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      05-16-2019, 03:55 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
This is not really an off topic discussion. The thread should be in the M3 forum. Any likes will count for less reputation points if it is off topic. Moderator should move it.
Who cares about "like" points? :

Maybe the OP wants the opinions of a more diverse crowd than just those in the M3 forum.
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      05-16-2019, 04:07 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
This is not really an off topic discussion. The thread should be in the M3 forum. Any likes will count for less reputation points if it is off topic. Moderator should move it.
Who cares about "like" points? :

Maybe the OP wants the opinions of a more diverse crowd than just those in the M3 forum.
Nobody cares except for the moderators.
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      05-16-2019, 04:51 PM   #69
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this is more off topic than on topic

ill allow it.
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      05-16-2019, 05:07 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauldunlop13 View Post
Owning vs renting. Either can be cheaper
But I find most people compare a mortgage payment to a rent payment and say owning is cheaper

My experience is that all items need to be added up

1. Weekly trips to Home Depot/ Loweís for lawn and house stuff
2. New roof every 15-20 years
3. HVAC replacements
4. Water heater replacements
5. Washer and dryer replacements
6. Mental happiness (no price for this one). Some people have to own to be satisfied

It is very important for all financials to be added and factored into monthly payments. Not just the base amounts.

I owned from age 23-44
I have now rented for the last 4 years and I have to say I am enjoying it now.

Each to their own
In your list, you've neglected to offset the list with the equity gained in the property and any appreciation. Depending on the house you buy, you don't have to worry about the above issues. I've been in my house for 18 years. Bought it as new construction. I'm only now looking at having to replace the roof. I haven't had to do anything with the HVAC nor the hot water heater. I would say from the time I bought the house till now, the house has appreciated around $200k. And if you bring in interest payments, some of it along with property taxes have been offset by my ability to deduct these from my taxes. You can't deduct anything renting.
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      05-16-2019, 05:43 PM   #71
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All this advice saying "if you can afford it, do it." If OP could afford it, why would he even ask?

Seeking advice on on this topic I'm a forum will yield impulse answers from us all. And if you are truly taking advice from us in this, you are not ready financially or emotionally for such a car purchase.

OP, my gut says you already know what you should do.
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      05-16-2019, 06:01 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
In your list, you've neglected to offset the list with the equity gained in the property and any appreciation. Depending on the house you buy, you don't have to worry about the above issues. I've been in my house for 18 years. Bought it as new construction. I'm only now looking at having to replace the roof. I haven't had to do anything with the HVAC nor the hot water heater. I would say from the time I bought the house till now, the house has appreciated around $200k. And if you bring in interest payments, some of it along with property taxes have been offset by my ability to deduct these from my taxes. You can't deduct anything renting.
This is 100% true, I don't make weekly trips to home depot for the lawn (one of the best in the neighborhood too), water heaters are honestly cheap, dryers/washers can be found used for cheap only a few years old etc etc. I can afford to replace my roof every 10 years and my equity will still win, I've gained 50k in equity in the last 3 years on my property. Hell, my mortgage on my home is $300 less than my brother pays in rent in a cheaper area not including my interest/property tax deductions...

Funniest thing is that rentals are generally maintained like shit and have terrible appliances. When I was renting my power bill was $100 at the cheapest up to $150 a month for a 1200 Sq Ft apartment. I now own a 2400 Sq ft home and my power bill averages from $60-$120 per month due to energy efficient designs.
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      05-16-2019, 06:47 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
You do realize that owning is cheaper than renting right? Nobody is going to charge you less in rent than they pay to own it. If you think you can rent an equal living space for cheaper than you can buy, you found a fool or you are missing costs.

Also, when you buy you get infinitely more equity than if you rent.

For the OP - When I was younger I would have said go for it (I did) but now that I have gotten wiser I say use the $$ for something else until you can buy the car without having to ask if you can afford it. Mine worked out well, I was car poor for a few years, but I still own the Z 12 years later and love every minute of it. I got lucky with no major maintenance, but I also bought new so I had less risk as well (free maintenance for a majority of the loan period)
I wonít derail the thread further. I will just say if you are paying the full mortgage itís due to market conditions, not because thatís what the owner pays.
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      05-16-2019, 06:50 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
but whats the cost to rent those mill plus places?

people arent going to rent their places for less than what they spend for owning + property management fees + a little extra.

no one is just giving places away unless you are in the middle of nowhere
haha, so wrong my friend... this is universally false in the downtown area of Miami... unless you bought cash, your monthly ins are always less than your outs...

Common Example- 300K condo miami... rent ~$1700 a mos (at most)... loan is about that for 30 years plus $430 HOA and $250 a mo taxes... talk about a terrible deal to purchase...
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      05-16-2019, 07:23 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
haha, so wrong my friend... this is universally false in the downtown area of Miami... unless you bought cash, your monthly ins are always less than your outs...

Common Example- 300K condo miami... rent ~$1700 a mos (at most)... loan is about that for 30 years plus $430 HOA and $250 a mo taxes... talk about a terrible deal to purchase...
If you do airbnb you can take in at least double
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      05-16-2019, 07:48 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
haha, so wrong my friend... this is universally false in the downtown area of Miami... unless you bought cash, your monthly ins are always less than your outs...

Common Example- 300K condo miami... rent ~$1700 a mos (at most)... loan is about that for 30 years plus $430 HOA and $250 a mo taxes... talk about a terrible deal to purchase...
If you do airbnb you can take in at least double
sure if its legal in your condo / jurisdiction and can be done permanently
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      05-16-2019, 07:49 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
In your list, you've neglected to offset the list with the equity gained in the property and any appreciation. Depending on the house you buy, you don't have to worry about the above issues. I've been in my house for 18 years. Bought it as new construction. I'm only now looking at having to replace the roof. I haven't had to do anything with the HVAC nor the hot water heater. I would say from the time I bought the house till now, the house has appreciated around $200k. And if you bring in interest payments, some of it along with property taxes have been offset by my ability to deduct these from my taxes. You can't deduct anything renting.
DC and California are atypical of national market trends. Nationally, houses from 1963-2008 earned, on average about 4% per annum. Obviously that means some markets gained and some have lost.

And again, although your house gained in value $200k, youíve probably paid double at this point of what the original sale price was just with interest included. Tax deductibility on mortgage interest only maybe gives you a third of what you paid back. Again, not saying you wonít make money, but it will be far less than you think. And I am providing a rule of thumb. Thereís clearly variability in all of that.

The other thing to consider is that for most people, a home is a major investment. You are putting a lot of trust into one instrument that it will gain value, when typically you invest in your 401k or stock market, you will diversify whatever you put in across several different markets and investment types. A house is a singular market and opens you up to wider market ups and downs.

Iím not here to tell anyone what to do, just sharing my experiences. I will say that while your home in DC May have gained $200k, my navy friend in Hampton Roads has lost $70k in value from the original purchase price.
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      05-16-2019, 07:51 PM   #78
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sure if its legal in your condo / jurisdiction and can be done permanently
I've heard of condo owners doing it, presumably it's allowed by the HOA to rent out the property including airbnb. I own the land my house sits on so I can let people stay for free or for money, just as long as it doesn't bother my neighbors. My next door neighbor converted their garage and are renting it out, pretty sure if they wanted they could airbnb, anyway if it was somehow illegal it's fine if no one knows.
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      05-16-2019, 07:51 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by natedog7700 View Post
I recently sold my 335, and now i really want a F80 M3 soooo bad I know its a terrible financial decision and it makes no sense, but its the car ive always wanted since i was 13 years old. Not to mention i hate not having a "sports" car, ive always had something since 17 years old. The only thing holding me back is the giant price tag that comes with it... What do you guys think? Am i making really bad decision here?

My situation

Income: 65k/year
Own my daily (09 Camry)
I own a duplex and i pay less than half my mortgage and i split that with my GF (hopefully soon to be wife) No other debt to my name.
i have a solid 10k to put down and the M3 i want is $42,000
from a non-emotional financial standpoint based on what you're telling me- no, don't do it. you'll be broke.
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      05-16-2019, 07:53 PM   #80
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
sure if its legal in your condo / jurisdiction and can be done permanently
I've heard of condo owners doing it, presumably it's allowed by the HOA to rent out the property including airbnb. I own the land my house sits on so I can let people stay for free or for money, just as long as it doesn't bother my neighbors. My next door neighbor converted their garage and are renting it out, pretty sure if they wanted they could airbnb, anyway if it was somehow illegal it's fine if no one knows.
sure but how ru to do that in a place you live lol
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      05-16-2019, 07:53 PM   #81
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If you count your future wife's income it might make sense.
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      05-16-2019, 07:54 PM   #82
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sure but how ru to do that in a place you live lol
Just rent out my spare room.
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      05-16-2019, 08:00 PM   #83
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If he's only paying 1/4 of the mortgage payment(I think that's what he means when he says he pays less than half and his g/f splits that with him) then yeah I think you could afford it, since you have no other debt.
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      05-16-2019, 08:09 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by c1pher View Post
DC and California are atypical of national market trends. Nationally, houses from 1963-2008 earned, on average about 4% per annum. Obviously that means some markets gained and some have lost.

And again, although your house gained in value $200k, you’ve probably paid double at this point of what the original sale price was just with interest included. Tax deductibility on mortgage interest only maybe gives you a third of what you paid back. Again, not saying you won’t make money, but it will be far less than you think. And I am providing a rule of thumb. There’s clearly variability in all of that.

The other thing to consider is that for most people, a home is a major investment. You are putting a lot of trust into one instrument that it will gain value, when typically you invest in your 401k or stock market, you will diversify whatever you put in across several different markets and investment types. A house is a singular market and opens you up to wider market ups and downs.

I’m not here to tell anyone what to do, just sharing my experiences. I will say that while your home in DC May have gained $200k, my navy friend in Hampton Roads has lost $70k in value from the original purchase price.
Unless you got into some really screwed up mortgage/home purchase, you will always get equity out of the house paying into it. Doesn't matter what your total cash out lay is. With renting, it's 100% guaranteed you will have zero to show for it in the end because your payments don't go to owning anything.

I really don't look at my house as an investment solely. It's a place I live in. We all have to pay for a place to live in. I would rather have my payments go into something I will have some equity in. It may sound harsh but renting to me is just flushing money down the toilet. Now I know not everyone has the means to buy property due to market prices and having to come up with a down payment. But one should set this as a goal.

I swallowed my pride and moved back in with my parents after college so I could pay down debt and save up money to get into my first place. Once you get into your first home (provided you didn't get into a questionable property), moving on to the next property is typically easier. Especially when the Feds allow you to shelter $250k of appreciation if you're single or $500k if you're married to sink into your next home.
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      05-16-2019, 08:18 PM   #85
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Something else I wanted to add that's more to the topic of this thread. It's interesting how a certain mindset provides arguments against buying real estate. Yet, won't apply the same logic when buying a car. It's actually worse when you look at owning a car. It's pretty much a given you will lose money when you buy any car. It's at what rate which varies between cars. And owning cars will always require maintenance at some point during the year. Many times multiple maintenance events.

At least with a home, you're not guaranteed to immediately lose money on it and you actually stand a chance to gain money.
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      05-17-2019, 08:24 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c1pher View Post
DC and California are atypical of national market trends. Nationally, houses from 1963-2008 earned, on average about 4% per annum. Obviously that means some markets gained and some have lost.

And again, although your house gained in value $200k, you’ve probably paid double at this point of what the original sale price was just with interest included. Tax deductibility on mortgage interest only maybe gives you a third of what you paid back. Again, not saying you won’t make money, but it will be far less than you think. And I am providing a rule of thumb. There’s clearly variability in all of that.

The other thing to consider is that for most people, a home is a major investment. You are putting a lot of trust into one instrument that it will gain value, when typically you invest in your 401k or stock market, you will diversify whatever you put in across several different markets and investment types. A house is a singular market and opens you up to wider market ups and downs.

I’m not here to tell anyone what to do, just sharing my experiences. I will say that while your home in DC May have gained $200k, my navy friend in Hampton Roads has lost $70k in value from the original purchase price.
and yet, unless the house value goes to $0, you will still come out ahead when you move on after 30 years compared to renting for 30 years.

it seems you are looking at it of paying mortgage vs not paying anything almost.

2k/month for 30 years on a mortgage is the same as 2k/month for 30 years of renting. you are still going to pay the same amount over that time. Sure, you can maybe add another 50-75k over 30 years in maintenance if you are going for top tier costs, but after 30 years, you have a rent free place to live vs continuing to pay rent for another XX amount of years.
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      05-17-2019, 02:19 PM   #87
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Quote:
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Something else I wanted to add that's more to the topic of this thread. It's interesting how a certain mindset provides arguments against buying real estate. Yet, won't apply the same logic when buying a car. It's actually worse when you look at owning a car. It's pretty much a given you will lose money when you buy any car. It's at what rate which varies between cars. And owning cars will always require maintenance at some point during the year. Many times multiple maintenance events.

At least with a home, you're not guaranteed to immediately lose money on it and you actually stand a chance to gain money.
My guess is that these folks also favor leasing ("renting") a car.
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      05-17-2019, 03:24 PM   #88
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My guess is that these folks also favor leasing ("renting") a car.
Very different decisions. I own my home but prefer to lease my cars for a variety of reasons covered in many other threads.
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