[4Hockey4]

Odd, Richmond guy told me its pushed through BMWUSA admin, and it wasnt individual dealerships needing to be signed up for all 50 states etc.

I do registration and sales tax for small/mid businesses, not the case, at least talking to my folks.

Oh well on to next one I guess ! (and you could get temp tag and register and pay sales tax separately too)

[Wyldstyle]

Originally Posted by 4Hockey4

(and you could get temp tag and register and pay sales tax separately too)

Not sure about that either. I was told by an Illinois dealer that they are required, by law, to collect sales tax & register the car for you if you are financing. That one's definitely by state, because dealers in some other states have told me it was up to me whether the sales tax was rolled in & that I would be on my own to register the car at the DMV (kind of a pain to go to the DMV, especially in the current environment). Anyhow wouldn't be surprised if it is the same law in CA.

ETA: Pretty sure if the guy in CA had a way around it, he would've floated it in order to move a car. As it was, he shut down my very preliminary inquiry with the email quoted above.

[4Hockey4]

Originally Posted by Wyldstyle

Not sure about that either. I was told by an Illinois dealer that they are required, by law, to collect sales tax & register the car for you if you are financing. That one's definitely by state, because dealers in some other states have told me it was up to me whether the sales tax was rolled in & that I would be on my own to register the car at the DMV (kind of a pain to go to the DMV, especially in the current environment). Anyhow wouldn't be surprised if it is the same law in CA.

ETA: Pretty sure if the guy in CA had a way around it, he would've floated it in order to move a car. As it was, he shut down my very preliminary inquiry with the email quoted above.

Yea could be state issue, not so in above. All would have sold me my car.

Sounds like you should ask for 7% off and order.

[Yak]

Wyldstyle there was some discussion about xdrive with all season tires vs snow tires. If you order the car with staggered summers you get the increased top limiter unless something has changed since I bought mine. Something to consider.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Yak

Wyldstyle there was some discussion about xdrive with all season tires vs snow tires. If you order the car with staggered summers you get the increased top limiter unless something has changed since I bought mine. Something to consider.

Perhaps you can specify the different speeds at which the vehicle will be limited depending on tire choice so she can determine its relevance versus having summer tires one should not drive on under 45 degrees F?

[Wyldstyle]

I appreciate that advantage being raised. However, I never drive fast enough for that to matter for me. I would have to be on a track, which I don't anticipate doing with any frequency (I do occasionally think I'd like to try it some day!).

[Yak]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Perhaps you can specify the different speeds at which the vehicle will be limited depending on tire choice so she can determine its relevance versus having summer tires one should not drive on under 45 degrees F?

My pleasure. Adding the summer tires from the factory will increase top speed from 130mph to 155 mph. If you sell the car privately at a future date it would have value to the next owner. Having dedicated summers and dedicated winters really increases the fun and safety.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Yak

My pleasure. Adding the summer tires from the factory will increase top speed from 130mph to 155 mph. If you sell the car privately at a future date it would have value to the next owner. Having dedicated summers and dedicated winters really increases the fun and safety.

I switched to summer tires when I moved to the southwest. In New Hampshire, how do you deal with the "shoulder" seasons....no snow on the ground in late Fall and early Spring, but too cold (below 45F) for summer tires? In Michigan, where I moved from, ultra-high performance all seasons such as Michelin Pilot Sport AS3+ were a common 3-season solution instead of summers and before putting on the Blizzak WS tires.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

In New Hampshire, how do you deal with the "shoulder" seasons....no snow on the ground in late Fall and early Spring, but too cold (below 45F) for summer tires?

In NH, and even now in Southern OH with the M240i, I've solved the shoulder season problem with a third set of tires. Even with modern forecasting that is reasonably accurate two weeks out, the shoulder seasons are unpredictable in their onset and length. I just said to heck with it and added a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires to my winter and summer sets. On this car, I use a dedicated set of OEM staggered wheels for the A/S tires.

I'll be the first to acknowledge the extravagance of this approach. However, I've always been a "tire guy", and I continue to look at tires the same way I do the shoes I own and use: each has its purpose, and when used appropriately, it makes travel that much more rewarding.

[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by dradernh

In NH, and even now in Southern OH, I solved the shoulder season problem with a third set of tires. Even with modern forecasting that is reasonably accurate two weeks out, the shoulder seasons are unpredictable in their onset and length. I just said to heck with it and added a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires to my winter and summer sets. On this car, I use a dedicated set of OEM staggered wheels for the A/S tires.

I'll be the first to acknowledge the extravagance of this approach. However, I've always been a "tire guy", and I continue to look at tires the same way I do the shoes I own and use: each has its purpose, and when used appropriately, it makes travel that much more rewarding.

Please continue being a tire nerd. Y'all are incredibly helpful for nerds like us who never nerded out about tires and learn so much from you!

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by BimBimM2

Please continue being a tire nerd. Y'all are incredibly helpful for nerds like us who never nerded out about tires and learn so much from you!

Will do, no worries!

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by dradernh

In NH, and even now in Southern OH with the M240i, I've solved the shoulder season problem with a third set of tires. Even with modern forecasting that is reasonably accurate two weeks out, the shoulder seasons are unpredictable in their onset and length. I just said to heck with it and added a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires to my winter and summer sets. On this car, I use a dedicated set of OEM staggered wheels for the A/S tires.

I'll be the first to acknowledge the extravagance of this approach. However, I've always been a "tire guy", and I continue to look at tires the same way I do the shoes I own and use: each has its purpose, and when used appropriately, it makes travel that much more rewarding.

That is exactly the most logical and highest quality solution from the perspective of driving the car. Few would be willing on a forum where many still balk at the thought of two sets to safely get them through winter. However, for implementing the ideal!

[cristo]

I’m a firm believer in summer and winter
sets, and a compact spare in each car,
and also have an all season spare
tire/wheel in case a replacement tire is
needed but not readily available.
That’s 10 on and in the 2 cars and
10 stacked in the basement.
But with no garage and a small house,
I’m just not ready for 3 sets of tires/wheels
per car.
I have been fooled by the spring 14 day
forecast a few times over the years,
but it’s pretty quick and easy work to
put the winter sets back on at the curb
for a few more days when that happens.

[Wyldstyle]

Does driving on winter tires kind of suck? Is the ride really rough? (I fully acknowledge that ending up in a ditch, or worse, would definitely suck more.)

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Wyldstyle

Does driving on winter tires kind of suck? Is the ride really rough? (I fully acknowledge that ending up in a ditch, or worse, would definitely suck more.)

No, they are not rough. The tread compound is actually softer which helps with maintaining traction on snow and ice. Ride comfort may actually improve. Due to the tread pattern, there may be an increase in road noise...akin to a "hum". However, on dry/non-snow surfaces, the tires feel "squishy", which is why the idea is not to install them until the flakes fly. Braking distances lengthen and tread wears quickly. They are meant for superior traction on cold, slippery surfaces, and that is how they can be life-savers.

There is an intermediate category called Performance Winter, with tires such as Michelin Alpin PA4 and Blizzak LM. For St. Louis, these may be optimal. They are in the middle and have more moderate winter characteristics and better dry road behavior, but clearly are superior to the standard all season tires on snow and ice. They just aren't quite as snow/ice capable as the Studless category of Michelin XIcexi3 or Blizzak WS90 and other similar tires.

This purpose-built kind of tire also explains why you can't just use summer tires right up to the first snowfall, but don't want winters on too soon. Summers need to come off when temps drop to about 40-45 F. Thus, the ultra high performance all season tire was born for those who live in climates where the temperatures can be below 40-45 F for long periods before/after actual snowfall season.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Wyldstyle

Does driving on winter tires kind of suck? Is the ride really rough? (I fully acknowledge that ending up in a ditch, or worse, would definitely suck more.)

I've owned my RWD 6MT M235 new since 2/2016. The car has ran on square 225/40R18 Michelin Alpin PA4s for all winters since purchase. The first winter the car didn't have an LSD and it was fine. All winters since were with an LSD and it was a slight improvement in the snow. Kansas City gets a bit more snow than St. Louis on average and just like St. Louis, not a whole lot of snow remains on the street after 24 hours of snowfall. Winters in our two cities are just typically cold (usually 20s to 40s) and get maybe 8 to 15 sub 4" snow events.

The PA4s were great in the snow. I've driven on them in 50 and 60 degree weather when we'd get the typical winter warm spells. The tires feel like utter crap in temps above 50. The tires are grippy in a straight line but roll terribly in turns and braking on dry surfaces isn't good as the tires are far more prone to lock-up under threshold braking. They also aren't sporty looking at all. They are also completely shot after 17K miles as the rubber is very soft.

This coming winter I'll be going to Continental DWS06. I had these on my 2012 WRX and they were great. They have a little less snow traction than the PA4, but they last quite a bit longer, look better, and more importantly, handle monumentally better. It's all a trade off. For the typical Kansas City winter and road conditions, it's my opinion that the DWS06 is a safer choice.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

...This coming winter I'll be going to Continental DWS06. I had these on my 2012 WRX and they were great. They have a little less snow traction than the PA4, but they last quite a bit longer, look better, and more importantly, handle monumentally better. It's all a trade off. For the typical Kansas City winter and road conditions, it's my opinion that the DWS06 is a safer choice.

Here is a copy/paste from the Continental website from the DWS06 page:

Tuned for drivers who want a true all-season tire without sacrificing performance, handling, and traction even in rain and light snow, the ExtremeContact™ DWS06 is Continental's latest leading edge performance all-season tire with massive wet and dry grip, injecting powerful confidence into every turn and straightaway.

Notice the use of the word "light" in front of "snow", no doubt reviewed and approved by their corporate counsel. The rain doesn't need to be described as "light". If you have more than a dusting of snow, Continental might suggest that is not the design/performance objective of the DWS06.

I agree DWS06 is a great tire! They are among the very best ultra high performance all season tires. I had them on our 2016 A6 and they were comfortable, quiet, and just a notch behind the Michelin Pilot Sport AS3+ I had at the same time on a BMW for performance attributes. We enjoyed them very much for three seasons...and them took them off for winter and installed Blizzak WS80.

A lot of the final decision will depend on how you view winter. Is this a season that challenges you to somehow maintain "enthusiastic" driving performance because you demand that 12 months/year, or a season to simply survive safely when "fun to drive" hibernates, or something in-between? Do you care how a winter tire was styled? Once you prioritize your needs and consider your expectations for the winter experience, you will know the technical solution.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Here is a copy/paste from the Continental website from the DWS06 page:

Tuned for drivers who want a true all-season tire without sacrificing performance, handling, and traction even in rain and light snow, the ExtremeContact™ DWS06 is Continental's latest leading edge performance all-season tire with massive wet and dry grip, injecting powerful confidence into every turn and straightaway.

Notice the use of the word "light" in front of "snow", no doubt reviewed and approved by their corporate counsel. The rain doesn't need to be described as "light". If you have more than a dusting of snow, Continental might suggest that is not the design/performance objective of the DWS06.

The DWS06 did great on my WRX in up to 5" of snow, BUT that car was AWD. I would certainly expect that my RWD M235 will not be as good as the WRX on the DWS06. Being RWD, you do have to think about your routes a bit more and maintain momentum regardless of if you have all seasons, winter performance, or snow tires.

I'd never recommend driving on all seasons or even PA4s if you live somewhere that gets a lot of snow. For those areas, true snow tires are necessary. In the central Midwest where snow on road only happens maybe 8-15 days out of the year, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to compromise the car's emergency handling for a max of 15 days out of the 100-120 day winter season.

I keep a set of AutoSocks in the trunk just in case for the worst case. They were insane in deep snow. I took my RWD G35 out in 6" snow UP HILL and it didn't have any issues with the AutoSocks. You look at them and it doesn't make sense that fabric can grab the snow like it does.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

... it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to compromise the car's emergency handling for a max of 15 days out of the 100-120 day winter season.

This reminds me of discussions (debates?) I had with my dad decades ago. One side says the chances of something going wrong are low...single digit percentages, perhaps. His counter was, ok, but when it's you, it's 100%. Risk management preference is another in a long line of personal decisions we encounter on this forum! Thinking about how I'd kick myself for that one time I might not be able to brake in a short enough distance for some unexpected event in front of me in winter has kept me on snow tires. I guess the early lesson stuck. But, I solved it by moving to the southwest!

[4Hockey4]

another new one...probably saw. they have 2

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...kType=otherVDP

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...Type=spotlight

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

[Wyldstyle]

Originally Posted by 4Hockey4

another new one...probably saw. they have 2

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...kType=otherVDP

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...Type=spotlight

Rusnak is actually the CA dealership I mentioned in one of these threads as saying they'd have to hire a titling company because I am out of state & financing; here is the quote from their email: "Most of our out of state deals are cash deals. With financing we have to hire a titling company to handle the regisration which can take around 6 to 8 weeks."

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

I actually inquired after this one. The discount these guys offered was borderline insulting. I thought they must not have included the rebates in their price yet, but they had. Felt like a waste of time to press...

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

This is the MW/CR car that prompted this thread & poll! This car is awesome but a loaner. I have pretty much decided against a loaner, maybe unless it is some amazing deal - which this one most definitely is not. I tried to get the guy to throw in certification as that would make me more comfortable, but he wanted to charge me for it.

[4Hockey4]

Go cash deal, rates are low everywhere now...take 10 minutes on BOA.com, make sure they still give BMW rebates...their problem not yours.

Have them give you extended tag, and they pay for title company.

Dont buy a loaner

Or start parting together your car and order end of July.