[krhodes1]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Am I 100% sure my dentist used fluoride on my teeth and not just some toothpaste? Nope, but thats why I use someone who I trust.

BMW dealers would not be in their best interest to scam you over for a small amount of oil.

If it's a small fly by night repair shop in Jamacia Queens where every mechanic is stoned out of their mind so that they may legitimately forget to change your oil, then yeah - I would be worried.

If you are that concerned, buy an oil pump kit that lets you pump the oil out the top to view and look at it before and after.

At that point, just change the oil yourself. If you plan on owning the car for the long haul and are concerned about the long term engine life and shadiness of dealers then buy a box of oil and some ramps and do it yourself.

Not sure how you would pump the oil out the top with no dipstick tube, but I suppose if you are that anal all you really need to do is unscrew the cover over the oil filter and have a look at it. It uses an O-ring so unlikely to leak after if it has just been replaced.

Or as you say, just DIY. After July 28 this year, my car is unlikely to darken the dealer's door ever again. I don't like their cappuccino enough to pay their rates, and with four cars I don't need a loaner. Quicker and easier to just do it myself. And much, much cheaper.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

Not sure how you would pump the oil out the top with no dipstick tube, but I suppose if you are that anal all you really need to do is unscrew the cover over the oil filter and have a look at it. It uses an O-ring so unlikely to leak after if it has just been replaced.

Or as you say, just DIY. After July 28 this year, my car is unlikely to darken the dealer's door ever again. I don't like their cappuccino enough to pay their rates, and with four cars I don't need a loaner. Quicker and easier to just do it myself. And much, much cheaper.

You just pump it through the oil filling hole with the tube from the pump

[quiksilver1029]

Originally Posted by EEBreh

My father brought his car in for an oil change and they never changed the filter. Want to know how he knew? He stamped the filter.

My uncle also purchased a certified BMW M3 that had a clean title. Within the second day he noticed it rode funny and stopped by at the previous owners office (he was a dentist). The dentist told him it was in a front end collision and the dealer completely lied to him. Luckily my uncle got his money back.

Not every dealer is perfect, no need to be an asshole to someone who asks a legitimate question. Also some people keep their cars a long time and do not want to cause damage to an engine. Look up the e46 that didnt have its oil changed after 30 or 40k miles. It was a mess!

Outliers like that e46 are not what my piece was about. And buying a used car is an entirely different topic with no relevance to this. It is always buyer beware in those instances because there are a million and one reasons for a seller to lie about having been in a collision. But an oil change?? The OP is suggesting that if you don't change your own oil then then you might as well not get it changed at all, because the risk that the dealer isn't actually changing it outweighs the benefits of getting a free oil change and making use of our ultimate service, and that is an unusually extreme position to take. Not being an asshole just injecting some common sense into this thread.

[shark715]

There are a couple of related issues.

Was the tech who worked on your car in a rush and not let the dirty oil fully drain? Techs at dealerships tend to get paid by the job, not by the hour, so unfortunately it's an incentive for them to rush and they are always looking for shortcuts. In my book a 5 to 8 minute drain is not enough (admittedly its much better than no change at all). Best to get as much of the dirty oil out as you can. When I do my own oil changes I let the crankcase drain overnight whenever practical. You might be surprised how much dirty oil comes out after the initial 15 minutes. Of course this is not strictly a dealership issue. How many times have you seen a fast oil change place re-install your drain plug in just 5 minutes? And of course you are going to find few establishments interested in letting your oil drain overnight, and it may not be feasible for you to do your own oil changes. But I will say I've had several engines last 250k+ miles.

The other issue is that your engine should be at full operating temperature before the drain plug is pulled. Hot oil is thinner and will flow more freely out the drain, carrying more impurities with it, and in an engine at full operating temperature those impurities (such as sludge, for example) will more likely be liquified and carried out of the drain by the oil. Too many times I've seen customers who dropped off their vehicle for oil service early in the morning, and the car sits for many hours before being pulled into the garage. At that point the engine is barely warmed up and certainly no where near full operating temperature. I tend to plan my oil changes so that the vehicle has been driven at least 10 to 15 miles immediately before the plug is pulled.

Overkill? Perhaps, but again I've had several engines over 250,000 miles.

[Cyberdemon]

At the end of the day if you are concerned about all of these things (which if you want to own the car for 200k is totally OK by me) then just do the oil change yourself.

I've been through 8 cars (plus 4 on my wife's side) and for the most part I've never had any issues with oil change places. My sister claimed a place failed to change her oil once but that was because she took it to another mechanic afterwards (who may have just been lying to her to gain her business - again, shady NYC corner mechanics are mostly all crooks).

I do almost every repair that I can myself, but when it involves dumping all the coolant or oil I take it to a shop simply so I don't have to deal with disposing of it afterwards.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

I do almost every repair that I can myself, but when it involves dumping all the coolant or oil I take it to a shop simply so I don't have to deal with disposing of it afterwards.

I don't mind doing it myself (and completely understand that others don't have the time, place, or inclination), and there happens to be a Pep Boys down the street from my office. They will take your drain oil at no charge if you happen to have one near you. Unfortunately we have some of the crooked mechanics and garages here in Jersey too, but there are some top notch ones, although it would not be reasonable for me to expect any of them to take the steps I do with oil changes.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by quiksilver1029

No and I don't need to be since I'm not paying for the oil change and if the engine blows up because they never changed it, then the jokes on them because they'll have pay to fix it since I have the paperwork saying I brought it in for all its scheduled oil changes.



But it seems you already answered your own question, so why don't you close out this chapter of your existential crisis and follow your own advice. If you don't believe in the underlying principles of competitive advantage and think that you can do everything better yourself or don't even trust that others are doing what they say they are going to do then fine, live your life with a philosophy of undying skepticism. I know bmw can perform an oil change more efficiently than me and I'm ok taking the probable 1% chance that they're hoarding their oil. Why don't you ask your service advisor if you can watch or record the whole process because you think you're getting ripped off. Maybe they will even let you open a new, sealed oil bottle to make sure no one has tampered with it. Sorry for the harshness but I think there are better things to do with your time than start conspiracy theories about oil changes on web forums.

Agreed. Unbelieveable paranoia. Do it yourself. Must be awful being so sceptical about everything.

[Cyberdemon]

A good mechanic goes a long way. Finding some place you can trust is key. Dealerships make that harder when they have massive service departments with 50 different techs and rotating service managers and CAs.

With that in mind both my BMW's have been leases - specifically because I don't care what they do or don't do when they service the car. It will be their car when they are done and I hope they have their best interests in mind.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

Agreed. Unbelieveable paranoia. Do it yourself. Must be awful being so sceptical about everything.

I don't think it's paranoia at all. If you were more familiar with what actually goes on in a dealer's service department you might feel otherwise. There is a huge incentive for techs to cut corners and rush given that they are most often paid by the job and not by the hour. I've had cars returned to me that had too little oil, too much oil, tools left under the hood, missing bolts and screws, wheel lug nuts incorrectly tightened, check engine lights that were on after a repair, and in one case the oil was not changed at all when it was supposed to be. I don't think the dealer was trying to cheat me out of oil and a filter, i think the tech was just rushing and simply forgot. If you plan to keep the car beyond the warranty period you might want to consider the possibility that a missed oil change could certainly be the cause of significant engine work much later on (on your dime). There are some terrific techs out there and there are some really sloppy ones, and sometimes they are working side by side in the same dealership. BMW and Mercedes dealers are not immune to this. If you have the knowledge and ability to double check to make sure the work on your car was done correctly, it can't hurt.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by shark715

I don't think it's paranoia at all. If you were more familiar with what actually goes on in a dealer's service department you might feel otherwise. There is a huge incentive for techs to cut corners and rush given that they are most often paid by the job and not by the hour. I've had cars returned to me that had too little oil, too much oil, tools left under the hood, missing bolts and screws, wheel lug nuts incorrectly tightened, check engine lights that were on after a repair, and in one case the oil was not changed at all when it was supposed to be. I don't think the dealer was trying to cheat me out of oil and a filter, i think the tech was just rushing and simply forgot. If you plan to keep the car beyond the warranty period you might want to consider the possibility that a missed oil change could certainly be the cause of significant engine work much later on (on your dime). There are some terrific techs out there and there are some really sloppy ones, and sometimes they are working side by side in the same dealership. BMW and Mercedes dealers are not immune to this. If you have the knowledge and ability to double check to make sure the work on your car was done correctly, it can't hurt.

The only way to be certain things get done is to either watch or do it yourself i guess. I'm not doing either. Right or wrong, I trust them.

[DSTR]

My BMW mechanic is my friend. We go out and have dinner etc. I know quite well what is completed. If not he pays for dinner

[SteveInfante]

Originally Posted by DSTR

My BMW mechanic is my friend. We go out and have dinner etc. I know quite well what is completed. If not he pays for dinner

I think that's fair. I can easily see both sides of this discussion and the pros and cons for each opinion. I share a little of both. I plan on doing my own oil changes in between the "Ultimate Service" scheduled ones because I want my car to last for over 200K. 15K is just too long for my liking. I plan to track my car too so fresh oil will coincide with those outings. I don't baby cars and if the widgets in the computer are telling me I'm due for an oil change at rather short intervals because I push my car hard and the brakes are looking a little tired then I'm happy. I hope the SA and techs like the smell of hot brakes. I'm not trading the car in so it's my abuse it will be taking and only mine. Until one of my sons inherits it someday.

Prost!