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      11-15-2019, 08:09 AM   #89
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[QUOTE=Dinan_Engineering;25463456]Installation time is 1 hour. D440-0122 will work on the 2020 M240 xDrive. There were no powertrain changes from the 2019 to the 2020 MY. /QUOTE]

Thanks so much, that was the info. I needed!
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      11-15-2019, 04:52 PM   #90
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So basically, the B58 is the forgotten motor. Gotcha, DINAN. No plans or real information. Just phrases like "I would imagine." Ugh.

At least my stage one V1 is still working great and I'm happy with it, but would love a flash tune sometime before I hit 200,000 miles.
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      11-17-2019, 09:20 AM   #91
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I would also like to know the upgrade path to the Stage 2 flash. including dollar cost for a new install and cost to upgrade from the Stage 1.

I read that to get Stage 2, a Dinan CF intake is required.

As an aside, those of us that paid $1399 for the Stage 1 .v1 and had/have to get the .v2 which sells for $200 less that the .v1 ($1199). Will Dinan do anything to adjust for that loss when we upgrade to the Stage 2? I know there was no refund offered to those having to swap to the .v2 for CEL issues.
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      11-18-2019, 08:26 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleHeinz View Post
So basically, the B58 is the forgotten motor. Gotcha, DINAN. No plans or real information. Just phrases like "I would imagine." Ugh.

At least my stage one V1 is still working great and I'm happy with it, but would love a flash tune sometime before I hit 200,000 miles.
Would hardly say it is forgotten considering we own 2 B58 vehicles (the only engine we have multiple of) and they are being worked on at 2 separate R&D locations but I get the frustration. Its frustrating on my end as well when I get the same questions over and over again that I can't answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USA-RET View Post
I would also like to know the upgrade path to the Stage 2 flash. including dollar cost for a new install and cost to upgrade from the Stage 1.

I read that to get Stage 2, a Dinan CF intake is required.

As an aside, those of us that paid $1399 for the Stage 1 .v1 and had/have to get the .v2 which sells for $200 less that the .v1 ($1199). Will Dinan do anything to adjust for that loss when we upgrade to the Stage 2? I know there was no refund offered to those having to swap to the .v2 for CEL issues.
I would first get rid of referring to it as Stage 2. The historical way of doing Dinan tunes will be no longer going forward as it is being changed to a more universally accepted format. At most Dinan will have 3 stages. Stage 1 being for stock and lightly modified vehicles with bolt-ons (intake, exhaust, etc). Stage 2 would be typically be the big turbo stage. In some cases there may be an in between stage that takes advantage of a something else, such as a 2 stage intake or a fundamental change to charge cooling or something of that ilk which provides a big jump in power. Generally speaking though 2 stages is the max you will see going forward from Dinan. We would offer both warrantied and non-warrantied variants of each. The same goes for the piggyback side of things as we will still be offering both solutions.

So the flash that is coming would be considered a stage 1 and would not require any additional modifications. As I noted earlier I don't know what the upgrade path nor the price points would be since it hasn't been discussed for the platform but it should be similar to what exists currently for the S55. That is going to a warrantied version of flash from DINANTRONICS would have a minor upgrade fee whereas transferring over to a limited warranty variant would be a free switch.
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      11-18-2019, 12:16 PM   #93
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So the flash replaces the piggy back as stage 1?I'm glad I didn't buy the dinan intake since it's not necessary.
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      11-18-2019, 02:03 PM   #94
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But it does look great

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So the flash replaces the piggy back as stage 1?I'm glad I didn't buy the dinan intake since it's not necessary.
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      11-18-2019, 02:11 PM   #95
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So the flash replaces the piggy back as stage 1?I'm glad I didn't buy the dinan intake since it's not necessary.
No. Flash is not a replacement. We will be offering both the flash and the DINANTRONICS. Those that have DINANTRONICS now could upgrade/trade-in to flash if desired when that becomes a real product but DINANTRONICS in some flavor isn't going away.

While the intake may not be required it still has its own benefits. Also, while an intake probably won't got this route there is a fair chance there will be hard parts such as the heat exhanger on the S55 platform that will be necessary to achieve stated power gains (although still not technically required it would just result the vehicle going into limp mode / de-rating itself when not present).
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      11-18-2019, 02:40 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by WolfGTI View Post
But it does look great

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mehim View Post
So the flash replaces the piggy back as stage 1?I'm glad I didn't buy the dinan intake since it's not necessary.
So does 600$
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      11-18-2019, 02:47 PM   #97
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True - not sweating that.


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So does 600$
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      11-22-2019, 08:14 AM   #98
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So I went to the Dinan Website to look at he S55 tunes. There are two/three flash tunes shown. After reading the info on them, I came away with this understanding.


The $1800 Flash Tune

"+ Callibrated to work exclusively with pump gas (91 and 93 octane).
+ No required parts, install on a stock car and receive the full power gains"

There is an "HE" option for the same price that must include the separate purchase of a new heat exchanger $730.

"Dinan+ users can upgrade to the Dinan +HE variant at no charge for more power while retaining the Dinan factory matching warranty provided a Heat Exchanger is purchased and installed as well. For those that want even more power you can opt to switch to the full Stage 1 tunes, taking advantage of more aggressive mapping geared for race fuels, at no additional cost. Switching to these mappings however will immediately cease any factory matching warranty obligation. For all of these scenarios, labor and/or install dealer fees still apply. "

The $900 flash tune comes with octane maps. At the time of the flash, you choose the Octane you will use in the car

"We recommend loading the octane mapping that is most commonly used for the vehicle (91, 93 or E85 most likely) and only do a map change for special occurences such as a track day."

"if you wish to use a different octane then what is initially loaded it would require a trip to your authorized Dinan dealer for a reflash. Labor / install charges to perform this service would be at the discretion of the dealer."

Special Note: Dinan Heat Exchanger (D780-0001A) or equivalent is recommended when running ANY of the stage 1 maps. Without the heat exchanger installed the vehicle will tend to heat soak / derate under any meaningful load. Advertised gains as a result will not be able to be achieved.



So, if this is the same path we can expect for the B58, I have the following questions.

The Special Note does not seem to jibe with the no required parts under the $1800 tune .

Am I to assume that the Stage 1 (91-93 octane) will lose power when the engine warms?

I always run 93 octane Top Tier fuel in my car, but in the event of an emergency where I have to put some 87 into the car to get home, what damage can occur if one drives the car sensibly? CEL's, Limp mode?

On the Dinan Website:

I already own a DINANTRONICS Elite kit for the S55 engine, can I switch to the flash?
Yes, you can trade in your existing DINANTRONICS kit and qualify for a warrantied tune (balance of the factory matching 4yr/50 k warranty) upgrade for only $149.95. If you are already out of warranty or simply want more power you can opt to switch to the full Stage 1 options (no factory matching warranty) without any associated upgrade fee. Pricing listed is dependent on trade-in of registered, first-hand units. Used, second-hand units do not qualify.

The above indicates (if it apples to the B58) that whether you have .v1 or a .v2 and want to maintain factory warranty, everyone pays $150. If you are out of warranty or wish to not have the warranty coverage the conversion is free.

I also understand from reading that at any time the ECU can be re-flashed by the dealership back to "stock" for whatever fee they charge.

My overall takeaway of the above flash options if the same holds true for the B58, is mixed. Especially for those that bought the .v1 and had to go to the .v2 due to CEL's. Paying $149 to keep coverage is fine for the .v2 buyer but for the .v1 buyers that had to exchange for the .v2 costing $200 less, it's not such a good deal.

Not sure what others think or what I may have misunderstood.
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      11-22-2019, 09:48 AM   #99
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If anyone needs a v1 let me know. Got one from a member and never installed it
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      11-22-2019, 11:24 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USA-RET View Post
So, if this is the same path we can expect for the B58, I have the following questions.

The Special Note does not seem to jibe with the no required parts under the $1800 tune .

Am I to assume that the Stage 1 (91-93 octane) will lose power when the engine warms?

I always run 93 octane Top Tier fuel in my car, but in the event of an emergency where I have to put some 87 into the car to get home, what damage can occur if one drives the car sensibly? CEL's, Limp mode?

On the Dinan Website:

I already own a DINANTRONICS Elite kit for the S55 engine, can I switch to the flash?
Yes, you can trade in your existing DINANTRONICS kit and qualify for a warrantied tune (balance of the factory matching 4yr/50 k warranty) upgrade for only $149.95. If you are already out of warranty or simply want more power you can opt to switch to the full Stage 1 options (no factory matching warranty) without any associated upgrade fee. Pricing listed is dependent on trade-in of registered, first-hand units. Used, second-hand units do not qualify.

The above indicates (if it apples to the B58) that whether you have .v1 or a .v2 and want to maintain factory warranty, everyone pays $150. If you are out of warranty or wish to not have the warranty coverage the conversion is free.

I also understand from reading that at any time the ECU can be re-flashed by the dealership back to "stock" for whatever fee they charge.

My overall takeaway of the above flash options if the same holds true for the B58, is mixed. Especially for those that bought the .v1 and had to go to the .v2 due to CEL's. Paying $149 to keep coverage is fine for the .v2 buyer but for the .v1 buyers that had to exchange for the .v2 costing $200 less, it's not such a good deal.

Not sure what others think or what I may have misunderstood.
There are a lot of assumptions in this which is very dangerous. Especially on a forum where speculation and conspiracy theories run rampant. =) Let's just first note that while the S55 program is probably a good starting point for what to expect for future flash releases it is not the end all, be all since all engines/platforms will be different and have different capabilities/thresholds.

To attempt to clarify your questions though.

1.) The special note of no hard parts required on the $1800 tune is still factual. You are lumping 2 different tunes into one in that statement. Dinan + requires no additional hard parts. Dinan +HE requires the heat exchanger. They are the same price but Dinan + has a lower power output as we found that above that power output the car de-rates itself in order to protect itself. When the Heat Exchanger is included that problem goes away and you can get more power. That said if you get the Dinan+ tune and in the future wish to get more power you can upgrade to the +HE (with heat exchanger) or the Stage 1 at no charge from Dinan (dealer labor charges would still apply). Chances are this requirement will not be needed on the B58 so there will be only 1 Dinan + (warrantied) file vs. the 2 on the S55.

2.) Am I to assume that the Stage 1 (91-93 octane) will lose power when the engine warms? If their is no heat exchanger present on Stage 1 (regardless of octane) than after repeated hard pulls or long spirited driving there is definitely the possibility of the engine de-rating itself as a self preservation tactic and thus reducing power. Again, this is an S55 specific trait and will most liekyl not be applicable to the B58.

3.) If you put lower quality gasoline in the car then 91/93 the car just will produce less power. No other side effects would occur unless you were running and race gas or E85 octane mapping and then put 87 in there. Then you have different issues.

4.) Pricing I won't comment on as I have stated before it has not been discussed for the B58 platform. Applying arguments to unknown variables is a disservice to everyone as it just muddies the waters and creates more speculation.
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      11-22-2019, 12:15 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
There are a lot of assumptions in this which is very dangerous. Especially on a forum where speculation and conspiracy theories run rampant. =) Let's just first note that while the S55 program is probably a good starting point for what to expect for future flash releases it is not the end all, be all since all engines/platforms will be different and have different capabilities/thresholds.

To attempt to clarify your questions though.

1.) The special note of no hard parts required on the $1800 tune is still factual. You are lumping 2 different tunes into one in that statement. Dinan + requires no additional hard parts. Dinan +HE requires the heat exchanger. They are the same price but Dinan + has a lower power output as we found that above that power output the car de-rates itself in order to protect itself. When the Heat Exchanger is included that problem goes away and you can get more power. That said if you get the Dinan+ tune and in the future wish to get more power you can upgrade to the +HE (with heat exchanger) or the Stage 1 at no charge from Dinan (dealer labor charges would still apply). Chances are this requirement will not be needed on the B58 so there will be only 1 Dinan + (warrantied) file vs. the 2 on the S55.

2.) Am I to assume that the Stage 1 (91-93 octane) will lose power when the engine warms? If their is no heat exchanger present on Stage 1 (regardless of octane) than after repeated hard pulls or long spirited driving there is definitely the possibility of the engine de-rating itself as a self preservation tactic and thus reducing power. Again, this is an S55 specific trait and will most liekyl not be applicable to the B58.

3.) If you put lower quality gasoline in the car then 91/93 the car just will produce less power. No other side effects would occur unless you were running and race gas or E85 octane mapping and then put 87 in there. Then you have different issues.

4.) Pricing I won't comment on as I have stated before it has not been discussed for the B58 platform. Applying arguments to unknown variables is a disservice to everyone as it just muddies the waters and creates more speculation.
Thanks for the explanation. I'm not a "rocket surgeon" so I took a stab at what I could based on the S55.

With the "piggy-backs", info was pretty straight forward, "Sport" or Elite (stage 1 .v2 and the .v2). Now, with the flash being a Stage 1 also and then variations within that flash can be confusing.

I'll wait until the B58 Flash is introduced and how it's marketed before deciding to upgrade or stay with what I currently have.

I was exceptionally happy with the Elite .v1. Easy, no nonsense dealer install and if one wants to go back to stock, simply unplug it.

Thanks again.
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      11-22-2019, 02:14 PM   #102
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Quote:
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With the "piggy-backs", info was pretty straight forward, "Sport" or Elite (stage 1 .v2 and the .v2). Now, with the flash being a Stage 1 also and then variations within that flash can be confusing.
No argument from me. This first generation as we transition into having this cornucopia of tuning solutions is going to be a learning curve for everyone. Once its normalized though it should be a bit easier and boil down to:

Basic boost controller = DINANTRONICS SPORT (no warranty)
More comprehensive external controller = DINANTRONICS ELITE (warranty and no warranty versions --- no stages)
Warrantied flash = DINAN+ (warranty, no stages)
Non-warrantied flash = STAGE 1, 2, 3 (no warranty, potentially stages, octane maps, etc)

The problem right now we have is stages (with DINANTRONICS ELITE) and upgrade paths that are a problem for this first generation that won't be an issue in the future. It is what it is, its just confusing for everyone.
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      11-26-2019, 08:26 AM   #103
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I appreciate the updates. Looking to get the B58 warrantied flash option this coming spring if its available (along with a LSD).
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      01-11-2020, 05:58 PM   #104
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updates? anyone planning on playing test dummy when this new tune comes out?
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      01-13-2020, 09:39 AM   #105
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Interesting note on the Dinan website about the M2C reflash:

COMPATABILITY NOTICE - BOX CODES & JUNE 2019 FACTORY UPDATE


DME box code and bootloader information must be obtained from the vehicle to determine if a vehicle is flashable in its current state. In some cases we will need to create a file for your vehicle. This process could take several days and multiple dealer visits.


Vehicles previously serviced or updated after June of 2019 may have received a DME bootloader update from BMW. This bootloader version will prevent the Dinan software upgrade from completing. DMEs with the updated bootloader must be removed from the vehicle, and sent to Dinan HQ to have the bootloader backdated. DMEs sent to Dinan for the backdating procedure will not be opened or physically modified in any way. Once the DME is returned to the dealer, they must still be flashed with the Dinan performance software through the OBDII port. If a previously backdated and flashed ECU is updated with the new bootloader, the above process will need to be repeated. Dinan will not pay labor under warranty to remove and reinstall ECUs that were previously backdated, and then updated by BMW or a third party.
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      01-13-2020, 06:09 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
Would hardly say it is forgotten considering we own 2 B58 vehicles (the only engine we have multiple of) and they are being worked on at 2 separate R&D locations but I get the frustration. Its frustrating on my end as well when I get the same questions over and over again that I can't answer.



I would first get rid of referring to it as Stage 2. The historical way of doing Dinan tunes will be no longer going forward as it is being changed to a more universally accepted format. At most Dinan will have 3 stages. Stage 1 being for stock and lightly modified vehicles with bolt-ons (intake, exhaust, etc). Stage 2 would be typically be the big turbo stage. In some cases there may be an in between stage that takes advantage of a something else, such as a 2 stage intake or a fundamental change to charge cooling or something of that ilk which provides a big jump in power. Generally speaking though 2 stages is the max you will see going forward from Dinan. We would offer both warrantied and non-warrantied variants of each. The same goes for the piggyback side of things as we will still be offering both solutions.

So the flash that is coming would be considered a stage 1 and would not require any additional modifications. As I noted earlier I don't know what the upgrade path nor the price points would be since it hasn't been discussed for the platform but it should be similar to what exists currently for the S55. That is going to a warrantied version of flash from DINANTRONICS would have a minor upgrade fee whereas transferring over to a limited warranty variant would be a free switch.
Will the warranty also cover the transmission? The ZF8 is probably the weak link in the drivetrain, given it's torque rating.
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      01-13-2020, 07:16 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreculah View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
Would hardly say it is forgotten considering we own 2 B58 vehicles (the only engine we have multiple of) and they are being worked on at 2 separate R&D locations but I get the frustration. Its frustrating on my end as well when I get the same questions over and over again that I can't answer.



I would first get rid of referring to it as Stage 2. The historical way of doing Dinan tunes will be no longer going forward as it is being changed to a more universally accepted format. At most Dinan will have 3 stages. Stage 1 being for stock and lightly modified vehicles with bolt-ons (intake, exhaust, etc). Stage 2 would be typically be the big turbo stage. In some cases there may be an in between stage that takes advantage of a something else, such as a 2 stage intake or a fundamental change to charge cooling or something of that ilk which provides a big jump in power. Generally speaking though 2 stages is the max you will see going forward from Dinan. We would offer both warrantied and non-warrantied variants of each. The same goes for the piggyback side of things as we will still be offering both solutions.

So the flash that is coming would be considered a stage 1 and would not require any additional modifications. As I noted earlier I don't know what the upgrade path nor the price points would be since it hasn't been discussed for the platform but it should be similar to what exists currently for the S55. That is going to a warrantied version of flash from DINANTRONICS would have a minor upgrade fee whereas transferring over to a limited warranty variant would be a free switch.
Will the warranty also cover the transmission? The ZF8 is probably the weak link in the drivetrain, given it's torque rating.
Yes. Transmission is also covered if the Dinan product is deemed to be the cause of the failure. That said the torque ratings of the transmission from the factory are done so to minimize warranty claims as they typical are rated at the exact same as maximum rated factory power (ie: no margin of error). Then you take into account the typical underrating of power you can be assured the stock transmission can handle a healthy amount of power more then it's rating.
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      02-09-2020, 07:06 PM   #108
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Hey Dinan, is it fair to say, no Stage 2 forthcoming?
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      02-10-2020, 01:20 PM   #109
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Hey Dinan, is it fair to say, no Stage 2 forthcoming?
Safe to say its not coming in the old way it was originally intended to be released as (additional map for the DINANTRONICS hardware). Still have a ECU flash coming that will essentially be stage 2 although it won't be named that way.

And no... I do not have an ETA.
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      02-12-2020, 12:51 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
Safe to say its not coming in the old way it was originally intended to be released as (additional map for the DINANTRONICS hardware). Still have a ECU flash coming that will essentially be stage 2 although it won't be named that way.

And no... I do not have an ETA.
The one thing you have over most other tunes, your relationship with BMW, is going to be irrelevant. My car is going to be out of warranty before this tune gets released. Or at least the overlap window will have shrunk considerably. Why would I wait longer to pay more for dinan when my warranty is expired anyways.
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