[zipstic]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

3) My next winter tire will be the DWS06.

Originally Posted by 4Hockey4

Updated from Tirerack:

Continental has led the way with the ExtremeContact DWS 06 (and its predecessors), which has established itself as the winter performance benchmark for the category. This tire delivers good acceleration and braking traction, along with surprisingly capable handling around our snow-covered test course. Special attention should also be paid to Michelin for the work they have done with the Pilot Sport A/S 3+. After its predecessor fell short of expectations in winter conditions, Michelin deployed a significant tread compound change for the "plus" version used in this test, and we can confirm it delivers on Michelin's promise of strong snow traction. The Pilot Sport A/S 3+ was able to accelerate and brake slightly better than the ExtremeContact DWS 06. The Pilot Sport A/S 3+'s straightforward five-rib tread pattern didn't have quite as much lateral grip as the ExtremeContact DWS 06 with its trademark cross-hatch tread pattern, and consequently displayed greater understeer during cornering.

I think it should be noted that the DWS06 and Pilot Sport A/S 3+ are not winter tires. They are all season tires that are geared towards cold weather conditions. Tirerack's says they're the "benchmark for the category", where category is referring to all season tires.

A true winter tire will perform significantly better in snow and ice than either the DWS06 and Pilot Sport A/S 3+.

The DWS06 is an excellent tire selection for the OP and fits exactly what he was looking. They're on my wife's F30 328 xdrive and perform pretty well. However, they don't perform nearly as well as the winter tires on my e92 335xi.

Just thought I would add my thoughts in case someone is looking for a true winter tire.

[grocerylist]

This video was made with appropriate timing for this post.

Somethings to note:
At 0C/32F in dry conditions, the summer tires had the shortest braking distances of all the tested tires (summer, all-season, winter).


In wet conditions at 7C/44F Summer tires were a bit behind everything else but IMO still plenty safe. At 10C/50F Summer tires were essentially equal to the all-season and above 12C/55F Summer tires were superior.


Snow handling pretty obvious with the winter tires leading, followed by all-season and Summer having no business on snowy roads.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by zipstic

I think it should be noted that the DWS06 and Pilot Sport A/S 3+ are not winter tires. They are all season tires that are geared towards cold weather conditions. Tirerack's says they're the "benchmark for the category", where category is referring to all season tires.

A true winter tire will perform significantly better in snow and ice than either the DWS06 and Pilot Sport A/S 3+.

The DWS06 is an excellent tire selection for the OP and fits exactly what he was looking. They're on my wife's F30 328 xdrive and perform pretty well. However, they don't perform nearly as well as the winter tires on my e92 335xi.

Just thought I would add my thoughts in case someone is looking for a true winter tire.

I have both of these tires on different cars currently. Excellent tires they may be, winter tires they are not.

There's no substitute for studless ice and snow if your region calls for it. High performance winter ie Blizzak LM is a gussied up all season, studless ice and snow is the play.

[cooolone2]

I swap Blizzak's on my 330xi for winter... Pirellis for summer driving.

I have yet to find a decent set of wheels I like to mount winter tires on for my new M240iX. Looking for 17's Season is early though, so who knows.

Stats be damned, I can swear those Blizzaks stick like glue and stop on a dime! lol

[MerlinMc]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Driving summer tires in winter is foolish and dangerous. Even if perfectly dry outside the compound is not meant for cold, gets hard and slick. Bad for the tires and bad for handling. I once got caught in April with summer tires on a random cold day and slid sideways across my parking lot - pavement was perfectly dry.

Getting winter wheels and tires doesn't actually cost you much, your summers will last twice as long and you'll be safe year round.

This is my philosophy as well. Even my 4WD truck gets winter tires each winter. The tires make at least if not more of a difference than the 4WD.

[grocerylist]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Driving summer tires in winter is foolish and dangerous. Even if perfectly dry outside the compound is not meant for cold, gets hard and slick. Bad for the tires and bad for handling. I once got caught in April with summer tires on a random cold day and slid sideways across my parking lot - pavement was perfectly dry.

Getting winter wheels and tires doesn't actually cost you much, your summers will last twice as long and you'll be safe year round.

Totally depends on where you live. In Seattle it doesn't often get below 40. I've never had a problem with Summer tires in the 7 years I've lived here. On the very rare occasion that it snows I'd just stay at home. I regret buying my car with the Pirelli RFTs and just ordered a new set of wheels with PS4S.

[XutvJet]

After putting my OEM wheels with 225/40R18 PA4 winter performance tires back on about a month ago, I've decided I'm done with winter tires. I live in Kansas City where temps can vary from 20s to 50s between November and March and there is always a chance for snow within those months. It is hilly where I live, but snow removal is good and most snow is off the street within 3 to 5 hours of an event.

I bought the PA4s because most everyone swears you need with a high powered RWD BMW. Thing is, I been driving in KS winters since 1989 and had FWD, AWD and RWD cars and NONE ever had winter tires. The ONLY time I got stuck was in my wife's 2009 Outback that high centered itself on 15"+ of snow on an unplowed side street. I've piloted a 94 Z28 through the super hilly streets of Lawrence, KS in the snow and NEVER got stuck. Same goes for my buddy and his 90 LX 5.0 Mustang. We never got stuck in that thing.

Why I thought winter tires was necessary for my BMW was mistake for where I live and my driving skills. Winter tires have absolutely terrible threshold braking capabilities on any dry surface when temps are above 20 degrees. They handle terribly to. They aren't great in the wet. They can roar. They do perform quite well for the 10 to 15 days when there is snow/slush actually on the road. All other days, a solid all season performance tires is far more ideal and safer in 20+ degree dry/wet conditions. I drive hard and I'm on my 3rd winter with the PA4s. I know what I'm talking about when comparing my driving experiences.

If you live somewhere like me, DO NOT waste your time with winter performance tires. A tire like the Continental DWS06 is the perfect tire.

You should outfit your car for the conditions it's going to be driving in most of the time, not the worst case scenario. Winter and snow tires are full of safety compromises once they are out of the snow or living in temps above the 20s.

[PDM5]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

After putting my OEM wheels with 225/40R18 PA4 winter performance tires back on about a month ago, I've decided I'm done with winter tires. I live in Kansas City where temps can vary from 20s to 50s between November and March and there is always a chance for snow within those months. It is hilly where I live, but snow removal is good and most snow is off the street within 3 to 5 hours of an event.

I bought the PA4s because most everyone swears you need with a high powered RWD BMW. Thing is, I been driving in KS winters since 1989 and had FWD, AWD and RWD cars and NONE ever had winter tires. The ONLY time I got stuck was in my wife's 2009 Outback that high centered itself on 15"+ of snow on an unplowed side street. I've piloted a 94 Z28 through the super hilly streets of Lawrence, KS in the snow and NEVER got stuck. Same goes for my buddy and his 90 LX 5.0 Mustang. We never got stuck in that thing.

Why I thought winter tires was necessary for my BMW was mistake for where I live and my driving skills. Winter tires have absolutely terrible threshold braking capabilities on any dry surface when temps are above 20 degrees. They handle terribly to. They aren't great in the wet. They can roar. They do perform quite well for the 10 to 15 days when there is snow/slush actually on the road. All other days, a solid all season performance tires is far more ideal and safer in 20+ degree dry/wet conditions. I drive hard and I'm on my 3rd winter with the PA4s. I know what I'm talking about when comparing my driving experiences.

If you live somewhere like me, DO NOT waste your time with winter performance tires. A tire like the Continental DWS06 is the perfect tire.

You should outfit your car for the conditions it's going to be driving in most of the time, not the worst case scenario. Winter and snow tires are full of safety compromises once they are out of the snow or living in temps above the 20s.

This. This. And this.

[cristo]

Originally Posted by cooolone2

I swap Blizzak's on my 330xi for winter... Pirellis for summer driving.

I have yet to find a decent set of wheels I like to mount winter tires on for my new M240iX. Looking for 17's Season is early though, so who knows.

Stats be damned, I can swear those Blizzaks stick like glue and stop on a dime! lol

I thought the BBS SR wheels (17x7.5 ET35) looked
pretty good, so I got them with Michelin X-ice Xi3
tires in 215/50/r17 for our 2020M240i convertible.
Only a dusting or two of snow so far, but on
other cars I’ve found the X-ice to be almost
as good as the Blizzak WS-90 on snow and ice and
much better for dry or wet winter handling
When there’s no white stuff around.
Very pleased with the choice.

[harma24]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Winter tires have absolutely terrible threshold braking capabilities on any dry surface when temps are above 20 degrees. They handle terribly to. They aren't great in the wet.

Interesting. I did not experience any of this with my first set of Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4's (I am about to order a replacement set). While they definitely don't handle as well as a summer tire, I certainly would not say they have absolutely terrible braking capabilities and handling. In fact, I've been able to push them quite hard on dry pavement (even above 20deg F) and was impressed with their capability when new (granted, my current set are at the end of life and don't handle as well as they once did).

[Mehim]

Originally Posted by harma24

Interesting. I did not experience any of this with my first set of Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4's (I am about to order a replacement set). While they definitely don't handle as well as a summer tire, I certainly would not say they have absolutely terrible braking capabilities and handling. In fact, I've been able to push them quite hard on dry pavement (even above 20deg F) and was impressed with their capability when new (granted, my current set are at the end of life and don't handle as well as they once did).

I agree. Alpins have exceptional wet grip and braking in my experience. Dry they are solid too.

[jgalaxy]

They've made it law here to have winter tires by Dec 1st. I usually have mine on by mid November. Night and day handling for anyone in the snow belt. This year snow came a little early and I didnt get a chance to change to winters on the F150. A few white knuckle days until I was able to change from all seasons to my Blizzaks.

[dradernh]

My latitude, winter temperatures, and snowfall are very similar to those of XutvJet, and I think his approach is certainly workable given the usual conditions in KC and Cincinnati.

Even though I don't DD or drive in snow (or its aftermath), I've chosen the following approach for the indicated seasons, ambient temperatures, and reasons:

Winter: <30° F – Michelin X-Ice Xi3 – winter conditions = winter tires (a habit of mine left over from Northern New England);

Shoulder: 30-50° F – Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ – While I've run winters in this temp range on other cars, an A/S tire offers better grip; I also don't put many miles on them so I've always got deep tread if I should get caught out in the rain; and,

Summer: >50° F – Michelin Pilot Super Sport – Summer tires for summer weather; I plan to go with Yokohama ADVAN A052s when the PSS' wear out, and I may wait for 55-60° temps before putting them on the car.

[230iZTR]

AWD really only helps in snow while you're overcoming the initial moment of inertia in transitioning from a full stop to moving. Once you're moving, its all about your traction control system and the grip your tires provide. If you hit a patch of ice while you're moving, you'll spin regardless of whether you're FWD, RWD or AWD.

Its also worth noting that the tread pattern and rubber compound formula in winter tires vs. summer tires will have very different pliability and water-wicking behavior in winter conditions to impact both static and moving traction.

So if you're concerned about getting going in stop and go traffic during poor weather, get AWD; if you're concerned about staying pointed in the right direction once you're going, get proper winter tires; and if you're concerned about both, get AWD and proper winter tires.

I've got RWD and have been happy with Supersports in the summer and X-ice Xi3's in winter.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by 230iZTR

AWD really only helps in snow while you're overcoming the initial moment of inertia in transitioning from a full stop to moving. Once you're moving, its all about your traction control system and the grip your tires provide. If you hit a patch of ice while you're moving, you'll spin regardless of whether you're FWD, RWD or AWD.

Its also worth noting that the tread pattern and rubber compound formula in winter tires vs. summer tires will have very different pliability and water-wicking behavior in winter conditions to impact both static and moving traction.

So if you're concerned about getting going in stop and go traffic during poor weather, get AWD; if you're concerned about staying pointed in the right direction once you're going, get proper winter tires; and if you're concerned about both, get AWD and proper winter tires.

I've got RWD and have been happy with Supersports in the summer and X-ice Xi3's in winter.

Agree completely with the addition that if you are concerned about stopping/turning in poor winter weather, get dedicated winter tires. So much of the conversation is focused on getting going, which is a nice convenience. More concern should be focused on stopping/turning where the superiority of winter tires over all else is significant and clear.

[morphomeman]

All season tires are fine in most parts of the US year-round.
Summer performance tires, though, are DANGEROUS in the winter, because they are designed to be used at ambient temperatures above 40 degrees Fahrenheit, 5 Celcius. Below that, the compound gets hard and the tires become unusable to the point of posing a danger to all. That is the real problem.
The original post on this thread was about using summer tires all year round.

[WolfGTI]

From my days living in Toronto and Calgary - I learned to run winter wheels / tires in the winter and summer wheels in the summer. When I moved to NJ in 2000, I spent one winter with all seasons - not doing that again. While the ice was less then my Canadian winters, the ability to brake / turn in sloppy weather is so much better with winter rubber.

Now all my cars - the GTI, Cooper S, wife's X1 and my 240i all have dedicated winter wheels and tires - granted the GTI and Cooper S haven't seen snow in years - I will take them out for a drive when it's cold and dry. For the price of tires and wheels - the security (to me ) is worth it.

[Meeni]

Summer tires have abysmal performance in the cold. I live in the south, and we have mild winters, so I've done it a couple of years, but really any day with freezing temperature you could roll on wooden blocks to the same effect.

Also, summer tires wear super fast when used in cold weather. Usually, a set of summer is done for after the (again, mild) winter. So in the end you don't save much since you still need to buy new tires.

[Unicorn123]

[LEFT]Howdy folks; been off-line for a while (work has been nuts the last 2 months) and thought I'd chime in on the thread that will never die...

My two cents; if you want to ensure you have the best grip in the winter with ice and snow in your geographic location, be sure to have winter tires. In Upstate NY, where I last lived prior to the balmy environs of Northeastern Connecticut, it was essential and I drove an AWD car. Here in CT, we get about 30-40" of snow a winter (versus over 200" where I lived in NY) so winter tires are not essential but in the hilly bits where I live, most useful. The last several posts have illustrated this philosophy and are well grounded. This said, winter rated tires will not provide the level of dry traction and stopping performance (remember, tires stop your car, not the brakes) you would expect from HP tires. If you can afford a second set in climates where snow and ice are not as prevalent but is a potential issue, the Nokia all-season (winter rated) and my personal favorite, Conti DWS 06 tires should be sufficient and give you the grip you need in light snow. If you have ice regularly, winter rated tire are the way to go...

As another posting noted, AWD will only get you going faster but as I learned years ago in a Galant VR-4, you will not stop any better...

I am prepping my new (to me) 328is (with LSD) for winter rally's at this time and will be setting it up with studded snows for its first winter NER SCCA event; this is a serious as it gets for winter driving...! No AWD for us (my co-driver thinks I am mad...)...We're going old school! Tow chains and shovels for everyone!