[Sneedis]

Originally Posted by menncars

You're on a highway in an AWD vehicle surrounded by vehicles with 2WD. The car in front of you crashes into another car in front of him. What happens? You wait around for hours while they clear the wreck. You now magically move to a RWD vehicle and ...... Wait around forever for them to clear the wreck.

Every maker of car plays the same game showing you a more expensive version (ie AWD) of the same car getting out of trouble in some sort of 'wintery' condition. Problem with that? No other cars are in the commercial. Fantasy land.

RWD is fine. xDrive is fine. Neither make a significant in winter though. The idiot in a 2003 Civic on bald All-seasons who can't wait 30 minutes to get home and Twitter himself to death and is about to plow into your rear bumper is the problem. I'm not afraid of winter in any vehicle and neither are you. You mention you get a lot of snow so you know how to drive in it. You know as well as I, the weather isn't scary, it's other drivers who are scary. No option on any car would fix that.

I get what you're saying and I don't disagree, but I think my thought process was that I would like to enjoy my car for all 12 months of the year. Now that doesn't mean I couldn't drive a RWD car during the winter. But I think ultimately I would enjoy it a bit less, be less confident, and overall I think I'd be a less capable driver. I don't want to stress over the drive to work on a Monday morning after a big snowfall.

I guess I already knew the answer to this question when I made the thread. xDrive is a bit of a compromise. Maybe a little more...livable in the winter, a little less fun in the summer. But with only one car, I think this probably makes the most sense for me. The cost difference vs RWD wasn't really a huge concern.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by Sneedis

. . .. The cost difference vs RWD wasn't really a huge concern.

That is true. A few years ago, it was murder to go with xDrive. On a 2/3 series I think it was a 4k delta and on a 4 series it was a 5k delta. I think the delta is around 2k currently. A bit high but not over the top. I was looking at a Ford something-or-other and it was about a $1500 delta for AWD. And after driving both a 2015 320i and 328i xDrive for about 5 weeks, at least for me, it was a lot better than either the e46 or e90 AWD models. If your first experience with xDrive was later model F-series cars, your impression is likely to be far more favourable than in previous series.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by Joe240

As much as you are correct about other drivers being the ones to worry about, AWD provides much better traction even with slush on the ground and you're trying to go up hill, or when you hit black ice while doing 30 down the highway in the middle of a snow storm. The point of spending more for the AWD model is so you aren't the cause of an accident, and not just with another vehicle but with sliding off the road in a corner (even going slow). The ignorance level in your post is scary.

Your ignorance of physics is scary.

I don't want to jack the thread here and get into the AWD vs. Any-other-wheel drive debate but if BMW doesn't say that xDrive gives you more traction or safety over other systems, who would be willing to contradict the manufacturer about features of their own car? BMW says

"The BMW all-wheel drive system, xDrive, ensures your BMW has the best possible traction at all times, enhancing agility and keeping you safely on track, even on fast bends. "

How keenly vague since 50% of the cars BMW makes include both RWD and now FWD drive vehicles (like the new X1). What would BMW say

"Hey sucker, bought one of our expensive M cars? Too bad it's less safe than xDrive."

or

"All wheel drive is at least twice as safe as other kinds of drive systems, obviously. So please don't sue us if you have an accident. It's got xDrive so that means all accidents are your fault, not ours."

The odd thing is, it should read

"The BMW all-wheel drive system, xDrive, ensures your BMW has the best possible acceleration at all times, enhancing agility and keeping you safely on track, even on fast bends. "

There are exactly 0 stats showing which drive system is safer because . . . drive systems are not safety systems. Who would collect such stats?

The following video shows that traction (i.e. grip) is the interaction of tire, road, and vehicle weight. This video does not/not show a failure of xDrive. In fact, xDrive is working great in this video. I can see the car sending engine power to the rear then front axle, which is how xDrive works. If the rear slips, power to the front axle. If front slips, power to the rear axle. Again, not the jack the thread on a long drawn out discussion on AWD system, xDrive is okay as a system and tends to be faster reacting than competitors from Mercedes and selected Audi models. If you were driving in a rally car though, you wouldn't use xDrive as it is axle, not wheel biased. Some vehicles (notably the Subari STi or Ford Focus RS) use Limited Slip Differentials for both power distribution and driving wheels. You can send 100% of power to 1 wheel, theoretically.

The failure here is poor choice of tires. For best winter grip in slush, snow, and ice, winter tires are best. Watch 'Buddy' sell snow tires to any AWD owner who believes drive systems, not tires, are responsible for grip:

Go Buddy, sell those winter tires! Man that guy looks pissed. Buddy, turn off traction control you dumba$$. Every time he spins the wheels TC cuts in and reduces throttle. It's hilarious.

[Joe240]

Yes, tires provide grip and they are designed for each scenario (summer vs winter) to provide the best grip. Of course all seasons aren't going to be as good as snow tires in winter.

The point of AWD is to give you the additional control. In winter with the rwd model on snow tires, still not going to have as good of grip as the xdrive on snow tires because the rwd models don't have an LSD. Although xdrive isn't as good as the Subaru system, sending power 50/50 to 4 wheels will still be safer and better than to one wheel. Also, I'm pretty sure (and please correct me if I'm wrong) but the xdrive system may only distribute power front and back, but it also detects wheel spin and applies the brakes to the spinning wheel as well.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by Joe240

The point of AWD is to give you the additional control. In winter with the rwd model on snow tires, still not going to have as good of grip as the xdrive on snow tires because the rwd models don't have an LSD. Although xdrive isn't as good as the Subaru system, sending power 50/50 to 4 wheels will still be safer and better than to one wheel. Also, I'm pretty sure (and please correct me if I'm wrong) but the xdrive system may only distribute power front and back, but it also detects wheel spin and applies the brakes to the spinning wheel as well.

"The point of AWD is to give you the additional control."

What AWD was developed for is to provide greater acceleration under certain conditions. So, if by additional control you mean, under certain conditions, the ability to accelerate, sure. But isn't not exactly predictable so the addition may or may not be there.

"In winter with the rwd model on snow tires, still not going to have as good of grip as the xdrive on snow tires because the rwd models don't have an LSD."

Not exactly. First, All F-series BMW (except M cars) use an eLSD, regardless of drive system. Only RWD M cars come with clutch-based LSDs as standard. In fact, if you have an xDrive 2 and your friend has a RWD 2, only the RWD car can be fitted with a clutch-based LSD. LSDs cannot be be fitted to xDrive as of 2016.

It is common to confuse grip with acceleration. If there is grip, a vehicle can accelerate but a vehicle cannot create grip by accelerating.

If the front half of a car is on 0 friction surface, and the back half on a high friction surface, the will be no difference between xDrive and RWD because xDrive will sense the front has 0 traction and send all power to the rear. But, in reverse, if grip is present only in the front and not in the rear, xDrive will send power forwards to accelerate on the grip present there. The RWD driving car's power cannot be moved forward hence it is impossible to accelerate (don't confuse acceleration with velocity, a car can move fine on ice, it just can't accelerate well).

"Although xdrive isn't as good as the Subaru system, sending power 50/50 to 4 wheels will still be safer and better than to one wheel."

It's oranges and apples comparison. Full-time AWD, where any wheel can receive all the power is a great system for an off-road vehicle, where one or more wheels could be lifted off the ground. Got a HUMVEE, rally car? You want full-time AWD. But, that system is built for extremes you typically do not experience on city streets, highways, or parking lots. Since it's always on, a lot of energy is wasted on parasitic drive train loss all the time.

Axle based systems are better suited for typical paved roads. Sometimes you need a push. Sometimes a pull. Maybe a combo or maybe one or the other. They consume less fuel and are cheaper to make. Why is xDrive a good system? Because among these types of AWD systems, xDrive quickly moves, and splits power between axles. It's better than Mercedes older, slower systems and some models of Audi (Audi does offer full time AWD). In my opinion, for the cost, xDrive is a superior system to most axle-based AWD systems because it has better electronics and hence reacts faster.

" . . will still be safer"

Never fall under the illusion that any drive system is 'safer'. Drive systems are not rated for safety. Seat belts, crumples zones, air bags, etc. For the United States, see IIHS safety ratings (http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings) for vehicles, not whether they have an AWD sticker on the back of the trunk. It is a common myth that AWD is related to safety. It isn't.

Going back to the OP's post, maybe you should have got RWD. This guy is loving his RWD in the snow and he has 550HP to play with. Screw the snow! Power through it and drive the sh*t out of the car with balls of steel.

[Sneedis]

Originally Posted by menncars

Going back to the OP's post, maybe you should have got RWD. This guy is loving his RWD in the snow and he has 550HP to play with. Screw the snow! Power through it and drive the sh*t out of the car with balls of steel.

[SquireGlig]

I get quite a bit of snow in Waterloo region of Ontario (in the snow belt). I've had no problems getting stuck with RWD and Michelin Xi3. The stability systems and ediff work well. Coming from a e46 325xi (yes, completely different AWD system, but still), I find this car pretty much just as capable. Perhaps the only difference I've noticed is when there is sheet ice on the road and you are starting off uphill, I could probably start more aggressively with the XI. I was initially scared of going RWD only, but now I wouldn't have it any other way!

[Dylan86]

If I were winter driving, and using the car 12mo/yr, I'd definitely go with XDrive. Nothing worse than being stuck at a light, on a steep grade going uphill, and have to try and get moving in a RWD car. No snow tire will save you in that situation lol.

Example, in Toronto. Dufferin St, Northbound @ Davenport. Get stuck at that light in the snow, and May god be with you.. AWD is a champ in the snow, and is the safest route.

For me, like others, it was RWD+6MT being a must. So for that, I bought a beater 4x4 Dakota pickup for about the cost of a set of winter rims and tires. Best investment I ever made! Plus, even if I wanted to winter drive the car, the front end would get destroyed. We can get up to 3ft of powder here in one night, so no sense in even trying, just makes the most sense to have a beater truck around my parts. If I were in Toronto still, I'd probably get a beater too, because of all of the idiot drivers, salt, etc etc..

[MartyMcFly88MPH]

IMO AWD is the way to go if you live anywhere snowy and hilly. My GTI did great w/ snow tires in WI, but struggled here in CO a few times. The worst was when traffic was thick going into the mountains on snowy roads. While attempting to accelerate from a stop, the weight was off the drive wheels, so the nose would start to dip toward the next lane. I imagine RWD would suffer in similar situations. Plus there's something to be said for getting through an intersection quickly and being able to apply power through turns. I'm excited to see how the M235ix handles the snow.

Edit: I just realized I ended up in the Canadian section somehow.

[qJai]

Originally Posted by Taunto

You will be happy with the X-drive.
I bought an X-drive mainly because i was in the same boat of driving it in the winter but now that i came across another cheap vehicle recently i can drive for winter im not going to bother.
I put the M-performance front spoiler on my car and with the dinan springs I wouldn't be surprised if it is too low for winter and end up pushing alot of snow. If you dont have a drop it might help, hard to say..last winter was fairly mild, this winter could be awful - who knows in Alberta.

I am glad i have the front spoiler on my car and love how it looks - just got to be that much more cautious when driving around the city tho.

Thats my car as it sits now

Taunto, did you get the dinan bumpstops as well?

[Taunto]

yes I did

[Hazecat]

Originally Posted by Sneedis

Hello everyone,

I recently ordered an M240i xDrive. I wanted a car that I could use every day, including in Canadian winters, but still have fun and enjoy my time driving. This will be my only vehicle. The previous vehicles I've owned have been primarily FWD and have performed fine during the winter.

Calgary has relatively harsh winters, so I thought xDrive would be my best bet. I know that tires are the most important aspect of safe winter driving, but I've never driven a RWD vehicle in the snow. Calgary is also a city of hills, and given the constant stopping and starting of everyday traffic, I felt xDrive would provide the least stressful experience.

This is not a vehicle I ever plan to track, but reading around online, it feels like a might be missing out on the BMW driving experience by going with AWD (of course these are opinions of people who aren't familiar with Canadian winters). However, I'm concerned I wouldn't enjoy the 8 months of the year with snow on the ground (although the last two winters here have been mild). Given the price of the car, I don't want this to be just a summer cruiser.

I just wanted to know if anyone else here had a similar dilemma and how they dealt with it, or if anyone drives it 365 days a year, how they feel about it. Should I suck it up and go RWD, or will I still have fun with xDrive?

Hi there, IMO I will go Xdrive for sure. Still can slide if you go full throttle

[TakoMako]

M240i xdrive here in Calgary. No regrets.

[cire]

I live in Calgary. I don't bother with the X-drive. A good set of winter tires are very important . I run 215/50/17 Blizzaks on my 228. Same tires on the old 128. Drive it everyday. Really the roads are well maintained these days.

[TakoMako]

Originally Posted by cire

I live in Calgary. I don't bother with the X-drive. A good set of winter tires are very important . I run 215/50/17 Blizzaks on my 228. Same tires on the old 128. Drive it everyday. Really the roads are well maintained these days.

Not if you are going outside of Calgary

[cire]

All around Alberta, BC and through the mountains in rwd vehicles (cars, trucks) for 30 years Police cars have been rwd for many many years. X-drive is ok but winter tires are far more important for stopping and holding the road. Winter tires have come a long way in the past few years.

[TakoMako]

Originally Posted by cire

All around Alberta, BC and through the mountains in rwd vehicles (cars, trucks) for 30 years Police cars have been rwd for many many years. X-drive is ok but winter tires are far more important for stopping and holding the road. Winter tires have come a long way in the past few years.

Yeah, I love going for road trips during winter lol

[cire]

Work, skiing and sledding keep a guy on the roads. Good thing is the roads are seldom in bad shape (even in the mountains). Just a handful of days with really poor conditions in any given winter. We travel through the mountains every other weekend and some people have no respect for the conditions. Winter tires and drive to the conditions.
Few vehicles in Europe are all wheel drive. All wheel drive and SUV's are way oversold in NA.

X-drive 2 Series is a nice car, worse in the winter than a 2 Series with winters though. Really good with winters.

[evilalien]

Originally Posted by Sneedis

Calgary has relatively harsh winters, so I thought xDrive would be my best bet. I know that tires are the most important aspect of safe winter driving, but I've never driven a RWD vehicle in the snow. Calgary is also a city of hills, and given the constant stopping and starting of everyday traffic, I felt xDrive would provide the least stressful experience.

I think you made the right choice.

I'm from Calgary, and spent many years there. My last two DDs were progressively faster Subarus. Honestly, I don't recommend anyone buy a non-AWD drive car there or anywhere else in Canada if they want to drive it year-round. Some people are happy with FWD, some with RWD, and ultimately the tires and driver skill are incredibly important.

But... there is something magically about the grip and rip capabilties of a sport AWD machine engineered to grab ahold of the road.

My next car, just ordered this week, is a M240i xdrive. I'm in the Vancouver area now, and the crazy winter we've had has re-enforced by view that AWD is more than a nice-to-have anywhere in Canada. Otherwise, I would have ordered an M2. I don't think I'll be even slightly disappointed

[zipphreak]

I've got one of the original 2015 M235xi when xdrive was first released for the 2-series Loving every minute of it. Daily driver/track day fun car. Honestly in New England AWD is not a necessity, but i found the extra traction on certain corners at the track to be great.

-Paul

[aerobod]

I don't think it is necessary at all to have AWD in Alberta for driving on any paved roads. We've had 5 RWD BMWs over the past 16 years and driven them all over Central and Southern Alberta and to the BC interior in winter snow conditions. All that we have needed is good winter tyres. One of the best drives I've had was up the fully snow covered access road to Kicking Horse ski area in my old Z4M after a spring snow storm, skis between the seats and the roof down, snow thrown in a plume off the rear tyres.

The only thing I'm afraid of in winter with a RWD car and good winter tyres is the person behind with all-season tyres who is likely to run into the back of me when I stop at traffic lights and is invariably driving an AWD vehicle (most likely an SUV or pick-up) beyond their grip potential.

The M240i we just ordered is RWD and will be a daily driver in Calgary and to the ski resorts, as our previous BMWs have all been.

[Cumberlandjames]

This is my second car with AWD, the first being an Audi A5, and although you can do a burnout and make some smoke with the RWD the performance of the AWD is outstanding. I don't drive mine in winter but can tell you that the extreme grip in fast cornering is unsurpassed. I had the opportunity to do some track driving with my Audi and it outperformed many more powerful cars simply because it wouldn't come unglued inn the corners. As pointed out, you do loose the manual trans. option which can be fun but all in all the Xdrive is faster. Enjoy it and think of the tires you're saving by having superb grip and no spinning.