had a warm tinge to them though I wouldn't call them 'warm' overall.
A note on the Morels: If you can swing it, upgrade from the Maximos to the Integras. Much better quality in the midrange driver on those.

2). I don't, at least for Canada, and Jehnert's distributor list here doesn't list Canada. That said, one of the main U.S. sellers is Musicar Northwest in Portland, Oregon. Might be worth reaching out to it; I'm sure it's been asked about Canadian upgrades before.

3). If you're into hip hop, you will want to upgrade the underseat drivers for sure -- and in light of that, I would favor the SWS drivers over the Jehnerts. Do that first and see how it sounds. If you feel you need more bass, then start considering how to add a dedicated powered subwoofer to the system.

Hope this helps!
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      09-18-2018, 02:01 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Well, it's an old post, but most of it applies.

Answers:

1). I would favor the Morels, followed by the Hertzs and JL Audios. The reason is all three use fabric dome tweeters, which tend to be 'softer' than metal tweeters. I ran Hertz Energy coaxials in my car; liked 'em a lot, and they definitely had a warm tinge to them though I wouldn't call them 'warm' overall.
A note on the Morels: If you can swing it, upgrade from the Maximos to the Integras. Much better quality in the midrange driver on those.

2). I don't, at least for Canada, and Jehnert's distributor list here doesn't list Canada. That said, one of the main U.S. sellers is Musicar Northwest in Portland, Oregon. Might be worth reaching out to it; I'm sure it's been asked about Canadian upgrades before.

3). If you're into hip hop, you will want to upgrade the underseat drivers for sure -- and in light of that, I would favor the SWS drivers over the Jehnerts. Do that first and see how it sounds. If you feel you need more bass, then start considering how to add a dedicated powered subwoofer to the system.

Hope this helps!
I was thinking the same thing about the tweeters. I HATE horn tweeters and I was nervous the metal tweeters in the Focal ISC100 would be too bright/harsh.

I've narrowed it down to (CAD) $158 a pair for the Hertz 100.5 or $260 a pair for the Morel Tempo Ultra Integra. The depth of the Integras is 2"5/16, is that too much for the front doors? Do you really think the Integras are worth $100 more per pair? You mentioned that they would likely have better midrange, how do you know? I don't really know how to read frequency charts/graphs.

Last edited by pastuch; 09-18-2018 at 02:11 PM..
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      09-18-2018, 02:29 PM   #162
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I was thinking the same thing about the tweeters. I HATE horn tweeters and I was nervous the metal tweeters in the Focal ISC100 would be too bright/harsh.
And they are. Focal's inverted metal dome is one of those 'love it or hate it' things. One thing they definitely aren't is warm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pastuch View Post
I've narrowed it down to (CAD) $158 a pair for the Hertz 100.5 or $260 a pair for the Morel Tempo Ultra Integra. The depth of the Integras is 2"5/16, is that too much for the front doors? Do you really think the Integras are worth $100 more per pair? You mentioned that they would likely have better midrange, how do you know? I don't really know how to read frequency charts/graphs.
I've heard both Morels through an equivalent system. The Tempo Ultra has a significantly larger magnet and voice coil, and its woofer cone and frame are more rigid. The result is higher power handling, a wider and flatter response, and more stout mid-bass and low-mids that complement the tweeter well. Particularly if you're going to upgrade the underseat drivers with the SWSs, the Tempo Ultras will work better than the Maximos, which are designed to be more of a 'stand-alone' full-range solution to run off OEM power.
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      09-18-2018, 03:59 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
And they are. Focal's inverted metal dome is one of those 'love it or hate it' things. One thing they definitely aren't is warm.



I've heard both Morels through an equivalent system. The Tempo Ultra has a significantly larger magnet and voice coil, and its woofer cone and frame are more rigid. The result is higher power handling, a wider and flatter response, and more stout mid-bass and low-mids that complement the tweeter well. Particularly if you're going to upgrade the underseat drivers with the SWSs, the Tempo Ultras will work better than the Maximos, which are designed to be more of a 'stand-alone' full-range solution to run off OEM power.
Wow, thanks again Mike. You're a wealth of information. Does that mean I shouldn't use the stock amplification if I get the SWS-8? The amp is a significant cost increase ($550 CAD) and I'm reluctant to do the AMP swap due to my own inexperience.

If I don't bother with replacing the stock under-seat woofers then would the wider frequency range of the JL Audio C2-400x be a better idea than the Tempo Ultra or Hertz ECX?

Last edited by pastuch; 09-18-2018 at 04:13 PM..
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      09-19-2018, 11:47 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pastuch View Post
Wow, thanks again Mike. You're a wealth of information. Does that mean I shouldn't use the stock amplification if I get the SWS-8? The amp is a significant cost increase ($550 CAD) and I'm reluctant to do the AMP swap due to my own inexperience.

If I don't bother with replacing the stock under-seat woofers then would the wider frequency range of the JL Audio C2-400x be a better idea than the Tempo Ultra or Hertz ECX?
I think the SWSs will handle power from an aftermarket amp fine if you end up going that route.

The aim with selecting drivers is for them to complement each other regarding frequency loads, response curves, and sonic strengths relative to the type of music you'll be listening to. For instance, the Jehnerts aren't really subs: they are mid-bass drivers. Since you'll be listening to hip hop a lot, you will need a driver that can get to 60-80 Hz easily if need be. The SWSs are built to do that in the space under the seat; the Jehnerts aren't. That said, you may find that the SWSs don't give you enough, so it's best to consider that now instead of later -- meaning if you decide to add an actual subwoofer, the SWSs can serve the bass and mid-bass frequencies fine, too.

In both scenarios above, you won't have a need for a 4-inch coaxial that can get down to 80-120 Hz like either the JL Audio or the Hertzs -- and with the type of music you'll be listening to, that's not a priority, either. You want midrange drivers that can handle vocals, harmonies, and transients well, particularly below 800 Hz or so. The Ultra Tempos fit that bill well -- better than the others mentioned, IMHO, particularly paired with that smooth Morel tweeter.

For reference (and counterpoint): I mostly listen to music with a lot of dynamism and detail: Metal, electronica, progressive instrumentals, jazz. I chose the Hertzs when I upgraded because I knew I would probably upgrade the amp (I did) and wouldn't fool with the underseat drivers (I didn't), and I liked how they sounded combined with its frequency curve and build materials relative to the type of music I enjoy. I've done the same with my home system: I run a sealed SVS sub, paired with bookshelf speakers loaded with a woven-PPL-cone SEAS of Norway driver and a ribbon tweeter powered by a Classe 100-watt Class A amp. I chose all of it because of the type of music I listen to.
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      09-20-2018, 09:09 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
I think the SWSs will handle power from an aftermarket amp fine if you end up going that route.

The aim with selecting drivers is for them to complement each other regarding frequency loads, response curves, and sonic strengths relative to the type of music you'll be listening to. For instance, the Jehnerts aren't really subs: they are mid-bass drivers. Since you'll be listening to hip hop a lot, you will need a driver that can get to 60-80 Hz easily if need be. The SWSs are built to do that in the space under the seat; the Jehnerts aren't. That said, you may find that the SWSs don't give you enough, so it's best to consider that now instead of later -- meaning if you decide to add an actual subwoofer, the SWSs can serve the bass and mid-bass frequencies fine, too.

In both scenarios above, you won't have a need for a 4-inch coaxial that can get down to 80-120 Hz like either the JL Audio or the Hertzs -- and with the type of music you'll be listening to, that's not a priority, either. You want midrange drivers that can handle vocals, harmonies, and transients well, particularly below 800 Hz or so. The Ultra Tempos fit that bill well -- better than the others mentioned, IMHO, particularly paired with that smooth Morel tweeter.

For reference (and counterpoint): I mostly listen to music with a lot of dynamism and detail: Metal, electronica, progressive instrumentals, jazz. I chose the Hertzs when I upgraded because I knew I would probably upgrade the amp (I did) and wouldn't fool with the underseat drivers (I didn't), and I liked how they sounded combined with its frequency curve and build materials relative to the type of music I enjoy. I've done the same with my home system: I run a sealed SVS sub, paired with bookshelf speakers loaded with a woven-PPL-cone SEAS of Norway driver and a ribbon tweeter powered by a Classe 100-watt Class A amp. I chose all of it because of the type of music I listen to.

Terrific! Thank you again. I understand your advice a lot better now.

I also own an SVS sub and it's glorious in my theater and for music.
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      09-21-2018, 10:22 AM   #166
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I also own an SVS sub and it's glorious in my theater and for music.
Yep: SVSs are great all-rounders for the money, particularly the sealed ones ... and low-frequency sound applications like subs have no issues with digital Class D amplification; that's why the first Class D amps in Hi-Fi were used inside powered sub enclosures back in the 1990s. You just gotta make sure the signal cable you're using for LFE is 100 percent shielded from RF/EMI.
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      09-24-2018, 02:17 PM   #167
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Please tell me if you are felling any engine noise through the subwoofer or speakers, because I was testing the JL FX400 and decided to uninstall it due to this noise
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      09-24-2018, 03:31 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pastuch View Post
This is terrific post thank you for the summary Mike.

Three questions:

1. I like a warm non-fatiguing sound. I'm new to car audio but I love NAD/Mirage/PSB/Energy speakers and equipment for my home. Which of the 5 speakers below would you suggest?

I can get a great deal on the Focal ISC100s but I'd need to drive down to the USA to pick them up (I'm in Canada). Not sure they are worth the hassle. I can get the Hertz locally for not too much more.

- Focal ISC100
- Morel Maximo 4c
- Hertz Energy 100.5
- JL Audio C2-400x
- JBL GX-402

2. The SWS-8s are about $320 USD shipped to Canada. At that price I'm wondering if I can get the Jehnert but I've scoured the internet and can't find any vendors. Do you have any suggestions on where to get them?

3. I've read that even just upgrading the 4 speakers is a big upgrade over the Hifi system, is the sub upgrade worth it? I love rap, hip hop, house, rock, and pretty much everything but country.
Hello, please tell me what is your opinion in order to upgrade the standard audio system for a bmw m240i coupe, knowing that I was triying the amplfier JL JX400 and always heard a noise through the subwoofer, reason why I decided to uninstall this.
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      09-24-2018, 04:29 PM   #169
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Hello, please tell me what is your opinion in order to upgrade the standard audio system for a bmw m240i coupe, knowing that I was triying the amplfier JL JX400 and always heard a noise through the subwoofer, reason why I decided to uninstall this.
What you're describing is classic radio frequency modulation, which is almost always caused by an improper ground. The problem wasn't your amplifier; it was how that amplifier was grounded.

Follow these guidelines:
- ALWAYS make the ground as short of a run as possible: ideally no more than 1 foot (.3 meter).
- ALWAYS ground to bare, untreated metal. Primer or anti-rust coating isn't bare metal; you'll need to grind or sand this off.
- ALWAYS use a ground that is part of the car's chassis, not something bolted to the car's chassis. For instance, seat-rail bolts are a common choice to attach a ground to when an amp is mounted under a seat. It's actually a mistake to do this because the metal in the bolt and the rail is often not the same as the chassis and is often coated or painted.
- ALWAYS use zinc or copper hardware to fasten a ground. Stainless steel and nickel are not nearly as conductive and can create problems.
- ALWAYS attach the grounding wire straight to the untreated metal. Washers and bolt/nut heads should be above the wire (and/or whatever fastener that's spliced onto the wire, such as a spade or ring.)
- NEVER share an amplifier ground with another component.

Hope this helps.
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      03-30-2019, 10:30 PM   #170
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I have had the car for a whole week now and have decided that the HIFI audio could be improved. Having read dozens of threads and reviews of various products and options I now have a plan...

1) Focal IFBMW-S for the doors, flush install the tweeters into the non-HK sail covers, sound deadening while I'm in there
2) disconnect centre speaker
3) Technic ASD bypass harness or coding out
4) Earthquake SVS subs for the floor
Stop and evaluate
5) Focal ICU 100 for rears
Stop and evaluate
6) AMP upgrade (likely with DSP capability)

Focals are sensitive and I figure the low power stock amp needs all the help it can get. I can get them locally for a decent price and I like the idea of getting the tweeter up higher towards ear level and the tweeters look OK flush mounted.
Earthquake subs are a good price, I would prefer the Focal subs, but they are 3x the cost. There is a limit to how much money I want to throw at this thing.

I will report back on how it goes.

Last edited by Aspen235; 04-22-2019 at 08:55 AM..
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      04-21-2019, 10:47 AM   #171
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Focals are in! A few snags, especially with the door pull screws not going back in. Sounds much better.

Center channel is out too.

Man the stock speakers are pathetic pieces of junk. They weigh 1/5 of the new focals.

Subs going in next.
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      04-22-2019, 09:12 AM   #172
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Subs are in now too. Pretty good upgrade and I am pleased.

The tweeters being up higher have really raised the imaging with voice coming from the steering wheel vs. down around my lap. I think the custom flush mount of the tweeters was definitely worth my time. I modded the stock non-HK covers with a Dremel and jig saw and got the Focal bezels in nice and tight. I had to dial back the treble in the tone controls about 4 notches because there is a lot of boost in the Hi-Fi amp to compensate for the sorry ass stock "full range" speakers.

I turned the bass down by one notch and shifted the balance to the right 2 and to the rear 2 as well. Will go with that for a while.

I do notice more hiss from the signal now that I have better high frequency capability. I think the stock amp is going to have to be replaced eventually, then things should be very good. I would call the stock system a 2/10, the Focal IFBMW-S components got me to 4/10 and the SWS got me to 5/10. I think an amp with DSP will get me to 7/10.
Then some rear speakers for passengers and a trunk sub would get it really banging.

Shame that it will take more than $2k to equal the stereo in Golf. BMW could do much better here. I mean the HIFI in my X3 is totally adequate as is.
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      04-23-2019, 10:02 PM   #173
nomuffinforyou
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New here, looking at my upgrade options, looking to just replace speakers.

Has anyone tried these yet?

https://www.parts-express.com/grs-b2...-ohms--292-496

https://www.parts-express.com/grs-b1...odels--292-492

They look nice and I've had good experiences with Parts-Express for home audio, but I've never tried GRS or any of their car audio equipment. Anyone have thoughts on these vs the SWS subs and Focal IC 100's or JBL GTO's?
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      04-24-2019, 09:14 AM   #174
Aspen235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomuffinforyou View Post
New here, looking at my upgrade options, looking to just replace speakers.

Has anyone tried these yet?

https://www.parts-express.com/grs-b2...-ohms--292-496

https://www.parts-express.com/grs-b1...odels--292-492

They look nice and I've had good experiences with Parts-Express for home audio, but I've never tried GRS or any of their car audio equipment. Anyone have thoughts on these vs the SWS subs and Focal IC 100's or JBL GTO's?
Interesting. the subs about the same prices as the SVS, hard to say if they would be better or not. The 4" speakers may be pretty good based on the specs and price. Anything is going to be better than the stock HIFI speakers.

One more thing, they list 70hz for the frequency extension for the 4", I find that hard to believe. It would be down at least 10db at that point.

Last edited by Aspen235; 04-24-2019 at 09:22 AM..
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      04-24-2019, 10:26 AM   #175
nomuffinforyou
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I'm really tempted to pull the trigger on the speakers, especially since they're straight drop in replacements.

The subs though.... I'm more inclined by the SWS or Match ones, the GRS model really poorly in WinISD with basically no low end extension (-6 at 63Hz vs 45Hz for the Match woofers and 35Hz for the SWS), but I'm also not sure how to account for cabin gain or that they're basically mounted free air (my understanding is the enclosures are open on the back).

On the other hand the SWS look like they should have great low end extension, but depending on how the location plays out might be boomy with a high Qtc and difficult to match with the rest of the system with the lower sensitivity and a lack of >100hz output.

The Match subs seem to be a nice middle ground between the two, they model flatter than the SWS and with better low end extension than the GRS and more 100-200hz than the SWS, but, they're also ~$140 more expensive and slightly less sensitive.

Also, you basically called it, modeled in a sealed enclosure the coaxials are -10 at 70Hz.
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      04-24-2019, 12:44 PM   #176
Aspen235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomuffinforyou View Post

The subs though.... I'm more inclined by the SWS or Match ones, the GRS model really poorly in WinISD with basically no low end extension (-6 at 63Hz vs 45Hz for the Match woofers and 35Hz for the SWS), but I'm also not sure how to account for cabin gain or that they're basically mounted free air (my understanding is the enclosures are open on the back).
The stock enclosures are definitely open. There are two large ports that open into the side rail of the chassis. There is lots of volume in there I would surmise, may or may not be closed. I would guess that there are holes though and the seal from enclosure to chassis not air tight.
I put some dynamat on the back side of the enclosure for fun.
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