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      02-03-2022, 10:14 AM   #1
MarcoZandrini
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What oil are you using

I'm running LM 4200 oil in my car at this time. I want to change to a fully synthetic (meaning group 4 and/or 5 base stock). What are you running, and why?

Thanks!
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      02-03-2022, 11:31 AM   #2
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I think Redline and Motul 300v oils are group 5 base. As you probably know, most synthetics are blends.
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      02-03-2022, 11:53 AM   #3
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Whatever the dealer puts in for now (0W30 I believe) but come summer, I'm looking at Pentospeed. Either 5W30 or 5W40. I'm in Michigan, so the summer temps are mild and I don't track the car or beat on it.

5W30: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/pen...RoCAFUQAvD_BwE

5W40: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/pen...ntosin-8044206
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      02-03-2022, 01:23 PM   #4
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BMW Group LL-17 FE+ 0W20

That's the oil the dealer put in the car during its last free oil change in October.
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      02-03-2022, 08:53 PM   #5
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LiquiMoly molygen 0w20 at ~5k and whatever the BMW dealer put in it at ~9500mi in October. Will either go back to molygen for the intermediate or go to the liquimoly toptec of the same spec.
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      02-04-2022, 06:53 AM   #6
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Wow, so it looks like most dealers are putting 0W20 in B58's, huh? Can't imagine running anything lighter than a XW30 in a 6 cylinder engine, let alone a high(er) performance engine.
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      02-04-2022, 08:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cos270 View Post
Wow, so it looks like most dealers are putting 0W20 in B58's, huh?
This from my M240i's manual:

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      02-04-2022, 09:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
This from my M240i's manual:

Oh, I have no doubt that it's approved by BMW. My comment just came from my general paranoia and excessively cautious approach I take to cars haha. Even being an engineer, it's hard to believe just how far modern material sciences have come in the way of lubricants.
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      02-04-2022, 09:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cos270 View Post
Wow, so it looks like most dealers are putting 0W20 in B58's, huh? Can't imagine running anything lighter than a XW30 in a 6 cylinder engine, let alone a high(er) performance engine.
BMW engineered the B58 to be run on 0w20 oil, as is the case with most of their current engines. 0w30 is specified as an alternative fill if the correct 0w20 isnít available. Using a viscosity higher than specified may lead to lower oil flow rates and localized overheating (such as in very tight tolerance journal bearings) in certain high load operating conditions.

Running flat out on the Autobahn with 0w20 doesnít seem to have shown any longevity issues with BMW engines in Germany. The oil spec for our Porsche Macan S (0w20, 2yr / 30,000km change interval) is similar, it is rated right at the top of vehicle reliability ratings, the right oil quality is needed for those change intervals, though.

Most Japanese manufacturers are now moving to 0w16 oil as the specified fill.

Old technology engines with much looser tolerances would need a higher oil viscosity to maintain oil pressure at high loads due to loose tolerances.

If equating thicker with better, then 40w70 may be the solution that someone could try, and get back to us with the results https://www.atlanticoil.com/oil/stop-smoke-40w-70/
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      02-04-2022, 09:44 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cos270 View Post
Oh, I have no doubt that it's approved by BMW. My comment just came from my general paranoia and excessively cautious approach I take to cars haha. Even being an engineer, it's hard to believe just how far modern material sciences have come in the way of lubricants.
The oil spec on the M235i N55 is not the same as the B58, though, it is designed around a 0w30 oil, as specified in most previous generation BMW engines.
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      02-04-2022, 10:17 AM   #11
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The S65 in the E90 M3 recommended 10W-60, likely because of the higher revving characteristics of that engine. This is not an S65.
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      02-04-2022, 01:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cos270 View Post
it's hard to believe just how far modern material sciences have come in the...
...last few decades.

I find it the most interesting aspect of our modern material world, and it's so wide-ranging it would take a series of books to detail it all.
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      02-04-2022, 02:59 PM   #13
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What do you think about this oil: https://www.ravenolamerica.com/passe...l-ravenol-efs/

Ravenol EFS 0w-20?

or this: https://www.ravenolamerica.com/passe...l-ravenol-fes/

Ravenol FES 0w-30?
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      02-04-2022, 03:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini View Post
What do you think about this oil:

Ravenol EFS 0w-20?
The link shows that it ticks this box: "Approval: BMW Longlife-17 FE+", so I guess BMW couldn't deny a warranty claim if that was the oil in the engine at the time of failure.

What jumped out at me is that it's rather expensive. However, I don't know how to interpret the marketing material that some of the oil merchants attach to their products. When in the past I've gone to Bob is the Oil Guy for enlightenment, my head really started spinning! So I don't know, maybe it's worth it to pay around twice as much as a BMW dealer charges for the oil they sell.

I'm always reminded of what the owner of Blackstone Labs said when asked which oil he used: "Whatever's on sale." IIRC, I saw that in a Grassroots Motorsports piece.
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      02-05-2022, 12:59 AM   #15
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Project farms oil tests shows that amsoil and pennzoil ultra plat are the top 2 across many attributes. Also, IIRC, pennzoil is made by shell and bmw, in addition to being easily available for me at Canadian tire (on sale usually too).

I'd prefer 0w40 weight with the colder Canadian temps but the 5w30 is the one most commonly sold it seems (and still great!)
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      02-05-2022, 01:51 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POMFKIMOCHI View Post
Project farms oil tests shows that amsoil and pennzoil ultra plat are the top 2 across many attributes. Also, IIRC, pennzoil is made by shell and bmw, in addition to being easily available for me at Canadian tire (on sale usually too).

I'd prefer 0w40 weight with the colder Canadian temps but the 5w30 is the one most commonly sold it seems (and still great!)
I can’t see any oil sold at Canadian Tire that meets the BMW spec for the B58 in the M240i (either LL-01FE, LL-14FE+ or LL17-FE+). Castrol Edge LL17-FE+ 0w20 would work, but it is not the same as the Castrol Edge 0w20 that Canadian Tire sells. The only LL-01FE oil that seems to be commonly available besides BMWs own branding, is Motul LL-01FE 5w30.

The 0w20 Edge suitable for the B58 is also to the API SP standard, whereas the other Edge 0w20s available are only API SN+, the oil characteristics are a little different:

https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/F...epp-c2x7ve.pdf

https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/F...PXE-ALDHT5.pdf

Last edited by aerobod; 02-05-2022 at 02:16 AM..
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      02-05-2022, 08:30 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
The link shows that it ticks this box: "Approval: BMW Longlife-17 FE+", so I guess BMW couldn't deny a warranty claim if that was the oil in the engine at the time of failure.

What jumped out at me is that it's rather expensive. However, I don't know how to interpret the marketing material that some of the oil merchants attach to their products. When in the past I've gone to Bob is the Oil Guy for enlightenment, my head really started spinning! So I don't know, maybe it's worth it to pay around twice as much as a BMW dealer charges for the oil they sell.

I'm always reminded of what the owner of Blackstone Labs said when asked which oil he used: "Whatever's on sale." IIRC, I saw that in a Grassroots Motorsports piece.
I agree with your experience at BITOG! There are so many "opinions" and oil specs!!!
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      02-06-2022, 10:25 AM   #18
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Currently running liqui moly TOP TEC 6600 ow-20 which has the BMW LL-17FE+ certification. When my warranty runs out, I plan on tuning and switching to 0w-30 or 5w-30 oil.
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      02-07-2022, 03:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerobod View Post
I canít see any oil sold at Canadian Tire that meets the BMW spec for the B58 in the M240i (either LL-01FE, LL-14FE+ or LL17-FE+). Castrol Edge LL17-FE+ 0w20 would work, but it is not the same as the Castrol Edge 0w20 that Canadian Tire sells. The only LL-01FE oil that seems to be commonly available besides BMWs own branding, is Motul LL-01FE 5w30.

The 0w20 Edge suitable for the B58 is also to the API SP standard, whereas the other Edge 0w20s available are only API SN+, the oil characteristics are a little different:
You do realize bmw branded oil is made by Shell / pennzoil, right? Seeing as how OP does his own maintenance and that his car is probably out of warranty by now anyway, why even adhere to bmw specs? OP also tracks his car, so I'd expect he'd want the best performance out of the liquids he's putting in, I just suggested one of the top performers across many different tests on some of the most popular brands. While it doesn't carry the Longlife certification I believe this is due to BMW's own instruction as to not cannibalize their partnered oil products, and it has the API SP cert. Especially with the added fact that bmw only uses pennzoil in their motorsport vehicles, and being the only oil made from natural gas, ultra plat (or euro) is the only way I'd go.
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      02-07-2022, 09:50 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POMFKIMOCHI View Post
You do realize bmw branded oil is made by Shell / pennzoil, right? Seeing as how OP does his own maintenance and that his car is probably out of warranty by now anyway, why even adhere to bmw specs? OP also tracks his car, so I'd expect he'd want the best performance out of the liquids he's putting in, I just suggested one of the top performers across many different tests on some of the most popular brands. While it doesn't carry the Longlife certification I believe this is due to BMW's own instruction as to not cannibalize their partnered oil products, and it has the API SP cert. Especially with the added fact that bmw only uses pennzoil in their motorsport vehicles, and being the only oil made from natural gas, ultra plat (or euro) is the only way I'd go.
Yes, I do realise BMW does farm out their oil manufacture as they don't own an oil refinery , They have used Shell and Castrol (BP) amongst others over the years as their suppliers.

If you don't use an oil that meets the LL-01FE, LL-14FE+ or LL17-FE+ standard, it's properties have never been matched to the engine needs by BMW, so you are on your own. In warranty this would be a problem with a lubrication related failure, outside of warranty is a user beware issue.

BMW has never certified an Xw40 oil for the B58, you will get lower oil flow through the bearings with a thicker oil and more operation of the bypass flow valve with cold oil due to a higher pumping pressure.

There is more to the oil than the Longlife properties, I'm sure there are plenty of oils that will work fine, but the engineers who developed the engine specified specific properties that you don't know that the oil will meet unless if is certified to.
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      02-07-2022, 02:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerobod View Post
Yes, I do realise BMW does farm out their oil manufacture as they don't own an oil refinery , They have used Shell and Castrol (BP) amongst others over the years as their suppliers.

If you don't use an oil that meets the LL-01FE, LL-14FE+ or LL17-FE+ standard, it's properties have never been matched to the engine needs by BMW, so you are on your own. In warranty this would be a problem with a lubrication related failure, outside of warranty is a user beware issue.

BMW has never certified an Xw40 oil for the B58, you will get lower oil flow through the bearings with a thicker oil and more operation of the bypass flow valve with cold oil due to a higher pumping pressure.

There is more to the oil than the Longlife properties, I'm sure there are plenty of oils that will work fine, but the engineers who developed the engine specified specific properties that you don't know that the oil will meet unless if is certified to.
Under the viscosity grades in my manual states that alternatively, 0W40 or 5w40 can be used. Also the newer b58s with particulate filters have different requirements as seen here : https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...engine/1PSryV8
In addition to this I came across an interesting comment from the FCP Euro website on their B58 oil change kits:
"New BMW's fitted with BXX series engines "Require" 0W-20 LL14FE+ Rated oils. WE DO NOT RECOMMEND using this spec! The levels of protection LL14FE provides are much lower than LL01. The new formulation LL14FE is mainly designed with CAFE ratings, EPA requirements and fuel mileage in mind, NOT OVERALL PROTECTION."

This is all besides the point as my recommendation was to find what is best available anyway (and their xW40 oils usually aren't).

Ever since the transition period in 2015, bmw hasn't used Castrol as their oil supplier other than for older cars to maintain warranty. At this current time, All bmws are running around with pennzoil pure plus (natural gas oil) branded bmw while under warranty. Do you really think they can't achieve ANY standards that bmw would need seeing as how they're making all the oil they use? I repeat, BMW only uses PENNZOIL in their ALL their passenger cars AND their motorsport vehicles. This is not a fact I take lightly and leads me to believe that pennzoil actually knows best when it comes to oil for bmws (BMW engineers certainly seems to think so).

To each their own obviously, just stating the facts that I've observed.
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      02-07-2022, 02:35 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POMFKIMOCHI View Post
Under the viscosity grades in my manual states that alternatively, 0W40 or 5w40 can be used. Also the newer b58s with particulate filters have different requirements as seen here : https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...engine/1PSryV8
In addition to this I came across an interesting comment from the FCP Euro website on their B58 oil change kits:
"New BMW's fitted with BXX series engines "Require" 0W-20 LL14FE+ Rated oils. WE DO NOT RECOMMEND using this spec! The levels of protection LL14FE provides are much lower than LL01. The new formulation LL14FE is mainly designed with CAFE ratings, EPA requirements and fuel mileage in mind, NOT OVERALL PROTECTION."

This is all besides the point as my recommendation was to find what is best available anyway (and their xW40 oils usually aren't).

Ever since the transition period in 2015, bmw hasn't used Castrol as their oil supplier other than for older cars to maintain warranty. At this current time, All bmws are running around with pennzoil pure plus (natural gas oil) branded bmw while under warranty. Do you really think they can't achieve ANY standards that bmw would need seeing as how they're making all the oil they use? I repeat, BMW only uses PENNZOIL in their ALL their passenger cars AND their motorsport vehicles. This is not a fact I take lightly and leads me to believe that pennzoil actually knows best when it comes to oil for bmws (BMW engineers certainly seems to think so).

To each their own obviously, just stating the facts that I've observed.
Up to one litre of alternative oils are allowed, including those in the Xw40 grades, but not for the full fill. I would take BMWs recommendations for oil over a vendor that isn't responsible for testing and specifying the oil, it is just their opinion which may or may not be valid, as their primary aim is to sell product, as opposed to engineering and selling product.

Pennzoil / Shell do make oil that meets the BMW specs, they also produce plenty of oil that doesn't. They would show the certification on the oil if it did meet the specs.

There are arguably better oils that also meet the BMW specs, as the GTL natural gas derived oils are only Group III, whereas Motul and some of the Castrol oils have high PAO Group IV content (typically the European produced ones, but not those produced in North America).

Most manufacturers have a wide range of oils of different quality and properties, best to use those that meet the BMW specs in my opinion.
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