[Nickies]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Looking at this another way, why would BMW put an LSD in a non-M 2 Series car?

The LSD case on M2 cars is different from the MP. There is no possible confusion here.

[Nickies]

Originally Posted by msej449

@Bmwhead Yes, this is a difficult issue and why forums like this are very useful. Dealers do not always know the fine detail of a specific model, year, country version and standard vs retro-fit parts and this is often confused when BMW change the part numbers and options.

As @aerobod says, there are tests you can do, but the feedback from similar topics is that for someone who isn't mechanically adept (like me) the results can be ambiguous. So I think the consensus is to try and read the label if at all possible.

On other threads, people have reported that they were able to slide their mobile phone into the space between the top of the differential and the body of the car. Others have said they used a selfie-stick with the phone on a timer on the end, and others a mirror. And as I mentioned, if you know someone with a lift that suspends the car on its jacking points, then that may drop the wheels enough to get to the space above the differential.

Really, once you have the differential part number off the label, your situation should be much clearer.

Can you confirm that you have an automatic?

Your car is a EU MY 2016 M235i and the observations of the OP are based on a US MY 2019 LCI M240i. What was standard when you car has been produced may have been different 3 years after.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Nickies

The LSD case on M2 cars is different from the MP. There is no possible confusion here.

The M2 is a part of the conversation only in that we know BMW installs LSDs in them at the factory.

What I'm wondering is this: why would BMW install LSDs in any non-M 2 Series models in North America?

Coming to this fresh, my answer would be that BMW wouldn't do that, as it isn't in the habit of giving things away. I don't mind being proven wrong, though!

[Bmwhead]

As the debate has progressed, thanks to the contributions of everyone with a high level of knowledge of the vehicle, I would like to draw some conclusions:

- Due to the clutch system used in the M Performance differential, the only way to know with complete certainty if we have an open differential or LSD is by looking at the label, which is very difficult to access. Other verification systems may exist but they are inaccurate or require too high a tool and qualification.

- If we consider that, according to the internal database of BMW (and by extension of Realoem) it has been manufactured with LSD, it would be a "gift" that has not been advertised anywhere and of which until now it seems that no one had been Realized, it seems really strange to me.

- But it also seems very strange to me that a brand of reputed reliability and quality in its management such as BMW tells us that we have a component installed that we don't really have, this option seems just as crazy as the previous one.

Honestly, I am in a situation that I no longer know what to think, I would like to know the opinion of the rest of the participants and for which option do you lean more.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Bmwhead

Honestly, I am in a situation that I no longer know what to think, I would like to know the opinion of the rest of the participants and for which option do you lean more.

As others stated, BMW doesn't give anything away for free, unless it's an official part of a package..

If you or anyone else did not physically install an LSD equipped diff, then by process of elimination, you have an open unit, since the LSD pumpkin is still listed as an aftersale option for over $2,500, even for a 2021 M240i.

RealOEM.com is flooded with mistakes and confusion, don't believe the hype.



M240i auto 8 OEM open diff: 33107603760

M240i auto 8 MP LSD diff: 33108659989


M240i manual open diff: 33107599411

M240i manual MP LSD diff: 33108659987

The End.


[COLOR="DarkRed"]To determine the type of differential (open or LSD) you currently have, the sticker on the unit list just the last seven digits of the specific part number (ignore the revision code after the "-" dash).[/COLOR]:

[Nickies]

Originally Posted by Poochie

As others stated, BMW doesn't give anything away for free, unless it's an official part of a package..

If you or anyone else did not physically install an LSD equipped diff, then by process of elimination, you have an open unit, since the LSD pumpkin is still listed as an aftersale option for over $2,500, even for a 2021 M240i.

RealOEM.com is flooded with mistakes and confusion, don't believe the hype.



M240i auto 8 OEM open diff: 33107603760

M240i auto 8 MP LSD diff: 33108659989

The End.

How is your reference related to MY2019 M240i RWD as per the original OP post? What is your info source?

Do I have to remember you this is part of a transmission package only for RWD?

Read carefully about REALOEM and enter your own serial number.

Of course, the unit is still available for sale everywhere for those who want to buy one to upgrade their MT6.

I really don't care about what I have or don't have because my car is just a DD and the only thing I need is the power to drive over the long mountains stretches in the Northwest.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Nickies

Read carefully about REALOEM and enter your own serial number.

Of

Hmm..

Listen, if anyone actually want facts and not to argue, here it is.

Feel free to check my work..

[Bmwhead]

Originally Posted by Poochie

As others stated, BMW doesn't give anything away for free, unless it's an official part of a package..

If you or anyone else did not physically install an LSD equipped diff, then by process of elimination, you have an open unit, since the LSD pumpkin is still listed as an aftersale option for over $2,500, even for a 2021 M240i.

RealOEM.com is flooded with mistakes and confusion, don't believe the hype.



M240i auto 8 OEM open diff: 33107603760

M240i auto 8 MP LSD diff: 33108659989


M240i manual open diff: 33107599411

M240i manual MP LSD diff: 33108659987

The End.


To determine the type of differential (open or LSD) you currently have, the sticker on the unit list just the last seven digits of the specific part number (ignore the revision code after the "-" dash).:

Thanks for the complete compilation work, everything you say makes sense and it is very possible that Realoem contains errors, but how do you explain that according to internal information from BMW my car and Nickies have LSD mounted? We have verified this by contacting official BMW workshops but it is very likely that if other owners contacted they would do so with the same result. During the call they told me that I could not install LSD as I already had it, they only had the reference 33108659987 for 6MT, in the call I made insisting more on the clarification the person in charge of the workshop told me, by way of example, that if the car entered In the workshop for a repair due to an accident, the part that I would order for my car would be 33108659989, because according to the official BMW database (whose information comes directly from Germany) it is the only differential available for my car.

Between the two possible options, a gift from BMW or an error in its management, right now I think the second option is more likely, but I find it really strange. I will try to check the label to help clarify the debate but that complicated operation without the proper means.

[msej449]

Originally Posted by Nickies

Can you confirm that you have an automatic?

Your car is a EU MY 2016 M235i and the observations of the OP are based on a US MY 2019 LCI M240i. What was standard when you car has been produced may have been different 3 years after.

Yes, it's an automatic. You'll see that in my earlier comments, I did say that it was important to appreciate that there are differenes across countries, models and years. THat's why I recommended reading the actual part number off the unit and getting that part number checked by a local BMW dealer's parts department.

This topic has cropped-up repeatedly across a number of 2 Series UK, European and US Forums and in every case, the conclusion has been that no M Performance 2 series has ever left the factory fitted with an LSD. In the USA, there is an option to retro-fit one before initial customer delivery. And it's entirely possible that a dealer or a national distributor offers the option to retro-fit an LSD before delivery as well. Emphasising the point that to be certain you need to check the unit's part number.

My own dealer has a dealer-specific option to retro-fit all the M Performance parts (excluding LSD) before delivery at cost. I imagine this will cause a lot of confusion when they come to be re-sold in later years.

Sadly, BMW never thought to stamp or cast the unique MP LSD casing with a visible indicator - something like 'MP/LSD' on the visible side would have been very useful.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Bmwhead

Thanks for the complete compilation work, everything you say makes sense and it is very possible that Realoem contains errors, but how do you explain that according to internal information from BMW my car and Nickies have LSD mounted? We have verified this by contacting official BMW workshops but it is very likely that if other owners contacted they would do so with the same result. During the call they told me that I could not install LSD as I already had it, they only had the reference 33108659987 for 6MT, in the call I made insisting more on the clarification the person in charge of the workshop told me, by way of example, that if the car entered In the workshop for a repair due to an accident, the part that I would order for my car would be 33108659989, because according to the official BMW database (whose information comes directly from Germany) it is the only differential available for my car.

Between the two possible options, a gift from BMW or an error in its management, right now I think the second option is more likely, but I find it really strange. I will try to check the label to help clarify the debate but that complicated operation without the proper means.

Shops, even an official dealer makes mistakes all the time.. It might sound asinine or maybe a little arrogant to say out loud but some of us here have way more knowledge about these vehicles than any franchise dealership or repair center, outside of maybe a BMW Field Engineer, ever will. #TrueStory

The dealer in the NJ that had installed my LSD when I had a 235i, told me that they were well-versed in installing limited slip diffs because they "just added one to an M5." I then retorted by explaining to him that an M5 comes standard with an advance electronic LSD, he denied this and kept on gaslighting me, insisting he installed an M Performance LSD in a brand new 2016 M5!

Notice in the photo below they list my car as an 'automatic transmission' for a manual MP LSD differential part number: 33108659987 (I had a manual, not an automatic).

Another SA at the same dealership told when I asked about the M2 CS that it's just "a regular M2 with a Dinantronics piggyback but BMW doesn't want to tell anyone that."

Sometimes when pick up a new car, I have to sit there and teach the BMW Genius they assign me how the iDrive and BMW vehicles in general works. Last time, the Genius was so amazed that BMWs can play DVDs. I don't mind, it's the only way they really learn about BMWs

Point being, I could spend all night calling out the inaccuracies I encountered from dealers and repair centers and I just smirk because I know the truth.

I'm 100,000,000% sure that if you or previous owner did not install an MP LSD pumpkin, BMW did not give you a $2,500 accessory, gratis, out the goodness of their heart and not even mention it.

The repair shop is mistaken, they are probably conflating the Active Differential Braking or "e-diff," which was stated on the vehicle's original literature as a feature but that's obviously not an actual mechanical LSD unit.

It happens but at this juncture, it makes no sense going around in circles and arguing the point; just jack up your car and take a picture of the part number on the diff pumpkin and this will put the debate to rest.

I look forward to your response.


M-Performance Differential for M235i https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1582784

Part number for the M LSD? https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1423890


M Performance LSD models? 33108659987 vs 33107555610 https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1237605

https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/s...-m235i.814767/

[ggggbmw]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Would posting a video of this prove it to you?

Why, yes it would. So I'm posting my video. XutvJet I know your posts, so I believed you and was starting to doubt my memory.

aerobod once again, the technical specifics in your posts were they key piece of information missing. Specifically this: "the transmission has to be in neutral, parking brake off " (The engineer in me loves your details.)

Well, I have an automatic. And by default, the car is always in park when the engine is off. The ZF8 does that automatically. (My wife would love that pun....) Can't put the ZF8 in neutral without special procedures when the car is off. XutvJet I believe you have a manual, and I'm guessing you were testing with your transmission in neutral.

I've been a bit busy and hadn't switched out my snow tires yet, so I thought today would be a good day to jack up the car and find out exactly what was going on while I swapped tires.

Here's the video:

So, we're both right. But without aerobod's critical bit of information, I was sort of wrong too.

The key thing is that for the 'spin the wheels to see if it's an LSD' test to work, you have to test with the car in neutral. With the car in park, as the 8AT would normally be when the car is jacked up, the LSD behaves like the standard open differential. I'm guessing if you had the manual transmission in gear, and did the test, you would see the same opposite spin.

[Bmwhead]

Poochie, indeed the salespeople and Genius of the dealerships have basic knowledge, they are workers and in many cases not fans with so much interest in cars, a real fan will always have more information because they enjoy their passion. In any case, your examples are valid for M235i, which according to Realoem did equip open differential as standard, optionally LSD. I also want to remind you that the alleged presence of LSD in M240i RWD AUT8 LCI is not based on an opinion, it is based on the official database of BMW in Germany.

ggggbmw thank you very much for the video, I will try to carry out the test although I do not easily have the means, if any owner of M240i RWD AUT8 LCI could do it, it would also be of great help to continue clarifying this matter.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Bmwhead

Poochie, indeed the salespeople and Genius of the dealerships have basic knowledge, they are workers and in many cases not fans with so much interest in cars, a real fan will always have more information because they enjoy their passion. In any case, your examples are valid for M235i, which according to Realoem did equip open differential as standard, optionally LSD. I also want to remind you that the alleged presence of LSD in M240i RWD AUT8 LCI is not based on an opinion, it is based on the official database of BMW in Germany.

Even if our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ came back down to earth and told me that BMW gave him an inclusive LSD on his auto LCI M240i, I still wouldn't believe it, so excuse my skepticism..

It's goes against basic logic and modus operandi BMW is known for; ain't nothing free in this world..

Errors are made all the time on these online sites, I've highlighted a couple of examples and now has ran out ways convincing you any further, so now it's now on you to confirm this fact for your yourself.

I suggest instead of the questionable wheel spinning test, just wedge your phone above the diff sticker and grab a picture, you'll then be able to confirm this for yourself, I already know the answer.

I also want to note, I'm not trying to burst anyone's bubble, if you have an LSD included, then more power to you! Just merely helping you guys clarifying facts from fiction, that's all.

[Bmwhead]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Even if our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ came back down to earth and told me that BMW gave him an inclusive LSD on his auto LCI M240i, I still wouldn't believe it, so excuse my skepticism..

It's goes against basic logic and modus operandi BMW is known for; ain't nothing free in this world..

Errors are made all the time on these online sites, I've highlighted a couple of examples and now has ran out ways convincing you any further, so now it's now on you to confirm this fact for your yourself.

I suggest instead of the questionable wheel spinning test, just wedge your phone above the diff sticker and grab a picture, you'll then be able to confirm this for yourself, I already know the answer.

I also want to note, I'm not trying to burst anyone's bubble, if you have an LSD included, then more power to you! Just merely helping you guys clarifying facts from fiction, that's all.

I think exactly the same, it seems very strange that BMW includes equipment and does not announce it, it is possible that Realoem makes a mistake but I find it very strange that the internal information of BMW contains them, also it is not generic information about the model, it is data that indicates me with my VIN number. As I have said before, I will try to carry out the indicated checks in order to have the maximum information and draw certain conclusions.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by ggggbmw

Why, yes it would. So I'm posting my video. XutvJet I know your posts, so I believed you and was starting to doubt my memory.

aerobod once again, the technical specifics in your posts were they key piece of information missing. Specifically this: "the transmission has to be in neutral, parking brake off " (The engineer in me loves your details.)

Well, I have an automatic. And by default, the car is always in park when the engine is off. The ZF8 does that automatically. (My wife would love that pun....) Can't put the ZF8 in neutral without special procedures when the car is off. XutvJet I believe you have a manual, and I'm guessing you were testing with your transmission in neutral.

I've been a bit busy and hadn't switched out my snow tires yet, so I thought today would be a good day to jack up the car and find out exactly what was going on while I swapped tires.

Here's the video:

So, we're both right. But without aerobod's critical bit of information, I was sort of wrong too.

The key thing is that for the 'spin the wheels to see if it's an LSD' test to work, you have to test with the car in neutral. With the car in park, as the 8AT would normally be when the car is jacked up, the LSD behaves like the standard open differential. I'm guessing if you had the manual transmission in gear, and did the test, you would see the same opposite spin.

Thanks for posting the video. So there we have it, simply jack up the rear of your M240 8AT RWD and put the car in neutral while running. If the tires spin in the same direction, you have an LSD. If it's an open differential, they will spin in the opposite direction like every other open diff that's out there.

I'm not convinced about photographing the sticker because mine came off years ago.

Lastly, as others noted, BMW doesn't give out anything for free. Hell, they charge you $800 just to remove the speed limiter on the new M3/M4. They sure as hell aren't giving out high quality Drexler-built $2,500+ LSDs out of the goodness of their heart.

[aemreisl]

I use 2019 m240i xdrive with quaife lsd diff. It makes a very nice difference, especially on the track. i use xdelete to drift. Very effective, feels the same as my old m4

[oopy]

At the risk of a holy batshit thread revival, I stumbled across this thread and found it intriguing without any proper closure.

Safe to assume that realoem has a lot of inconsistencies around actual diff part numbers that went into car builds.

For those with m140/m240 auto's confirmed with LSDs from factory do you know the actual part number of the diffs supplied? A search on 3310760359-04 seems to suggest this diff was used across numerous F3x cars as well but most are reporting that they are open diffs.

In regard to BMW not stating they started supplying certain vehicles with LSDs could be quite simple - supply/availability of parts on hand, substitution with what's available at build time without actually changing the base configuration spec. (The cost between open and clutch pack diffs at time of manufacture isn't as massive as buying them aftermarket, so the "losses" in not delaying builds could far outweigh waiting for the correct parts)

Keen to see some closure on this, TIA

[XutvJet]

BMW changes parts numbers all the time. BMW doesn't install any LSDs as OEM in the 2 series cars except the M2. The LSDs are a port installed option. Simple as that. Those that think they got an LSD from factory are kidding themselves and have no idea how much different these cars behave with an LSD out back. BMW isn't putting in a high quality LSD just because they had extra differentials laying around. With the stock open diff in Sport+, Traction, or DSC Off modes, the car isn't a peg leg, one tire fire kind of car thanks to the traction control system trying to emulate an LSD. That's why some folks thing their car has an LSD. A true LSD equipped 2 series behaves far differently under hard acceleration, turns, and even braking.

[JMcLellan]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

BMW changes parts numbers all the time. BMW doesn't install any LSDs as OEM in the 2 series cars except the M2. The LSDs are a port installed option. Simple as that. Those that think they got an LSD from factory are kidding themselves and have no idea how much different these cars behave with an LSD out back. BMW isn't putting in a high quality LSD just because they had extra differentials laying around. With the stock open diff in Sport+, Traction, or DSC Off modes, the car isn't a peg leg, one tire fire kind of car thanks to the traction control system trying to emulate an LSD. That's why some folks thing their car has an LSD. A true LSD equipped 2 series behaves far differently under hard acceleration, turns, and even braking.

Piling on here as someone who did extensive research trying to determine if my M240i RWD had a port-installed LSD. I jacked the car up and spun the wheels to see which way they spun, I looked at the diff housing to see if there was a tag, etc.....all the things. I ended up buying the M Perf LSD and having it installed. Completely transformed the car and solidified the assumption my car had an open diff prior to the LSD.

[oopy]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

BMW changes parts numbers all the time. BMW doesn't install any LSDs as OEM in the 2 series cars except the M2. The LSDs are a port installed option. Simple as that. Those that think they got an LSD from factory are kidding themselves and have no idea how much different these cars behave with an LSD out back. BMW isn't putting in a high quality LSD just because they had extra differentials laying around. With the stock open diff in Sport+, Traction, or DSC Off modes, the car isn't a peg leg, one tire fire kind of car thanks to the traction control system trying to emulate an LSD. That's why some folks thing their car has an LSD. A true LSD equipped 2 series behaves far differently under hard acceleration, turns, and even braking.

Quite possibly, but don't think we should entirely rule out the possibility without confirming first. Often owners don't have a point of reference so can't really tell what the open diff or lsd should feel like. Here is another scenario, there are cars out there with the s999a build option and these cars buck the trend of what the default configuration for the intended market should be (mine for example is one of the only 340i's down under without a harman kardon sound system).

I tried the wheel spin test but when jacked in neutral the wheels are already spinning by themselves, so this test may specifically require the transmission to be warmed up? Will give it another go over the weekend and report back.

[oopy]

Originally Posted by JMcLellan

Piling on here as someone who did extensive research trying to determine if my M240i RWD had a port-installed LSD. I jacked the car up and spun the wheels to see which way they spun, I looked at the diff housing to see if there was a tag, etc.....all the things. I ended up buying the M Perf LSD and having it installed. Completely transformed the car and solidified the assumption my car had an open diff prior to the LSD.

Thanks for confirming, did you by any chance get the part number for your specific diff?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by oopy

Quite possibly, but don't think we should entirely rule out the possibility without confirming first. Often owners don't have a point of reference so can't really tell what the open diff or lsd should feel like. Here is another scenario, there are cars out there with the s999a build option and these cars buck the trend of what the default configuration for the intended market should be (mine for example is one of the only 340i's down under without a harman kardon sound system).

I tried the wheel spin test but when jacked in neutral the wheels are already spinning by themselves, so this test may specifically require the transmission to be warmed up? Will give it another go over the weekend and report back.

BMW isn't in the business of giving out freebies, especially an LSD built by Drexler (not a cheap LSD in the least). These LSD differentials weren't even in the factories the cars were built. All M235/240/335/340/435/440 were built with a open diff and then the LSD was installed at port when the car arrived at its respective country. Same goes for any of the other M Performance parts the car was spec'd with. These parts reside in an entirely different facility from the factory and are shipped to the ports or dealers.