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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BIMMERPOST Universal Forums Off-Topic Discussions Board Politics/Religion Money in Politics: Super Pacs. Good or bad.

View Poll Results: Are Super-Pacs good for America?
Yes 2 7.41%
No 22 81.48%
Gray area 2 7.41%
Who cares! 1 3.70%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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      03-11-2019, 10:43 AM   #1
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Money in Politics: Super Pacs. Good or bad.

Are super-pacs good for America?

A super PAC is a modern breed of a political action committee that's allowed to raise and spend unlimited amounts of money from corporations, unions, individuals, and associations to influence the outcome of state and federal elections. ... They are relatively easy to create under federal election laws.Jan 25, 2019
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      03-11-2019, 10:50 AM   #2
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The reason for this thread is this article I read, and my well known disdain for the Koch brothers and their methods, especially their attacks on John McCain.

GOP meddles in Democratic nomination with takedown of O ... - Politico
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...attack-1214805
19 hours ago - A prominent conservative group is thrusting itself into the Democratic primary with a TV ad assailing Beto O'Rourke a move that comes as ...


In wanting to shape the democratic field further to the left, they forget the lesson of 2016: a radical CAN win the election. I think they are wrong to do this.
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      03-13-2019, 09:18 AM   #3
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Our campaign finance laws are wrong on a whole lot of fronts, and Super PACs are definitely one of them.
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      03-13-2019, 10:12 AM   #4
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Citizens United is still one of the worst SCOTUS rulings ever.
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      03-13-2019, 10:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
The reason for this thread is this article I read, and my well known disdain for the Koch brothers and their methods, especially their attacks on John McCain.

GOP meddles in Democratic nomination with takedown of O ... - Politico
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...attack-1214805
19 hours ago - A prominent conservative group is thrusting itself into the Democratic primary with a TV ad assailing Beto O'Rourke — a move that comes as ...


In wanting to shape the democratic field further to the left, they forget the lesson of 2016: a radical CAN win the election. I think they are wrong to do this.
Please don't ignore the Democrats use of super PACs as well... Definitely should be eliminated from our political system/process. Agree re: Koch brothers but lets talk about George Soros.
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      03-13-2019, 12:39 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by kscarrol View Post
Please don't ignore the Democrats use of super PACs as well... Definitely should be eliminated from our political system/process. Agree re: Koch brothers but lets talk about George Soros.
How do you feel about Bloomberg?
How about EarthJustice and the Sierra Club?
And one foundation after another?

How do you eliminate their direct advertising and spending without infringing on their free speech rights?
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      03-13-2019, 02:16 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by 2000cs View Post
How do you feel about Bloomberg?
How about EarthJustice and the Sierra Club?
And one foundation after another?

How do you eliminate their direct advertising and spending without infringing on their free speech rights?
Fucking Citizens United....
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      03-13-2019, 02:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000cs View Post
How do you feel about Bloomberg?
How about EarthJustice and the Sierra Club?
And one foundation after another?

How do you eliminate their direct advertising and spending without infringing on their free speech rights?
Excellent question but perhaps some kind of cap on spending on a candidates behalf just like there is a limit on how much an individual can donate to a candidate...
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      03-13-2019, 04:52 PM   #9
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They are all terrible, no matter which party they are trying to gain influence upon. It's terrible that such a thing is acceptable. I put Super Pacs and political lobbying right up there with the recent university cheating scandal. It supports my argument that when you're ultra wealthy, you get to influence and make the rules. It's sickening.
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      03-13-2019, 05:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
They are all terrible, no matter which party they are trying to gain influence upon. It's terrible that such a thing is acceptable. I put Super Pacs and political lobbying right up there with the recent university cheating scandal. It supports my argument that when you're ultra wealthy, you get to influence and make the rules. It's sickening.
Let's face it, this is no longer a government of the people, by the people.

It's whoever has the biggest checkbook.
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      03-13-2019, 05:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
They are all terrible, no matter which party they are trying to gain influence upon. It's terrible that such a thing is acceptable. I put Super Pacs and political lobbying right up there with the recent university cheating scandal. It supports my argument that when you're ultra wealthy, you get to influence and make the rules. It's sickening.
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Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Let's face it, this is no longer a government of the people, by the people.

It's whoever has the biggest checkbook.
You gentlemen, win Tag-Team Internet of the Day. Congratulations!!

While I may almost never agree with each of you on almost anything, this is so bad that no matter where you fall along the political spectrum, it's simply wrong. It brings no value to the citizens and seeks to exert unfair leverage on the entire system to the advantage of a select few.

Well done!!
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      03-14-2019, 01:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
You gentlemen, win Tag-Team Internet of the Day. Congratulations!!

While I may almost never agree with each of you on almost anything, this is so bad that no matter where you fall along the political spectrum, it's simply wrong. It brings no value to the citizens and seeks to exert unfair leverage on the entire system to the advantage of a select few.

Well done!!
says the guy who used to wield said leverage
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      03-14-2019, 01:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
You gentlemen, win Tag-Team Internet of the Day. Congratulations!!

While I may almost never agree with each of you on almost anything, this is so bad that no matter where you fall along the political spectrum, it's simply wrong. It brings no value to the citizens and seeks to exert unfair leverage on the entire system to the advantage of a select few.

Well done!!
https://business.financialpost.com/o...das-government

And the canadian hippies and hipsters fell for it.
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      03-14-2019, 02:12 PM   #14
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I remember an interview with Morgan Freeman, and he talked about how proud he was to contribute to Obama's campaign. I was upset he supported Obama, but, hey, its his own money. Individual contributions are fine with me (obviously). But Corporate? Where are corporations guaranteed free speech? I don't think free speech should extend to super pacs either. If a Koch or Soros or Steyer wants to put their name on it, fine. But not Citizens United, or any other of that ilk.
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      03-14-2019, 03:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
says the guy who used to wield said leverage
Who said I stopped...


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      03-14-2019, 05:38 PM   #16
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Yeah, campaign finance is difficult, because almost any sensible rules you make can easily be avoided.

If you ban donations from foreign entities people just incorporate domestic companies.
If you ban donations from companies, companies pay dividends to wealthy individuals with a gentleman's agreement that they'll donate that to the candidate.
If you limit the amount an individual can donate, committees are formed to distribute the donations across multiple individuals.
If you ban donations all together, people provide in-kind contributions (free radio/tv coverage, pay for "volunteers" to work for the candidate etc.); and elections become a lot more expensive for the taxpayer.

One thing that you can do, which some states in Australia do (but others don't) is near-real-time identified reporting of donations. So coming into an election, voters can log into a website and see that the Candidate received a $20 million donation from Phillip Morris before you vote for them.
... and some people get around that by having "The Sydney Institute" hold an invitation only event with a $10,000 entrance fee, which is attended by 50 Phillip Morris employees - so the publicly reported entity is "The Sydney Institute", not Phillip Morris.

The other thing you can do is the same as what football teams do. Introduce salary caps, marketing budget caps and any in-kind contributions must be accounted for at their market value. Then it doesn't matter how much they can raise, or who they get it from, because after a certain point they're unable to spend the money. I'm sure there are ways around this, but AFAIK this option has been so politically unpopular that no democratic jurisdiction has tried it.

Personally (and I know this is slightly off-topic), I wish countries could introduce criminal offences for lying during an election campaign. Like, from the time an election is called until the time that the votes that are counted, any candidate can be called to prove evidence for any claim, and if it isn't proven to be true on the balance of probabilities, they face prison time.

Hopefully this would stop shit like "If we leave the EU we could fully fund NHS"
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      03-16-2019, 08:16 AM   #17
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My contention is that the 2016 presidential election disproved the theory that the candidate with the most political donations wins. This is a non-issue... except that we should error on the side of freedom and liberty. For this reason I voted Yes.
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      03-16-2019, 08:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
I remember an interview with Morgan Freeman, and he talked about how proud he was to contribute to Obama's campaign. I was upset he supported Obama, but, hey, its his own money. Individual contributions are fine with me (obviously). But Corporate? Where are corporations guaranteed free speech? I don't think free speech should extend to super pacs either. If a Koch or Soros or Steyer wants to put their name on it, fine. But not Citizens United, or any other of that ilk.
No. We don't acquire our freedoms from the government. Our default position is freedom and liberty. So I ask... Where is it said that corporations and groups aren't guaranteed free speech? I'll answer my own question... The McCain–Feingold Act... and the SCOTUS determined it wasn't constitutional.
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      03-16-2019, 08:29 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Citizens United is still one of the worst SCOTUS rulings ever.
it funny, this is one of ruling both democrats and republicans hate.
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      03-16-2019, 08:31 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
The reason for this thread is this article I read, and my well known disdain for the Koch brothers and their methods, especially their attacks on John McCain.

GOP meddles in Democratic nomination with takedown of O ... - Politico
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...attack-1214805
19 hours ago - A prominent conservative group is thrusting itself into the Democratic primary with a TV ad assailing Beto O'Rourke — a move that comes as ...


In wanting to shape the democratic field further to the left, they forget the lesson of 2016: a radical CAN win the election. I think they are wrong to do this.
Ok you think it's an error for Koch to create the ad. That's fair. But it's an entirely different thing to argue that the government should be able to ban them from creating the advertisement. That is on the wrong side of freedom.
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      03-16-2019, 08:34 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Citizens United is still one of the worst SCOTUS rulings ever.
it funny, this is one of ruling both democrats and republicans hate.
Personally I completely support the SCOTUS ruling on this case. I wonder how many people that are against this case truly understand the issues at play. 🤔
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      03-16-2019, 09:46 AM   #22
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Personally I completely support the SCOTUS ruling on this case. I wonder how many people that are against this case truly understand the issues at play. 🤔
I would like to hear why your in support of this ruling. I personally don't believe a entity should be entitle personhood rights as it simple an entity.
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