[Fiesta ST to M240i]

My car: 2018 M240i xdrive
Mods: AA catted dp, Remus non-res catback, K&N drop in filter
Tunes: MHD stage 2 91 octane map running "93" octane & xHP stage 3

I have brand new stock gapped NGK 94201 plugs and I've been running MHD's 91 octane maps after I realized I was getting crazy timing corrections on all cylinders throughout the pull on the 93 map. This helped slightly but still see timing corrections on most/all cylinders and sometimes still seeing over 5 degrees pulled. The nearest e85 station in over 30 minutes away and I'd rather not make monthly trips down there just to fill a 5 gallon gas can to store in my garage so I can add 1 to 1.5 gallons per tank.

The only alternative really other than going back to stock (or maybe stage 1 would help?) is to get a custom tune but I'm wondering if this would even clean up my logs? I've tried 3 or 4 gas stations thus far (Shell and Sunoco) and all their 93 have yielded crappy results. But when I use that same gas with 1.5 gallons of e85 added to a full tank it cleans right up. Usually 0 corrections across the board.

My goal is to keep the car for at least several more years and 50k+ more miles and I'm wondering if these logs are "clean enough" for long term reliability.

A bunch of my logs with details on what gas was used if anyone would be so kind to check them out: https://datazap.me/u/nets

Thanks so much for any help.

[cooolone2]

You gotta PAY to play!

You want to run maps? Then make the trip and stock up on the E85, get 2 5gal cans then, or look for a home delivery of a 55gal drum! Racing fuel? Otherwise drop to stock tune unless high octane, because you'll get more power absent knock and pulled timing... Just sayin'

[B58togo]

My nearest E85 station is 90 minutes away. I have 16 five gallon VP jugs that I squeeze 5.75 gallons into. I make three ethanol runs a year. I suppose we all have varying levels of commitment/sacrifice.

[M8fam]

Stage 2 91 or 93 OTS maps shouldn’t be that hard to correct right? Fuel quality or spark plug gap?

High flow DP is all that’s needed for stage 2.

[JMcLellan]

Ethanol will solve the timing corrections. I was on my own "timing corrections" journey last year. Tried all the things. It was the ethanol that cleaned it up.

[McBobby Jr]

So it seems you have a fuel quality issue which sucks since you’re on the east coast using 93 from the top of line gas stations (Shell and Sunoco) and that shouldn’t be the case but with fuel quality here in the U.S. I’m not surprised. With that being said, you pretty much figured out why you were getting timing corrections with 1.5 gallons of E85 and you have brand new 94201 plugs so that rules out anything else for the cause of timing corrections. Before looking at a custom tune, I’d run a stage 1 map since they are softer than the stage 2 maps and see how that goes. Also, if Sunoco 94 is available near you that could be an option. If a station with 94 is close, it will be a lot more convenient then carrying jugs of E85 around.

[Fiesta ST to M240i]

Originally Posted by cooolone2

You gotta PAY to play!

You want to run maps? Then make the trip and stock up on the E85, get 2 5gal cans then, or look for a home delivery of a 55gal drum! Racing fuel? Otherwise drop to stock tune unless high octane, because you'll get more power absent knock and pulled timing... Just sayin'

Trust me I have no problem paying if I knew for sure a tuner could clean this up to where I can just stop at any gas station and fill up with "93". Might have to invest in some jugs and just make the trips.

Originally Posted by B58togo

My nearest E85 station is 90 minutes away. I have 16 five gallon VP jugs that I squeeze 5.75 gallons into. I make three ethanol runs a year. I suppose we all have varying levels of commitment/sacrifice.

That's insanity. I admire your dedication though lol I might just suck it up and store the e85.

Originally Posted by M8fam

Stage 2 91 or 93 OTS maps shouldn’t be that hard to correct right? Fuel quality or spark plug gap?

High flow DP is all that’s needed for stage 2.

Def bad fuel quality. Spark plugs are stock gap. I have to try stage 1 map after I run through this tank.

Originally Posted by JMcLellan

Ethanol will solve the timing corrections. I was on my own "timing corrections" journey last year. Tried all the things. It was the ethanol that cleaned it up.

I know these cars are high compression for a forced induction engine but damn I didn't know they'd be this picky with octane and/or my fuel being that bad.

Originally Posted by McBobby Jr

So it seems you have a fuel quality issue which sucks since you’re on the east coast using 93 from the top of line gas stations (Shell and Sunoco) and that shouldn’t be the case but with fuel quality here in the U.S. I’m not surprised. With that being said, you pretty much figured out why you were getting timing corrections with 1.5 gallons of E85 and you have brand new 94201 plugs so that rules out anything else for the cause of timing corrections. Before looking at a custom tune, I’d run a stage 1 map since they are softer than the stage 2 maps and see how that goes. Also, if Sunoco 94 is available near you that could be an option. If a station with 94 is close, it will be a lot more convenient then carrying jugs of E85 around.

Thanks for the tips. I'll have to do some digging but I don't think there are any that would be closer than the E85. There is a Sunoco with unleaded 100 race gas nearby but even a couple gallons of that doesn't clean up a full tank like E85 does and it costs $12.99 a gallon LOL

[cooolone2]

Again... You got to PAY to play!

Your thinking, that somehow you're going to find a Unicorn and I'm the face of tried and true road pavers who have blown engines and more exploring the thresholds of what works and what doesn't just won't work.

The "knock" is the issue, and it's cause. In your case, it's the octane rating of the fuel you can access. There are other ways to offset knock and prevent it, all cost $ and determination. You could install a Meth Kit too seeing as you already have decided to "tune" and never need the ethanol. But that too comes with it's own levels of annoyance, lol.

Bottom line is if you are going to run maps, you'll need to address fuel consistency as well. E85 allows us to do this to a certain extent if we get into the weeds and test the fuel we are using and then create the proper ratio of the ethanol and non-ethanol fuel to achieve the correct octane for a given map.

See, the combustion cycle is always looking for Stoich, and your octane is important in reaching this as it varies, but the map doesn't and can't know what it might be so makes assumptions. The map will regulate fuel and air and spark during the combustion cycle, again, adjusting those parameters to reach Stoich based upon what the exhaust is telling it what is happening. Adding E85 will increase octane but if the adjustment is not accounted for in the map/tune, it will lean out the combustion cycle. Not a good thing as this lean mixture will run "hotter" than normal and create knock. The knock sensor will cause immediate fuel dumping and timing pull which will kill power. Simple explanation... And is why some boxes tunes are junk, without going into great explanation.

Point is... If you want to play...

Fast/Cheap/Reliable

Pick Only two that you can have... You want FAST, it's not cheap, and usually not reliable, things break. You want cheap, then it won't be fast or reliable, you want reliable, then it's not going to be fast or cheap, lmao.

So buckle down, do some research, set your goals and be realistic about what it takes to obtain them with the expected results on all fronts.

You can easily obtain something like this:

https://petroleumservicecompany.com/...ane-race-fuel/

But again, it's investment and appreciation for what you're trying to do. Lol

Good Luck

[JMcLellan]

I had been using Shell 93 V power for a while. Then I got MHD and started reviewing the logs to see the timing corrections. Figured I was good with Shell but nope. I am really lucky though. There is a station about 15 minutes away that has 93 octane, E85, and premixed E30 all at the same pump. It's a tuners wet dream.

[ZHP to B58]

I stick with Chevron's 91 only and ran the same tunes.

Started adding 2 gallons of E85 then the rest 91 octane and with no other changes, it runs much smoother and pulls harder vs. just 100% filled with Chevron 91.

[jLona240]

Stupid question incoming but I'm running stage 2+ MHD with a B58TU hpfp.

How many gallons of E85 can I safely add to my 93 to combat timing corrections? 1, 1.5 or 2 gallons?

[Fiesta ST to M240i]

Originally Posted by jLona240

Stupid question incoming but I'm running stage 2+ MHD with a B58TU hpfp.

How many gallons of E85 can I safely add to my 93 to combat timing corrections? 1, 1.5 or 2 gallons?

MHD personally recommended 5 liters to a full tank of my crappy 93. This equates to 1.3 gallons. That has been doing the trick for me thus far.

[Fiesta ST to M240i]

Originally Posted by cooolone2

Again... You got to PAY to play!

Your thinking, that somehow you're going to find a Unicorn and I'm the face of tried and true road pavers who have blown engines and more exploring the thresholds of what works and what doesn't just won't work.

The "knock" is the issue, and it's cause. In your case, it's the octane rating of the fuel you can access. There are other ways to offset knock and prevent it, all cost $ and determination. You could install a Meth Kit too seeing as you already have decided to "tune" and never need the ethanol. But that too comes with it's own levels of annoyance, lol.

Bottom line is if you are going to run maps, you'll need to address fuel consistency as well. E85 allows us to do this to a certain extent if we get into the weeds and test the fuel we are using and then create the proper ratio of the ethanol and non-ethanol fuel to achieve the correct octane for a given map.

See, the combustion cycle is always looking for Stoich, and your octane is important in reaching this as it varies, but the map doesn't and can't know what it might be so makes assumptions. The map will regulate fuel and air and spark during the combustion cycle, again, adjusting those parameters to reach Stoich based upon what the exhaust is telling it what is happening. Adding E85 will increase octane but if the adjustment is not accounted for in the map/tune, it will lean out the combustion cycle. Not a good thing as this lean mixture will run "hotter" than normal and create knock. The knock sensor will cause immediate fuel dumping and timing pull which will kill power. Simple explanation... And is why some boxes tunes are junk, without going into great explanation.

Point is... If you want to play...

Fast/Cheap/Reliable

Pick Only two that you can have... You want FAST, it's not cheap, and usually not reliable, things break. You want cheap, then it won't be fast or reliable, you want reliable, then it's not going to be fast or cheap, lmao.

So buckle down, do some research, set your goals and be realistic about what it takes to obtain them with the expected results on all fronts.

You can easily obtain something like this:

https://petroleumservicecompany.com/...ane-race-fuel/

But again, it's investment and appreciation for what you're trying to do. Lol

Good Luck

I just want reliability and wouldn't mind it being on the cheaper side. Hence my thought of going for a custom tune for <$1k. It's my daily driver so minimal effort is my main goal here. I still need to try running the stage 1 91 octane map and see if it's happy then. If not then it's custom tune, E85 jugs, or maybe even back to stock lol

And as I mentioned earlier, I have access to 260 GT at the pump. I'm sure it's not as good quality as the pails but I've put 2 gallons of that into a tank of 93 and it doesn't clean it up nearly as well as the E85 has.

Originally Posted by JMcLellan

I had been using Shell 93 V power for a while. Then I got MHD and started reviewing the logs to see the timing corrections. Figured I was good with Shell but nope. I am really lucky though. There is a station about 15 minutes away that has 93 octane, E85, and premixed E30 all at the same pump. It's a tuners wet dream.

That is quite literally a wet dream hahahaha I'm jealous!

Originally Posted by ZHP to B58

I stick with Chevron's 91 only and ran the same tunes.

Started adding 2 gallons of E85 then the rest 91 octane and with no other changes, it runs much smoother and pulls harder vs. just 100% filled with Chevron 91.

I'd love to keep trying different gas stations but at some point I feel I have to just give up for the sake of my car going through all these pulls on shit fuel lol

[McBobby Jr]

If you want something convenient to clean up the logs and not have to carry around jugs of E85, I’d use an octane booster like Klotz or Boostane. Both work well and I’ve used both. I see you have a catted downpipe so perhaps the Klotz might be better suited for you long term since it has no MMT. With the Boostane you won’t need much of it to get clean timing, so you might not even need to use their professional 32oz can and just stick with the premium 16oz can. Torco and VP Octanium are good options as well, MMT based but more subdued than Boostane.

[Fiesta ST to M240i]

Originally Posted by McBobby Jr

If you want something convenient to clean up the logs and not have to carry around jugs of E85, I’d use an octane booster like Klotz or Boostane. Both work well and I’ve used both. I see you have a catted downpipe so perhaps the Klotz might be better suited for you long term since it has no MMT. With the Boostane you won’t need much of it to get clean timing, so you might not even need to use their professional 32oz can and just stick with the premium 16oz can. Torco and VP Octanium are good options as well, MMT based but more subdued than Boostane.

hmmm thanks for the insight. Just wonder if that stuff is safe for long term use. Never really looked into them that seriously before.

[Fiesta ST to M240i]

Interesting update. MHD says I have "very, very bad fuel" and Pureboost says my 93 octane logs don't look "that bad". I'm not sure what to believe anymore haha wonder if Pureboost found one of my "cleaner" 93 logs or something as I just sent my profile link to them.

[McBobby Jr]

Originally Posted by Fiesta ST to M240i

hmmm thanks for the insight. Just wonder if that stuff is safe for long term use. Never really looked into them that seriously before.

Both are pretty safe, lots of guys use both. Boostane is a newer product and a bunch of the Hellcat and Mustang guys run it and the Klotz is a much older product and not as popular as the Boostane at least not with sport cars, more so with motorcycles, snow machines, atv’s, etc. The Boostane has some side effects but it’s dependent on how much of it is used relative to the amount of fuel in your tank. It can reduce the spark plug and O2 sensor life and can possibly clog the catalytic converter over time. MMT is an organometallic compound so it’s similar in effect to TEL. The Klotz doesn’t really have any side effects, it’s an aniline based compound (N-Methylaniline) and I’m pretty sure the formula has been used for like 50 years by Klotz. It’s incredibly strong so when putting it in your tank caution must be taken since it will eat your paint instantly. However it’s been shown in a few papers that in volumes of up to 3% in gasoline it can increase RON up to 10 whole numbers or more which is significant.