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      05-09-2019, 10:10 PM   #1
jLaFlare
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Moving From Diesel. Need Advice

Hi All,

I have been driving an E90 335D for the last 3 years, and need to move on.

Test drove a m240i, even though I knew it was a out of my price range just to establish a baseline.

I've always loved the 340i with the B58, but don't really want to pay for one at this time.(new or pre-owned)

Purchased and drove a less expensive 550i for 5 days, and didn't really like it. Too big and boaty feeling, and huge gas hog coming from my diesel 500+ mile tank. (Returned it and got my diesel back)

After all this I've been looking at m235i's for about a year and a half and have been recommend one by m235i owners. The price point for pre-owned is pretty good at this time, but I've been seeing a lot of comparisons lately on the 228i.

I'm used to a lot of torque, so i'm not sure if the 228i would suffice, but I really like the prices i'm seeing. I really want to have a go-karty/fun car to drive for the 2-3 years.

Any suggestions and or comments would be appreciated.
I'm currently looking at a 2016 CPO 228i as well as a 57k miles m235i

Thanks in Advance

Last edited by jLaFlare; 05-09-2019 at 10:15 PM.. Reason: typo
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      05-09-2019, 10:55 PM   #2
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Well what did you like and what can you afford? I had a 235i for 3 years and loved it. 228i that I drove handled a little better but lacked the power I wanted.
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      05-10-2019, 05:48 AM   #3
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I moved from a 330d xDrive Touring to my current M235i Convertible - something of a contrast.

Yes, you will not get the torque of the big 6-cyl diesels that allows the auto to pretty much stay in 8th. when cruising, even with pretty steep hills. So if you do a lot of driving of this type, expect more gear changing. Ditto if you regularly carry a weight of passengers and baggage, or tow a trailer etc.

But in my case, and I suspect yours, it's only me our two of us in the car, and I am not doing long commutes any more. The M235i is so much more fun and engaging, and the convertible transforms a lot of what would otherwise be pretty boring journeys. Summing it up, the 330d was a great as a workhorse, and for long journeys, but the M235i has been much more enjoyable and fun. After 3 years, this is the first car in a long time that I plan not to change, but keep indefinitely.

Two caveats are that I do have an old hatchback workhorse for local journeys to the dump and supermarket, and the M235i does have a surprisingly small fuel tank - think about 300 miles range when full. Oh, and make sure you go for a model where the rear seats folds down (this was an option at one time on UK models) - the hatch through from the trunk isn't that big but it does make a big difference to what you can carry.
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      05-10-2019, 09:05 AM   #4
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The N55 in M235 is quite torquey, especially with the 8 speed automatic which is light years ahead of what you have now in your 330D. However, it won't match the initial low end grunt of a 3.0TD, but after 4,000rpms, the N55 will completely run away from the 3.0TD. There will be a lot more shifting in the M235 as well, but that's just the nature of gasoline vs diesel. Gas mileage won't be quite the same, but it won't be terrible. I get around 22mpg in mostly city driving and getting on it often and 28-30mpg on the highway. I have a 6MT which gets lower mpgs. The 8AT will probably get an extra couple of mpgs in both scenarios.

The chassis of the M235 will feel far more lively than the 330D, especially when you hustle it. In 5/10 or less driving, the M235 feels pretty good, though many note it's a bit soft and rolls a bit. However, when you really push the car, it really does come alive and everything starts coming together to make it a true street-focused sports car. It's small size and strong power make it far easier to put the car where you want it.

The M235 and the N55 have proven to be quite reliable by BMW standards, but buying one out of warranty and with 57K miles means you could be in for some maintenance and repairs quite soon. If you don't service your cars yourself, the costs could be somewhat high. Here's what you could be looking at to fix within the first 1 to 2 years of ownership, many of these things being quite simple for a DIYer but quite pricey at a shop (shop prices listed):

1) New front and rear rotors and pads ($2000)
2) Brake fluid and coolant flush ($400)
3) New water pump and t-stat ($1000)
4) Valve cover and oil filter gasket ($1500)
5) Coolant lines ($300)
6) Spark plugs ($500)
7) A coilpack or two ($400)
8) Accessory belt tensioner ($300)
9) A shock or two ($1000)
10) Worn bushings on a few front suspension components ($1000)
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      05-10-2019, 10:56 AM   #5
mattc1176
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If looking for the go-karty fun I think you'll be fine w/ the 228i, moreso if it has the track handling pkg. I've owned a 235i and 240i, and seem to get a 228ix as a loaner every time so I've had a lot of time in each. While it's a little too slow for me the lighter weight makes it more fun to toss around.
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      05-10-2019, 06:47 PM   #6
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The N20 makes its max torque at 1250rpm, shouldn't be much different from a diesel. But if you want extra 80hp get the N55.
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      05-10-2019, 10:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Well what did you like and what can you afford? I had a 235i for 3 years and loved it. 228i that I drove handled a little better but lacked the power I wanted.
Driving the 550i made me realize how much I appreciate tight handling. I took for granted the agility of a smaller car. I don't think I'm searching for massive power, but more on acceleration and quickness. That's why I started exploring the 2 series. Ideally i'd like to be looking around $30k and under, but seeing the reviews and prices of 228i's in the $20k-$25k range has me rethinking what I need to spend.

Thanks for the reply.
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      05-10-2019, 10:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msej449 View Post
I moved from a 330d xDrive Touring to my current M235i Convertible - something of a contrast.

Yes, you will not get the torque of the big 6-cyl diesels that allows the auto to pretty much stay in 8th. when cruising, even with pretty steep hills. So if you do a lot of driving of this type, expect more gear changing. Ditto if you regularly carry a weight of passengers and baggage, or tow a trailer etc.

But in my case, and I suspect yours, it's only me our two of us in the car, and I am not doing long commutes any more. The M235i is so much more fun and engaging, and the convertible transforms a lot of what would otherwise be pretty boring journeys. Summing it up, the 330d was a great as a workhorse, and for long journeys, but the M235i has been much more enjoyable and fun. After 3 years, this is the first car in a long time that I plan not to change, but keep indefinitely.

Two caveats are that I do have an old hatchback workhorse for local journeys to the dump and supermarket, and the M235i does have a surprisingly small fuel tank - think about 300 miles range when full. Oh, and make sure you go for a model where the rear seats folds down (this was an option at one time on UK models) - the hatch through from the trunk isn't that big but it does make a big difference to what you can carry.
Yes,
I'm hoping the contrast isn't something I'm going to regret or be disappointed with.

My situation is the same as yours either solo driving, or on occasion 1 other passenger. I used to make a lot of road trips 500+ miles, (Northern California to Southern California and back) but this has slowed down as of recent. Highway cruising was great, as well as the fuel economy. No Stops needed, and plenty of open road conquer. Was always a fun drive for me.

I really appreciate your comments on the M235i because fun is what I'm currently searching for.

Thanks for the reply.
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      05-10-2019, 10:27 PM   #9
jLaFlare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
The N55 in M235 is quite torquey, especially with the 8 speed automatic which is light years ahead of what you have now in your 330D. However, it won't match the initial low end grunt of a 3.0TD, but after 4,000rpms, the N55 will completely run away from the 3.0TD. There will be a lot more shifting in the M235 as well, but that's just the nature of gasoline vs diesel. Gas mileage won't be quite the same, but it won't be terrible. I get around 22mpg in mostly city driving and getting on it often and 28-30mpg on the highway. I have a 6MT which gets lower mpgs. The 8AT will probably get an extra couple of mpgs in both scenarios.

The chassis of the M235 will feel far more lively than the 330D, especially when you hustle it. In 5/10 or less driving, the M235 feels pretty good, though many note it's a bit soft and rolls a bit. However, when you really push the car, it really does come alive and everything starts coming together to make it a true street-focused sports car. It's small size and strong power make it far easier to put the car where you want it.

The M235 and the N55 have proven to be quite reliable by BMW standards, but buying one out of warranty and with 57K miles means you could be in for some maintenance and repairs quite soon. If you don't service your cars yourself, the costs could be somewhat high. Here's what you could be looking at to fix within the first 1 to 2 years of ownership, many of these things being quite simple for a DIYer but quite pricey at a shop (shop prices listed):

1) New front and rear rotors and pads ($2000)
2) Brake fluid and coolant flush ($400)
3) New water pump and t-stat ($1000)
4) Valve cover and oil filter gasket ($1500)
5) Coolant lines ($300)
6) Spark plugs ($500)
7) A coilpack or two ($400)
8) Accessory belt tensioner ($300)
9) A shock or two ($1000)
10) Worn bushings on a few front suspension components ($1000)
Thank your for this insight. I've been questioning the mileage and lack of warranty on the M235i I mentioned, just really like the price and Black Ext Coral Red Int combination.

Your description makes me feel comfortable in the experience that will be delivered from the M235i. You're right about the ZF 8speed in comparison to my current transmission.

I've been reading about the late N55 and feel alright about the reliability side, but yes maintenance is still an honest concern. Fortunately, I have a tech friend from the dealership I worked at that has gone on to opening his own shop. I've discussed my next car with him, and he is suggesting the N55 as the natural next choice under my circumstances. Based on your list of costs, I feel like I should run though his prices to me beforehand to make the smart decision.

Your response was great. Thank you.
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      05-10-2019, 10:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalMK View Post
The N20 makes its max torque at 1250rpm, shouldn't be much different from a diesel. But if you want extra 80hp get the N55.
I'm in California so I think I'll be getting the N26 Variant? But Max torque at 1250 seems just right for me coming for the diesel. My redline is at 5000, so i'll have to learn the differences.

I haven't been into mods, but I see there is the 1 dinan tune for the N26. I'm not sure if that would be something i'd be interested in or not.

The M240 is a lot of fun though, so thanks for your comparison.
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      05-10-2019, 10:49 PM   #11
jLaFlare
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I want to thank everyone who has posted this far. Lots of valuable info and perspectives that I will be taking into consideration. The main reason I came here before I test drive is because all of the M235i's are about 3 hours away. My local dealer is all out of 2 series, and the next closest (1 Hour Away) only has the 228i. Ideally i'd like to drive both vehicles back to back and make my decision off of that.

With what I've heard so far, I might just drive the 228i this weekend, and see if i'm still hungering for more. There are better lower mileage/CPO options for M235i's, but I just saw the low price and coral red interior and got excited.

I'm in California and the M235i in question is listed online at $27,500. Since I was just working with another dealership on the 550i I figured I might be able to use some leverage and haggle the price. Does this seem like a decent price? 1 lease owner very clean car, 9 maintenance records, looks like brake fluids were flushed at 57k miles 2 new tires mounted.
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      05-11-2019, 12:32 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalMK View Post
The N20 makes its max torque at 1250rpm, shouldn't be much different from a diesel. But if you want extra 80hp get the N55.
Yes, but with throttle fully mashed and in a high load gear like 5th and beyond. The max torque ratings at low rpm of gasoline turbos these days is quite misleading to say the least.
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      05-11-2019, 01:24 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jLaFlare View Post
Thank your for this insight. I've been questioning the mileage and lack of warranty on the M235i I mentioned, just really like the price and Black Ext Coral Red Int combination.

Your description makes me feel comfortable in the experience that will be delivered from the M235i. You're right about the ZF 8speed in comparison to my current transmission.

I've been reading about the late N55 and feel alright about the reliability side, but yes maintenance is still an honest concern. Fortunately, I have a tech friend from the dealership I worked at that has gone on to opening his own shop. I've discussed my next car with him, and he is suggesting the N55 as the natural next choice under my circumstances. Based on your list of costs, I feel like I should run though his prices to me beforehand to make the smart decision.

Your response was great. Thank you.
I just watched a video on the coilpacks and spark plugs and looks pretty standard from a DIY perspective.

I guess for me it would just be knowing when and what replacement suggestions outside of genuine bmw or oem from FCP or similar.
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      05-11-2019, 09:24 AM   #14
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The only way to know is drive them both and decide what's best for you. I went with the 228i because it has plenty of power for me. And was able to get one CPO (warranty and maintenance) practically brand new (4k miles), for about the same price as a 235i without warranty or maintenance. I'm a bit scared of buying a used m235i/m240i because a large amount of them get modded and you dont know what you are really getting. I would hate it have a issue and have the dealership say, nope we won't touch that thing.

There are pros and cons to everything... I can easily go buy a brand new M2 competition right now, that doesn't mean I should. Cons outweigh the pros right now.
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      05-11-2019, 05:55 PM   #15
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What is the right 2?

Hello All,

Currently drive a 335d/6AT and also a 235i/6MT.
The 2's come in different flavors, from base to mild, then the M2.
Having driven briefly the M2, 330i(B48/8AT), 240i/8AT; 120d.

The 8AT has evolved into a worthy opponent of the 6MT and 7DCT.
Engine wise the B48/B58 are quite nice, and improved over prior N26,N55 offered.

It all depends on the flavor your are aiming for, and amount of DIY you are willing or want to do or pay to do, or just aiming for turn-key hassle free ownership. Ideally many would go for the M2, but depends on budget/needs, some other options may be more suitable (ie less flashy, more civil for daily use, MPG, etc)

IMO, an ideal daily 2 series could be:
230i B48 is plenty good
(big fan of torque, too; so the 228i 6MT would be TBD)

M-sport appearance package

8-speed auto w/ paddles
(though I am 6M/T fan)
(AT has a higher numerical axle)
(and lower gearing of AT version means better acceleration)

Track handling package *optional*
THP gets the 235i brakes, adap suspension, steering rack,
If not opting for the THP, then the M2 has a BMW M Performance 2-Way Adjustable Coilover Kit, which in theory may fit a 2 series..that should take care of below expectations handling (front spindle strut attachment may be showstopper)

OK, seems my comments are performance biased, for creature comforts, the HK audio is nice, the BMW APPS,

For reference, likes and dislikes, of 335d, 235i,

335d +
* Torque on tap
* MPG 29-30 long term average
* HK audio
* effortless highway cruising
335d -
* many emissions OBD2 issues - luckily can do some DYI.
* floaty sports suspension - fixed by installing BMW Performance susp.
* base sports brakes...pads not up to task of cars potential (ie speed)

235i +
* Nice, wide, smooth torque band.
* nimble package and size
* Good overall compromise of suspension for daily/weekend
235i -
* Adap susp range : not enough soft, and not enough sport..
* base audio sound quality, no phone integration w base system..

Hope this helps in your search and decision making to find a well rounded daily,
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Last edited by m3driver999; 05-11-2019 at 06:07 PM.. Reason: add content
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      05-12-2019, 01:50 PM   #16
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Test Drive Update

Yesterday I drove a 228i and then a M235i. Turns out I like the M235i a lot, just as I expected. I did enjoy the ride in the 228i but M-Sport Package wasn't equipped on any of the cars they had.

As for the M235i I drove:
Exterior Color : Black Sapphire
Interior Color : CORAL RED
Mileage : 57,239 Miles

They moved the price from $27,500 to $27,000 and then tried to close me for around a $450/mth. They didn't show me the deal yet for $450 so I'm not sure on what they were structuring. I couldn't get the BMW 1.99% rate because it wasn't A CPO so they were seeing what they could do.

I was planning on driving an F30 335i at another dealership, but traffic prevented me from getting there in time.

Anyone have any thoughts on that price for 57k miles
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      05-12-2019, 02:53 PM   #17
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m3driver999
Thanks for the ownership perspective.

I completely forgot about the HK Top Hifi system, and have been taking it for granted. I used to be into diy car audio, and still have some of my JL left over from my last car, but with the Top Hifi I've been pleasantly content.

What is the speaker setup like on the base M235i?
I don't think the M235i that I looked at had the Enhanced USB & Bluetooth Plus Smartphone Integration option. The client adviser mentioned I could stream spotify/pandora etc. I'm hoping that is true.

Looking at the configuration I see there aren't many packages or options. I think the vehicle I was looking at had the Technology Package.

I'm thinking the M235i is where I want to go, so thank you for your direct comparison and experience between the 335d and M235i
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      05-12-2019, 10:26 PM   #18
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2er

Hello,

My 2 has little tech content, the base screen and base audio (no navi) and the streaming is via aux jack to phone... :-( ...one item the 335d does have and it is a nice perk.

Believe needs 2 or 3 option codes for the full connected experience.. i.e.
S6CPA Preparation Apple CarPlay
S6NHA Hands-free with USB interface

Believe the HK audio has more speakers, and better speakers.
Some forum threads have commented on changing speakers, or adding the door mirror ones....sound wise.. I turned off the artificial sound (ASD) and added the M performance muffler.

One thing that I remembered later, though could throw a wrench into your search, there is a 340i w/ a 6MT and it has the B58 and available handling package,2016; Later the M-sport bumpers became standard and base car price went up as well... sort of a 4-door 235i with bigger form factor..
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Last edited by m3driver999; 05-12-2019 at 10:27 PM.. Reason: typo
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      05-13-2019, 12:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3driver999 View Post
Hello,

My 2 has little tech content, the base screen and base audio (no navi) and the streaming is via aux jack to phone... :-( ...one item the 335d does have and it is a nice perk.

Believe needs 2 or 3 option codes for the full connected experience.. i.e.
S6CPA Preparation Apple CarPlay
S6NHA Hands-free with USB interface

Believe the HK audio has more speakers, and better speakers.
Some forum threads have commented on changing speakers, or adding the door mirror ones....sound wise.. I turned off the artificial sound (ASD) and added the M performance muffler.

One thing that I remembered later, though could throw a wrench into your search, there is a 340i w/ a 6MT and it has the B58 and available handling package,2016; Later the M-sport bumpers became standard and base car price went up as well... sort of a 4-door 235i with bigger form factor..
On this build sheet by vin, I see the S6NHA, but no S6CPA.

S676A HiFi Speaker System is the listed audio option. I've been seeing this is 6 speakers? If that's the case, I'll be missing the 16 speakers in the 335, but i've seen amp upgrade posts, and the 6 speakers includes the under-seats I hope.

And yes, the 340i has been a wrench, but I haven't found one I'd jump on yet. The first one I drove was a press car with all the M-Performance parts, I've been in love ever since.

Thanks again for all the input.
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      05-28-2019, 03:59 PM   #20
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I'm not sure if anyone was curious about my decision, but I decided on the M235i this weekend. Found a cheaper lower mileage vehicle in Southern California for a good price with everything I was looking for.

I've driven the car over 700miles in the last 3 days, and I know I made the right choice.

Thank you to all that contributed.
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