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      02-04-2023, 03:10 AM   #1
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Difference between several BMW brake pads? Any recommendations?

Looking to get new pads for the M235i so I am revisiting brake pad selection again.

I found a number of OEM Part #'s and as I understand it ALL F22, F30, F87, F80, F82 calipers are the same, just with different mounting points to accommodate larger rotors (370 & 380mm) and therefore all pads are interchangeable (pad shape 1609 for front, 1656 for rear). So the question is, what is the difference between the various pads? I am wanting the most aggressive one....

FRONT:
#1. ALL F22's and some F30's w/ 340mm Brembos: 34116878876
#2. Some F30's w/ 340mm Brembos: 34106878878
#3. ALL F22/F30's w/ 370mm Brembos: 34116865460
#4. ALL F22/F30's w/ 370mm "M Performance" Brembos BBK (kit): 34116878882
#5. ALL M2, M3, and M4 (non-competition): 34112284969

(don't believe F22 ever had factory option of 370mm discs at least in USA)

REAR:
#1: ALL F22/F30's with 345mm Brembos: 34216887576
#2: ALL M2, M3, and M4 (non-cpmpetition): 34218099354


And lastly, a quick brake pad review: I finally toasted the Ferodo DS2500 pads which were AWFUL, significantly less bite, HORRIBLE fade, and dust the same or more than OEM pads. They were horrible from the get-go and only got worse. Terrible, terrible pads, do not recommend for any even moderately aggressive street driving.
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      02-04-2023, 11:17 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abcfgh View Post

And lastly, a quick brake pad review: I finally toasted the Ferodo DS2500 pads which were AWFUL, significantly less bite, HORRIBLE fade, and dust the same or more than OEM pads. They were horrible from the get-go and only got worse. Terrible, terrible pads, do not recommend for any even moderately aggressive street driving.
Where did you buy those pads from? There are a lot of counterfeit ones out on eBay, Amazon and other online sites (the reason why Ferodo has added hologram QR codes to their boxes). The genuine DS2500s give better braking performance than stock BMW pads.
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      02-04-2023, 12:50 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by aerobod View Post
Where did you buy those pads from? There are a lot of counterfeit ones out on eBay, Amazon and other online sites (the reason why Ferodo has added hologram QR codes to their boxes). The genuine DS2500s give better braking performance than stock BMW pads.
I bought them from FCP Euro. Happy to provide a screenshot as proof. They were significantly worse than the stock pads that came in the M235i. I swapped them along with 2-piece Zimmermann rotors. Everything done correctly, they just suck.
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      02-04-2023, 03:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abcfgh View Post
I bought them from FCP Euro. Happy to provide a screenshot as proof. They were significantly worse than the stock pads that came in the M235i. I swapped them along with 2-piece Zimmermann rotors. Everything done correctly, they just suck.
Did you bed the pads to the Ferodo instructions, otherwise both rotor and pad wear will be excessive, together with sub-optimal braking?

The DS2500 pads I have for a non-BMW have the following warning on the bedding-in instructions:

"IMPORTANT: to optimize the performance and life of both brake pads and discs, during the bedding-in period heat in the braking system should be built up progressively"

I have found the DS2500s to be good for mixed road and moderate track day use. For hard track day use and minimal road use the DS1.11 are a better choice. The DS2500s don't brake as well as the stock BMW pads until they are warm in my experience, but are then significantly better, assuming they have been bedded in properly.
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      02-04-2023, 06:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abcfgh View Post
So the question is, what is the difference between the various pads? I am wanting the most aggressive one....

FRONT:
#1. ALL F22's and some F30's w/ 340mm Brembos: 34116878876
#2. Some F30's w/ 340mm Brembos: 34106878878
#3. ALL F22/F30's w/ 370mm Brembos: 34116865460
#4. ALL F22/F30's w/ 370mm "M Performance" Brembos BBK (kit): 34116878882
#5. ALL M2, M3, and M4 (non-competition): 34112284969
If it was me, I'd start with #5, as those cars are the ones requiring greater stopping power. If that pad met your needs, you'd be done. I wonder how much difference there is likely to be among the first four on your list.

The best means of answering your question, I suspect, is to buy one of each and test them against each other. That surely wouldn't be worth the trouble, though.

I ran #1 briefly and not remotely aggressively, and #4 the same except for one full-on 80-45 speed reduction on an interstate, at which it performed just as I needed it to.

The pad I ran the most is a Hawk DTC-70 race pad. It met my needs on the track and on a few occasions on back roads after I'd made an effort to get some heat into them before leaning hard on the car. Driving them on the street was very noisy unless I worked to keep the noise down.

If you're asking a lot of your heavy, high-HP car on back roads (or on the track), you might take a look at comparisons like these to see what could best suit your needs:

https://www.essexparts.com/brake-pads/ferodo-brake-pads

https://www.racetechnologies.com/brake-pad-comparison



One thing to keep in mind with our cars is that when pushed hard they ask quite a bit of their braking components. That results in a lot of heat, and lesser pads will not be able to keep up under those conditions.

Not knowing where you live, where you drive, or how you drive, this is what I found myself dealing with regarding the limitations in our car's braking systems:

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1670372

As always, my 2¢; and, please, take it for what it's worth.
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Last edited by dradernh; 02-04-2023 at 06:31 PM..
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      02-04-2023, 07:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerobod View Post
Did you bed the pads to the Ferodo instructions, otherwise both rotor and pad wear will be excessive, together with sub-optimal braking?

The DS2500 pads I have for a non-BMW have the following warning on the bedding-in instructions:

"IMPORTANT: to optimize the performance and life of both brake pads and discs, during the bedding-in period heat in the braking system should be built up progressively"

I have found the DS2500s to be good for mixed road and moderate track day use. For hard track day use and minimal road use the DS1.11 are a better choice. The DS2500s don't brake as well as the stock BMW pads until they are warm in my experience, but are then significantly better, assuming they have been bedded in properly.
Yes they were bedded in properly. I even had my girlfriend drive gently for a few hundred miles and then tried to rebed them a couple times. They were pretty awful compared to the stock pads that came in the car.
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      02-04-2023, 07:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post

One thing to keep in mind with our cars is that when pushed hard they ask quite a bit of their braking components. That results in a lot of heat, and lesser pads will not be able to keep up under those conditions.

Not knowing where you live, where you drive, or how you drive, this is what I found myself dealing with regarding the limitations in our car's braking systems:

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1670372

As always, my 2¢; and, please, take it for what it's worth.
I drive pretty aggressively and I'm hard on the brakes, but I know the feeling of pad fade (less stopping power) and fluid fade (pedal goes lower). I've boiled brake fluid before on another car and don't want that to happen again so I play it pretty safe and always find myself managing the brakes if driving aggressively. I live in SoCal so temperatures are reasonably warm.

I don't think I'll use Ferodo again since the DS2500 were such a disappointment. #5 should be a good choice, but I wonder about #4 which comes in the BMW performance brake kit. If only we could know the coefficient of friction (mu) graph for the OEM pads so we could actually compare them to other aftermarket pads. Egh
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      02-04-2023, 07:33 PM   #8
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By the way, does anyone have a preferred jack pad adapter for BMW's? Is there more than one size?
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      02-04-2023, 09:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abcfgh View Post
Yes they were bedded in properly. I even had my girlfriend drive gently for a few hundred miles and then tried to rebed them a couple times. They were pretty awful compared to the stock pads that came in the car.
There must have been something wrong with your pads relative to the normal expectations of the DS2500s, even perhaps mislabeled pads instead of the correct FCP4611H front and FCP4663H rear fitment.

We have quite a number of people using them on a variety of cars in our track club, no one I know has compared their capabilities to less than stock pads, that isn’t my experience either. People I know who use them compare them to being similar to the Pagid RS29s, both pads being a good compromise for aggressive road and track day use before going to a dedicated track pad and swapping back to different pads for road use.

My M240i that my son is going to track this season will run Ferodo DS1.11, but he is prepared to swap pads as required, instead of running the DS2500s for general use.

If you haven’t turned the blue paint a nasty shade of green on the stock brake calipers on the M235i, then it is unlikely the temperature limit of the DS2500s has been reached. There is a possibility that poor high temp braking could be due to limits of the brake fluid, too. The only point they have less braking than the stock pads in my experience is when the rotors are cold, but a single stop from 120km/h is enough to get better performance from the DS2500s than stock pads once the rotors have heated up a bit.
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      02-04-2023, 09:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerobod View Post
There must have been something wrong with your pads relative to the normal expectations of the DS2500s, even perhaps mislabeled pads instead of the correct FCP4611H front and FCP4663H rear fitment.

We have quite a number of people using them on a variety of cars in our track club, no one I know has compared their capabilities to less than stock pads, that isn’t my experience either. People I know who use them compare them to being similar to the Pagid RS29s, both pads being a good compromise for aggressive road and track day use before going to a dedicated track pad and swapping back to different pads for road use.

My M240i that my son is going to track this season will run Ferodo DS1.11, but he is prepared to swap pads as required, instead of running the DS2500s for general use.

If you haven’t turned the blue paint a nasty shade of green on the stock brake calipers on the M235i, then it is unlikely the temperature limit of the DS2500s has been reached. There is a possibility that poor high temp braking could be due to limits of the brake fluid, too. The only point they have less braking than the stock pads in my experience is when the rotors are cold, but a single stop from 120km/h is enough to get better performance from the DS2500s than stock pads once the rotors have heated up a bit.
I was surprised and extremely disappointed as well. I don't know what to say. Maybe it has something to do with the new limits for copper in brake pads (max 5%) beginning January 1st, 2021? All I can definitely say is that they SUCKED immediately, faded IMMENSELY, and only continued to get worse with age! The brake fluid (nothing fancy, I don't remember which brand/model) was swapped at the same time the pads and rotors were installed. I'm also not sure if the pads are to blame for warped rotors or run-out in the rotor. I'm not tracking the car and I'm always managing brakes. The calipers are super dirty currently and look black, but I'm guessing that they just need a good deep clean. I've seen photos of cooked ones and don't think mine look like that nor was I heating the braking system that hard.

On the other hand, maybe there's just something wrong with my braking system/calipers? But the difference was clear and immediate from the moment the new pads were installed. It felt like crap and as the temps would get higher, it would only feel crappier.
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      02-04-2023, 10:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abcfgh View Post
I was surprised and extremely disappointed as well. I don't know what to say. Maybe it has something to do with the new limits for copper in brake pads (max 5%) beginning January 1st, 2021? All I can definitely say is that they SUCKED immediately, faded IMMENSELY, and only continued to get worse with age! The brake fluid (nothing fancy, I don't remember which brand/model) was swapped at the same time the pads and rotors were installed. I'm also not sure if the pads are to blame for warped rotors or run-out in the rotor. I'm not tracking the car and I'm always managing brakes. The calipers are super dirty currently and look black, but I'm guessing that they just need a good deep clean. I've seen photos of cooked ones and don't think mine look like that nor was I heating the braking system that hard.

On the other hand, maybe there's just something wrong with my braking system/calipers? But the difference was clear and immediate from the moment the new pads were installed. It felt like crap and as the temps would get higher, it would only feel crappier.
Thinking about it, your use pattern may not be aggressive enough enough of the time to avoid pad glazing, that would give the impression of pad fade and lead to poor braking. I just took out the bedding instructions for the DS2500 spare set I have for my track car, 25 to 30 stops at 50% of max braking for 4 seconds at a time would correlate to about a 25m/s (90km/h or 55mph) speed drop at 0.65g. Therefore bedding would need at least 25x 80 to 25mph stops to be competed, followed by not too much gentle use such as when commuting, to avoid removing all the even pad deposits and leaving the right conditions for glazing if they are then used aggressively again.
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Last edited by aerobod; 02-04-2023 at 10:37 PM..
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      02-04-2023, 10:25 PM   #12
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I know how to bed in pads. I know that driving gently will remove the pad deposits hence letting my girlfriend driving it nice and gently for a week or two, then rebedding. I didn't realize these had a thermal paint temperature markers. I can check those when pulling them out next week.
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      02-04-2023, 10:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abcfgh View Post
I know how to bed in pads. I know that driving gently will remove the pad deposits hence letting my girlfriend driving it nice and gently for a week or two, then rebedding. I didn't realize these had a thermal paint temperature markers. I can check those when pulling them out next week.
Just as a reference of how hot these pads can get when working well, I have melted the plastic tabs on my rear wheel centre caps in the past on my track car, so I ensure that I remove any caps before track use, now.

Also, besides the initial bedding and loss of the pad deposits from it, pad glazing is also a problem that may not be solvable with a re-bed, although pad sanding before a re-bed may work.
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      02-05-2023, 12:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerobod View Post
Just as a reference of how hot these pads can get when working well, I have melted the plastic tabs on my rear wheel centre caps in the past on my track car, so I ensure that I remove any caps before track use, now.

Also, besides the initial bedding and loss of the pad deposits from it, pad glazing is also a problem that may not be solvable with a re-bed, although pad sanding before a re-bed may work.
Nice, haven't heard of melting center caps before haha
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      02-08-2023, 08:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerobod View Post
The DS2500s don't brake as well as the stock BMW pads until they are warm in my experience, but are then significantly better, assuming they have been bedded in properly.
This is the reason I gave up on the DS2500 for street use. They were great once I'd driven a mile or two and they had some heat in them. But backing down my sloped driveway was a little unnerving when they were stone cold. Kept thinking I was going to back right into my neighbor kids GTI parked across the street.

Oddly, even though true track pads are supposed to be worse when cold, they have so much friction to spare they worked better when cold then the DS2500's. At least summer 'cold'. I use the stock BMW pads in the winter, even though I'm not fond of their grabby behavior at slow speeds.
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      02-08-2023, 08:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggggbmw View Post
This is the reason I gave up on the DS2500 for street use. They were great once I'd driven a mile or two and they had some heat in them. But backing down my sloped driveway was a little unnerving when they were stone cold. Kept thinking I was going to back right into my neighbor kids GTI parked across the street.

Oddly, even though true track pads are supposed to be worse when cold, they have so much friction to spare they worked better when cold then the DS2500's. At least summer 'cold'. I use the stock BMW pads in the winter, even though I'm not fond of their grabby behavior at slow speeds.
If only that were my experience. Gets progressively worse with heat. They warped my rotors too, which were swapped along with the pads.
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      02-16-2023, 05:49 PM   #17
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I run the Hawk HPS 5.0. No track use, but well spirited. Good pads, better bite than stock and zero fade after heavy use. Less dusting too. One note however, they sing (or rather squeal like a pig) when cold. Once warmed up though, very good pad for the money.
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      02-16-2023, 06:20 PM   #18
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Yeah I've tried the Hawk HPS 5.0 before on a 328i and they were okay, but I'd prefer something more aggressive though with more heat capability. Also ran EBC Yellow Stuff pads on a Hyundai Sonata a long time ago lol which also worked well...for about 7k miles hahaha.
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      02-28-2023, 10:26 AM   #19
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I use EBC pads on my car

They offer top-quality products and a lot of options for different applications.
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      06-14-2023, 10:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abcfgh View Post
Yeah I've tried the Hawk HPS 5.0 before on a 328i and they were okay, but I'd prefer something more aggressive though with more heat capability. Also ran EBC Yellow Stuff pads on a Hyundai Sonata a long time ago lol which also worked well...for about 7k miles hahaha.
Hey, what pad option did you end up going with? Can you share your experience? I'm looking to stay with good OE pads since I won't see track. Just aggressive street use. It would be nice to know if the M pads are any better than stock M240i pads.
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      01-21-2024, 06:43 PM   #21
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Hey, what pad option did you end up going with? Can you share your experience? I'm looking to stay with good OE pads since I won't see track. Just aggressive street use. It would be nice to know if the M pads are any better than stock M240i pads.
I ended up just going OEM pads & rotors and they've been great. I previously had the Ferodo DS2500 which were worse in every single way (noise when cold, dust, fade resistance, bite, you name it!) than the OEM M235i pads.

If I were to do it again, I'd go with the M2 pad for slightly more bite and better fade resistance as I am an aggressive driver. Or if I wanted even more bite and had aspirations of a trackday, I'd definitely get the Hawk HP+ pads. I tried those on my buddy's F87 M2 and they had huge bite, could handle pretty high temps, and good fade resistance. On track, if you're fast they will fade as well, but are pretty decent. The Hawk HP+ just squeal a lot, especially when cold, but I don't mind....I value stopping more!

I think the OEM M235i pads are a nice balance, you just need to "manage" them if you start going above like 6.5-7/10th's type of advanced group pace. My buddy has an F87 M2 and the stock pads held up fine on 300 treadwear rubber at a trackday. By held up, I mean they didn't completely fade out, although they were basically disintegrated afterwards lol. So I think the stock M2 pads are perfect for agro driving in the canyons where you might hover around 8/10th's pace.

ALSO, just a general word of advice I've learned over the last couple years that has made a difference. Make sure you really give your rotors a chance to come up to temperature gradually and you will drastically reduce the chances of warping your rotors. It was so apparent with the Ferodo DS2500 pads, that if I'd slow down aggressively after driving for 30 minutes without brakes (so brakes totally cold) on the highway, you would feel shimmy/warpage in the pedal. If you gradually brought them up to temp, it would do this less so or not at all, depending on how hard you're braking.

And lastly, I've always done this, but if your brakes are really cooking it's a good idea to drive round for a few minutes gently to let them cool off so pad deposits don't get melted onto the rotor. Alternatively, if you must come to a stop at a light or wherever with them extremely hot, stick the car in neutral (use e-brake if needed on a hill) as being off of the brake pedal with the brake pad/rotor not moving will help prevent pad deposits on the rotor.
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