[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Common thread is VW/Audi

Right....lessons learned the hard way for us, and words for the wise to learn from!

[Liandri]

2005 Subaru legacy gt 2.5 turbo. Owned it for the last 5 years, just sold it a month ago. It needed pretty much everything under the hood and I stupidly shoveled parts at it. Full engine rebuild w/new block, trans synchros, driveshaft boots, power steering rack and pump, radiator, condenser, idler pulley and tensioner, pcv valve, clutch, trans snout sleeve kit, turbo chra...the list goes on. And despite almost weekly waxes the paint crowsfooted and deteriorated so badly it could have used a paint job. I have a couple friends with 2015+ wrxs, and I can say I will definitely never buy a Subaru product again. I used to think they were cool cars but now I see how cheap they're built. The m235i is soooo much better, and I've been so impressed by BMWs attention to detail that I probably won't switch from the brand going forward. Tough to say that for certain, of course 😁

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by Liandri

2005 Subaru legacy gt 2.5 turbo. Owned it for the last 5 years, just sold it a month ago. It needed pretty much everything under the hood and I stupidly shoveled parts at it. Full engine rebuild w/new block, trans synchros, driveshaft boots, power steering rack and pump, radiator, condenser, idler pulley and tensioner, pcv valve, clutch, trans snout sleeve kit, turbo chra...the list goes on. And despite almost weekly waxes the paint crowsfooted and deteriorated so badly it could have used a paint job. I have a couple friends with 2015+ wrxs, and I can say I will definitely never buy a Subaru product again. I used to think they were cool cars but now I see how cheap they're built. The m235i is soooo much better, and I've been so impressed by BMWs attention to detail that I probably won't switch from the brand going forward. Tough to say that for certain, of course 😁

Originally Posted by Liandri

2005 Subaru legacy gt 2.5 turbo. Owned it for the last 5 years, just sold it a month ago. It needed pretty much everything under the hood and I stupidly shoveled parts at it. Full engine rebuild w/new block, trans synchros, driveshaft boots, power steering rack and pump, radiator, condenser, idler pulley and tensioner, pcv valve, clutch, trans snout sleeve kit, turbo chra...the list goes on. And despite almost weekly waxes the paint crowsfooted and deteriorated so badly it could have used a paint job. I have a couple friends with 2015+ wrxs, and I can say I will definitely never buy a Subaru product again. I used to think they were cool cars but now I see how cheap they're built. The m235i is soooo much better, and I've been so impressed by BMWs attention to detail that I probably won't switch from the brand going forward. Tough to say that for certain, of course 😁

Subaru's are so overrated and are only popular because they are Japanese but have the Volvo ruggedness vibe with a different character than a typical Japanese Honda or Toyota but are nowhere near as well built.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Subaru's are so overrated and are only popular because they are Japanese but have the Volvo ruggedness vibe with a different character than a typical Japanese Honda or Toyota but are nowhere near as well built.

This. Subaru does not deserve all its love, they are the Japanese Volvo but at least Volvo now makes compelling cars. Subaru had AWD before everyone else but I feel like that is pretty much it. Like you said, they've never stacked up to Honda or Toyota. I feel like Mazda is more deserving of the love Subaru gets.

[jmeywvu]

2009 Audi A4 Quattro 2.0T. Ate a quart of oil every 400 miles from the day I bought it and all that 0w40 add$ up. Required new pistons and rings at only 60k miles. Audi ultimately paid for everything as the issue was the subject of a successful class action lawsuit, but boy, was it a royal pain getting the work done and getting reimbursed.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by jstein55

This. Subaru does not deserve all its love, they are the Japanese Volvo but at least Volvo now makes compelling cars. Subaru had AWD before everyone else but I feel like that is pretty much it. Like you said, they've never stacked up to Honda or Toyota. I feel like Mazda is more deserving of the love Subaru gets.

Originally Posted by jstein55

This. Subaru does not deserve all its love, they are the Japanese Volvo but at least Volvo now makes compelling cars. Subaru had AWD before everyone else but I feel like that is pretty much it. Like you said, they've never stacked up to Honda or Toyota. I feel like Mazda is more deserving of the love Subaru gets.

I love Volvo's, my wife has one and it's so well built. Details like the brake lines are copper nickel and even with salt and snow the car has zero rust. The Honda's I owned were all very good mechanically but they rusted.
The resale price on Subaru's is way to high IMO.

[MarcoZandrini]

1969 Austin Healey Sprite, basically a re-badged MG Midget. Bought it used with "50,000" miles on the clock. Master cylinder went out after 3 days. Dealer replaced it for free. Had to overhaul the brakes as the previous owner(s) never changed the brake fluid. Had to replace 2 tires as 2 of the originals developed a bulge in the sidewall. Broke a half shaft when gently taking off from a stop. Replaced the half shaft and sold it. Bought my first bimmer, a 1971 2002 with about 40k miles on the clock. Needed rotors, natch. Had to sell it when the girl I married failed to learn how to drive a stick.

[morphomeman]

The SLOWEST car I ever owned was a 1976 Golf/Rabbit diesel.
Going uphill on I90 in the Adirondacks in upstate New York, you had to drop into 3rd gear. It would simply not go uphill in 4th for more than a couple of minutes.
The car was otherwise quite reliable and got amazing mileage for its time.

[BimBimM2]

Oh boy...

'99 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX MT back in 2003 (4 or 5th year owning the car). In one year the stupid thing had the clutch master cylinder go out, the turbo seal blew, and then the infamous out-of-spec crankshaft issue struck which ended up with the 4G63T getting replaced. All of these were pretty documented issues, and were something ever DSM owner was aware of.

I bought the car brand new, it was LOVELY to track and all these issues popped up in the year following warranty expiration.

God I hated and loved the car at the same time.

I also owned a B5 S4 at the time. That's the car I learnt to "work on" haha I sold it before it started giving me trouble. The guy who bought it had the timing belt broke in 3 months (or so I heard as per his frantic phone calls). I still doubt it was the timing chain but the chain guides, these cars had some issues in that dept. He was a younger guy and I knew the way he drove out of my parking lot that he will be in trouble with the S4. He had it chipped the next day, had new turbos in the next month, and then "something blew" the month after.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by BimBimM2

Oh boy...

'99 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX MT back in 2003 (4 or 5th year owning the car). In one year the stupid thing had the clutch master cylinder go out, the turbo seal blew, and then the infamous out-of-spec crankshaft issue struck which ended up with the 4G63T getting replaced. All of these were pretty documented issues, and were something ever DSM owner was aware of.

I bought the car brand new, it was LOVELY to track and all these issues popped up in the year following warranty expiration.

God I hated and loved the car at the same time.

When I was a kid, I bought a 1988 Celica All-Trac, while a good friend bought a 2nd gen Talon Tsi AWD. Both were used as this was maybe 2004 or so. The cars were very similar on paper, transverse, AWD turbocharged 4-bangers with around 200 hp.

Driving the cars back to back was incredibly enlightening. The first thing I noticed was that the Talon handled about a million times better than the Celica. Besides having stiffer suspension with much better body control, the steering was great, with lots of feedback (almost none in the celica) with good heft (the celica was light as a feather, typical Camry feel.)

However, the Celica actually felt faster in a straight line, with more lag and then more going on once the turbo hit. That surprised us as we both agreed it was noticeable. The other big difference was that the Talon pretty much disintegrated before my friend's eyes. Things were constantly just falling off of that car. The Celica was built like a friggin tank. Really interesting experience.

I think honestly the Talon was a much better car to drive, but the Celica was the one to own.

[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by Moflow

When I was a kid, I bought a 1988 Celica All-Trac, while a good friend bought a 2nd gen Talon Tsi AWD. Both were used as this was maybe 2004 or so. The cars were very similar on paper, transverse, AWD turbocharged 4-bangers with around 200 hp.

Driving the cars back to back was incredibly enlightening. The first thing I noticed was that the Talon handled about a million times better than the Celica. Besides having stiffer suspension with much better body control, the steering was great, with lots of feedback (almost none in the celica) with good heft (the celica was light as a feather, typical Camry feel.)

However, the Celica actually felt faster in a straight line, with more lag and then more going on once the turbo hit. That surprised us as we both agreed it was noticeable. The other big difference was that the Talon pretty much disintegrated before my friend's eyes. Things were constantly just falling off of that car. The Celica was built like a friggin tank. Really interesting experience.

I think honestly the Talon was a much better car to drive, but the Celica was the one to own.

Oh god yes! This is exactly the kind of post I wanted to read such sweet nostalgia!

Yes I do remember the Celica all-trac! I owned it at one point, but the RHD version (GT-Four as it was called) when I lived in Kenya. In fact it was the second car I had ever owned. Toyota Starlet (X Limited 4WD) followed by a Celica All-trac, and then GSX and the B5 S4 when I moved to the States (I think I was 18 at that point? So yes, definitely fitting the stereotype of "those damn kids with their DSMs" hah!)

God that all-trac was so so sweet. The quirk that I noticed about the all-trac was that it drove very similar to the A4. It felt heavy, but not cumbersome... yet I never felt confidence in its ability to tackle a corner relative to the Startlet I drove before it. Granted I was 14 when I got the Starlet and mostly took it out on tough Kenyan terrain, yet there was something amazing about the lightness of the car that despite the 4WD made it far more responsive than the GT4 (all-trac as you know it). Don't get me wrong, I loved the All-trac! It just was a heavy as hell car haha. However the car which I absolutely LOVED during my Starlet days was my mother's MR2 3S GTE (same engine as the GT4/All-trac)! Nothing came close to that sweet RWD god I miss that car.

I absolutely agree with your assessment on the 2G DSM; those cars were monsters and yet were shoddily built. It wasn't that the DSMs were fragile, they just were built with shitty quality control. For instance, the 7-bolt crank issue which struck me was due to the crankshaft built out of spec and eventually it would bore its way out of the engine. Absolutely unacceptable and frankly that was the era that sunk Mitsubishi.

As I type the above I will tell you that I never regretted the DSM. The fun I had with the car and the friends I made during my freshman college days in the DSM community led to such great times! I truly wish I had never sold it. In fact I'd buy it back today if I can find whatever is left of it. I owned many, many good cars after the DSM. I bought an S2000 right after it and have had lovely cars after it... yet, there is a special place in my heart for that beautiful royal green DSM; the weird "bump", the early morning "tick" ominously being the harbinger of the 7-bolt 4G63T implosion, the melting gaskets haha. I loved all those quirks. And I miss them.

Edit: oh and I think you will enjoy this article

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/art...a-all-trac/amp

[DistantTea]

I leased a 2001 Audi S4 Avant that melted one of it's catalytic converters 30 feet from the dealership when I was taking it home for the first time. It went back in for two airbag light issues, a seatbelt issue, and then eventually another catalytic converter fused shut. The car spent 28 days in the shop for it's first three months of life. I tried to get it returned under the lemon law but Audi and the dealership pulled out all the stops to fight it. I ended up selling it to some dude in Seattle before my lease was up.

Easily the worst new car I ever "owned".

[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by DistantTea

I leased a 2001 Audi S4 Avant that melted one of it's catalytic converters 30 feet from the dealership when I was taking it home for the first time. It went back in for two airbag light issues, a seatbelt issue, and then eventually another catalytic converter fused shut. The car spent 28 days in the shop for it's first three months of life. I tried to get it returned under the lemon law but Audi and the dealership pulled out all the stops to fight it. I ended up selling it to some dude in Seattle before my lease was up.

Easily the worst new car I ever "owned".

Typical B5 S4 haha! Mine didn't give me any trouble like that though... when I sold it, the dude who bought ended up waking up all the gremlins. The car needed an engine replacement within the first two months. Although he was aggressively modifying it as well.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by BimBimM2

Oh boy...

'99 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX MT back in 2003 (4 or 5th year owning the car). In one year the stupid thing had the clutch master cylinder go out, the turbo seal blew, and then the infamous out-of-spec crankshaft issue struck which ended up with the 4G63T getting replaced. All of these were pretty documented issues, and were something ever DSM owner was aware of.

Owned a 98 model in 2002 and had a similar experience with the out of spec crankshaft issue.

Beating 5.0 mustangs who thought it was a slow ass eclipse was worth all the hours working retail to fix it.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by BimBimM2

Oh god yes! This is exactly the kind of post I wanted to read such sweet nostalgia!

Yes I do remember the Celica all-trac! I owned it at one point, but the RHD version (GT-Four as it was called) when I lived in Kenya. In fact it was the second car I had ever owned. Toyota Starlet (X Limited 4WD) followed by a Celica All-trac, and then GSX and the B5 S4 when I moved to the States (I think I was 18 at that point? So yes, definitely fitting the stereotype of "those damn kids with their DSMs" hah!)

God that all-trac was so so sweet. The quirk that I noticed about the all-trac was that it drove very similar to the A4. It felt heavy, but not cumbersome... yet I never felt confidence in its ability to tackle a corner relative to the Startlet I drove before it. Granted I was 14 when I got the Starlet and mostly took it out on tough Kenyan terrain, yet there was something amazing about the lightness of the car that despite the 4WD made it far more responsive than the GT4 (all-trac as you know it). Don't get me wrong, I loved the All-trac! It just was a heavy as hell car haha. However the car which I absolutely LOVED during my Starlet days was my mother's MR2 3S GTE (same engine as the GT4/All-trac)! Nothing came close to that sweet RWD god I miss that car.

I absolutely agree with your assessment on the 2G DSM; those cars were monsters and yet were shoddily built. It wasn't that the DSMs were fragile, they just were built with shitty quality control. For instance, the 7-bolt crank issue which struck me was due to the crankshaft built out of spec and eventually it would bore its way out of the engine. Absolutely unacceptable and frankly that was the era that sunk Mitsubishi.

As I type the above I will tell you that I never regretted the DSM. The fun I had with the car and the friends I made during my freshman college days in the DSM community led to such great times! I truly wish I had never sold it. In fact I'd buy it back today if I can find whatever is left of it. I owned many, many good cars after the DSM. I bought an S2000 right after it and have had lovely cars after it... yet, there is a special place in my heart for that beautiful royal green DSM; the weird "bump", the early morning "tick" ominously being the harbinger of the 7-bolt 4G63T implosion, the melting gaskets haha. I loved all those quirks. And I miss them.

Edit: oh and I think you will enjoy this article

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/art...a-all-trac/amp

Oh man that's awesome! You have had some pretty damn legendary cars in your day! I agree with you on the weight of the GT4/All-trac, they definitely felt heavy and the weight was kind of exacerbated by the soft suspension, so the cars would roll really badly by modern standards.

That said, the 50/50 torque split was for real! I had the pleasure of driving that car in the snow and if you floored it going sideways, both ends would slide at the exact same rate. The one I had was also weirdly luxurious with leather seating, a sunroof and even power side bolstering in the seats!

I would've loved to have experienced the Starlet, I think the only thing we had stateside that's kind of similar would be the Mazda 323 GTX, a smaller sub 3K lb AWD turbo hatchback. But those are maybe even rarer than the All-trac. Knowing what I know now, i bet the lighter weight and shorter wheelbase on the Starlet made a night and day difference compared to the GT4.

I think at the time I owned the Celica, I didn't have a real clear understanding of what a sports car/performance car was supposed to feel like. I really have to credit my friend's old Talon for being the first car to open my eyes up in that way. I drove it and it was like a lightbulb went off in my head. Even though i've never owned one, those 2g DSMs (and 1g to a lesser extent) will always have a special place in my heart.

And yes, thanks for posting the article! I did indeed enjoy reading it!

[Dylan86]

Worst car ever was a mid 90's Mazda Protege I had as a DDer back when I was into building drag cars as a teenager. Two head gaskets in less than a year, always no start issues, thing was a pile. It was a cheap buy, and this was all to be expected but WOW that car was a total POS @ 150k kms, which is considered "low" for imports, here..

Luckily since buying new'ish cars I've been ahead on maintenance enough to not get stuck or stranded. From 01+ VW GTI's/GLI's, 2012/2015 GTI were all solid runners, all modified too. Had a few Audi's in the mix, all 01+ and never owned them long enough to encounter the struggles of Audi ownership, they were pretty good all'rounders and tanks in the snow (in a good way).

So far the BMW is just as (if not better than) my previous vehicles, since I've put more mileage on it than any prior new car I've had. Fingers crossed for a smooth long-term ownership. FWIW, this 2er has been beat to hell since 9k kms, and at 75k kms it still loves it!

D

[High Desert]

1982 Jaguar XJS. Basically, an oversized V-12 Camaro. On the beginning of a road trip, had to have it towed back to Houston from Texarkana, Tx. After a $600 towing charge and 5 hours in a wrecker, the fault was a Lucas ground strap that broke off, flipped over, and grounded the module that controlled the "fuel flow." You also had to flip a switch when you reached an altitude over 3,000 ft. or it would not run. Just a few highlights of constant problems.

[da jemster]

1984 Pontiac Fiero!

[morriscat]

The worst car I ever owned was a '79 Buick Regal. Gold, white vinyl top, alloy rims. I paid $500 for it. The previous owner (a friend of my fathers) had taken the 5.0 it had come with out and replaced it with a 7 point something from a Suburban and then overbored THAT, so it had something ludicrous like 500 cubic inches, with a three-speed automatic from a truck to handle the torque.

It had so MUCH torque in fact that it was truly terrifying on icy pavement. You could start it up and put it in gear with the brake pedal all the way to the floor and the back tires would still start spinning. I could make the thing do a 360 without having moved an inch from where I started. It would just slowly rotate in place.

Great fun in the summer, terrifying in the winter. I sold it before the second winter came along to someone I didn't like very much. Never did find out what happened to him.

[Rayscott]

I bought a 1976 Pontiac Grand Prix. It had t-tops which leaked like a sieve when it rained and snow came in when it snowed hard. Took it to the dealer and they said it needed to be sealed. When I picked it up there was black gook all over the tan seats, dash steering wheel and carpet. I found the Service manager and told him this work looks like shit. He came out and said they would clean it up. It was not great but I just wanted to get the f--k away from him before I lost it. I cleaned it up better the next day. The dealers owner called me and apologized. I said, do you know why people are buying Japanese cars like Honda which were just coming out. He said, no. I said it's because GM quality sucks and the Japs are going to kick your ass with the crap you are selling.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Rayscott

I bought a 1976 Pontiac Grand Prix. It had t-tops which leaked like a sieve when it rained and snow came in when it snowed hard. Took it to the dealer and they said it needed to be sealed. When I picked it up there was black gook all over the tan seats, dash steering wheel and carpet. I found the Service manager and told him this work looks like shit. He came out and said they would clean it up. It was not great but I just wanted to get the f--k away from him before I lost it. I cleaned it up better the next day. The dealers owner called me and apologized. I said, do you know why people are buying Japanese cars like Honda which were just coming out. He said, no. I said it's because GM quality sucks and the Japs are going to kick your ass with the crap you are selling.

I'm reminded of the 12-cylinder Jaguar XKE Series 3 I owned in the mid-'70s.

That model had numerous engineered-in "issues", as we say today. IOW, there were POS aspects to owning that fairly expensive motor vehicle. Further IOW, it was a British car of the day. Mind you, I am and have always been a fan of all things British. There are exceptions, of course, like the car I mentioned in the 2nd post of this thread.

With the E-Type the kicker, as always, was taking the car to a dealer so that the engineered-in problems could be fixed/repaired/whatever. Granted, I was younger then and didn't know any better, but given what the car was, I doubt there were many reliable options.

Try this on for size: in Amarillo, TX in 1976 the Jaguar dealer's labor rate was $12/hour. At that time, the rate was $21/hour in Boulder, CO. Ask me how I know. (My job allowed me to work in the 'Big A' during the week and spend my weekends in Boulder.)

Of course, neither dealer could fix the car's inherent problems, the principal one of which was the engine heat pouring off of the transmission tunnel into the cockpit. There were many other problems with that car, but that one was a major issue in a city that was very hot from April until November. In the winter, of course, it was a terrific flaw!

But you know what? That Jaguar, for all of its flaws, along with the fact that its GT qualities always outshone those flaws, was the one in which I spent the first fifty hours of time with the woman who has been my bride until this day.

So in a technical sense, that XKE was pretty p*ss-poor, yet its history in my personal life, and its GT qualities as an afternoon-two-states-away-hop car (a quality I continue to prize above all others, and one for which I judge our 2 Series cars to be among the best ever), makes the issue interestingly more complicated that it might otherwise be.

My own experience convinces me that the judgement as to which is the worst car or not the worst car is a remarkably complicated subject, and a very personal one as we've seen in this thread. I think that range of experiences and opinions is a significant part of what makes us car guys and gals enjoy interacting here – at least I hope so!

[Rocky58]

Originally Posted by dradernh

I'm reminded of the 12-cylinder Jaguar XKE Series 3 I owned in the mid-'70s.

That model had numerous engineered-in "issues", as we say today. IOW, there were POS aspects to owning that fairly expensive motor vehicle. Further IOW, it was a British car of the day. Mind you, I am and have always been a fan of all things British. There are exceptions, of course, like the car I mentioned in the 2nd post of this thread.

When I was a kid, I dreamed of having a racing green Jag. When I was about 18, I was walking up the street with my girlfriend and a guy wearing sunglasses who looked like James Bond went past us in a beautiful green Jag, rumbling like, well, a jaguar. I looked at her and said, I wish I could have that car. We kept walking only to see the guy standing by his car looking disgusted. There was a big pool of oil running out from under the car stuck in the middle of the street. I still kind of wanted one though.