[hwntime]

Originally Posted by Xi-Xi

This is simply not true. The AS3+ is a fine performer in low temperatures. Every reputable review has given the tire high ratings, including those evaluations for cold weather handling. Three winters now I've been using them. To say that that they're any less competent in temperatures under 40 F than the Continental is nonsense.

LMFAO ok if you say so. I've been on DWS06 for my last 2 sets and the original DWS prior to that so I have first hand experience in comparing the two. I made the switch because of these so-called reviews and I was sorely disappointed. I wanted to like the AS3+ but they suck in sub 40 degree temps because the rubber gets really hard and traction is lost. I'm comparing them to the performance of the DWS06. Read my review here: https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...ighlight=dws06 and you'll see that most people agree with me on the cold weather performance and noise levels. There is a difference between internet reviews and real-world experience. You honestly don't think there is bias and/or financial gains for websites to tout the new tire as being the holy grail of all A/S tires? If not, you are very naive my friend. Also, read Tire Racks updated review on the cold-weather performance between the two and you'll see the Conti's come out on top.

Stop believing every thing you read on the internet and chiming in without first hand experience between the two. They are decent down to 40-45 but in Portland it's currently mid-30's in the morning and the tires are hard! Yes, the Mich are more performance oriented in the dry and temps above 40, but the Conti's shine sub 40. If it is cold weather performance from an A/S you're looking for, try the DWS06 and I promise you, you will not go back to AS3+. If you want a little more responsive, performance oriented tire and don't get below 40, maybe the Mich is the way to go but, cold weather goes to the Conti hands down.

By the way, I am comparing apples to apples because I know tire width can play a role in driving characteristics. The two sets of DWS06 were on my E92 335i which had a staggered set-up 225/40/18 and 255/35/18. My current set up is 225/40/18 and 245/35/18.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by hwntime

LMFAO ok if you say so. I've been on DWS06 for my last 2 sets and the original DWS prior to that so I have first hand experience in comparing the two. I made the switch because of these so-called reviews and I was sorely disappointed. I wanted to like the AS3+ but they suck in sub 40 degree temps because the rubber gets really hard and traction is lost. I'm comparing them to the performance of the DWS06. Read my review here: https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...ighlight=dws06 and you'll see that most people agree with me on the cold weather performance and noise levels. There is a difference between internet reviews and real-world experience. You honestly don't think there is bias and/or financial gains for websites to tout the new tire as being the holy grail of all A/S tires? If not, you are very naive my friend. Also, read Tire Racks updated review on the cold-weather performance between the two and you'll see the Conti's come out on top. Stop believing every thing you read on the internet and chiming in without first hand experience. They are decent down to 40-45 but in Portland it's currently mid-30's in the morning and the tires are hard! Yes, the Mich are more performance oriented in the dry and temps above 40, but the Conti's shine sub 40.

I think there is some conflation of "cold" in the dry with "snow". Few would ever suggest driving AS3+ on snow. It's not intended for that usage (as all UHPAS, manufacturers recommend, at most, "light snow", and most are not very good at that either). Similarly, I've never heard anyone describe them as "quiet". But, I have never seen Tire Rack evaluate a tire simply based on a "cold" condition, sans snow, so those graphs/charts are not applicable to this issue.

My experience in 40s and lower temperatures cold (early Spring/late Fall - after/before snow) is that the tires remain excellent. For the sake of some more noise than the DWS06, the improvement in performance at any temperature (minus on snow/ice) is worth the trade-off. I find DWS too soft for my driving preferences.

[hwntime]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I think there is some conflation of "cold" in the dry with "snow". Few would ever suggest driving AS3+ on snow. It's not intended for that usage (as all UHPAS, manufacturers recommend, at most, "light snow", and most are not very good at that either). Similarly, I've never heard anyone describe them as "quiet". But, I have never seen Tire Rack evaluate a tire simply based on a "cold" condition, sans snow, so those graphs/charts are not applicable to this issue.

My experience in 40s and lower temperatures cold (early Spring/late Fall - after/before snow) is that the tires remain excellent. For the sake of some more noise than the DWS06, the improvement in performance at any temperature (minus on snow/ice) is worth the trade-off. I find DWS too soft for my driving preferences.

To each their own, right. I agree, the Mich are more responsive but where I live, we're in the 30's almost half the year. I live up in the hills too so the extra confidence of the Conti's are my choice year 'round. Two winters ago we got hit with a major blizzard and the city was pretty much shut down for almost 2 weeks because not many people have snow tires. It's rare to get snow like that but a few days a year, some light dusting here and there, and sub 40 for half the year calls for the best cold weather performing A/S in my opinion. What I also noticed--I haven't paid attention to reviews on this matter--is that the Conti's also seem to perform much better in the heavy rains. We get a lot of rain in the Pacific NW so again, DWS06 for me.

[Xi-Xi]

Originally Posted by hwntime

LMFAO ok if you say so. I've been on DWS06 for my last 2 sets and the original DWS prior to that so I have first hand experience in comparing the two. I made the switch because of these so-called reviews and I was sorely disappointed. I wanted to like the AS3+ but they suck in sub 40 degree temps because the rubber gets really hard and traction is lost. I'm comparing them to the performance of the DWS06. Read my review here: https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...ighlight=dws06 and you'll see that most people agree with me on the cold weather performance and noise levels. There is a difference between internet reviews and real-world experience. You honestly don't think there is bias and/or financial gains for websites to tout the new tire as being the holy grail of all A/S tires? If not, you are very naive my friend. Also, read Tire Racks updated review on the cold-weather performance between the two and you'll see the Conti's come out on top.

Stop believing every thing you read on the internet and chiming in without first hand experience between the two. They are decent down to 40-45 but in Portland it's currently mid-30's in the morning and the tires are hard! Yes, the Mich are more performance oriented in the dry and temps above 40, but the Conti's shine sub 40. If it is cold weather performance from an A/S you're looking for, try the DWS06 and I promise you, you will not go back to AS3+. If you want a little more responsive, performance oriented tire and don't get below 40, maybe the Mich is the way to go but, cold weather goes to the Conti hands down.

By the way, I am comparing apples to apples because I know tire width can play a role in driving characteristics. The two sets of DWS06 were on my E92 335i which had a staggered set-up 225/40/18 and 255/35/18. My current set up is 225/40/18 and 245/35/18.

Since you can't contradict the fact that the AS3+ has been reviewed extremely favorably by reputable reviewers now you're saying that that's because of CONSPIRACY?! "Bias", "financial gains"!! Let me use your words: LMFAO! That tin foil hat has got to be pretty snug.

Where do you get off saying that I don't have first hand experience? I've also driven on both the Continentals previously and have the Michelins in question now, so I guess that gives me plenty of first hand experience. I wrote in my earlier post that is my third winter on the AS3s. The Michelin cold weather characteristics are as good if not better than the Continental. It hasn't been above 40 here in a month, but somehow I've managed to avoid putting the car in a ditch. It could be my superlative driving skills, but it's more likely that it's because the tires are pliable and handle nicely in cold weather.

I'm not sure what those graphics are supposed to prove, but they're surely not proving your point.

[hwntime]

Originally Posted by Xi-Xi

Since you can't contradict the fact that the AS3+ has been reviewed extremely favorably by reputable reviewers now you're saying that that's because of CONSPIRACY?! "Bias", "financial gains"!! Let me use your words: LMFAO! That tin foil hat has got to be pretty snug.

Where do you get off saying that I don't have first hand experience? I've also driven on both the Continentals previously and have the Michelins in question now, so I guess that gives me plenty of first hand experience. I wrote in my earlier post that is my third winter on the AS3s. The Michelin cold weather characteristics are as good if not better than the Continental. It hasn't been above 40 here in a month, but somehow I've managed to avoid putting the car in a ditch. It could be my superlative driving skills, but it's more likely that it's because the tires are pliable and handle nicely in cold weather.

I'm not sure what those graphics are supposed to prove, but they're surely not proving your point.

LOL How did i know you were going to say you had the DWS06 haha I was actually going to write it too. I really question that you did since you're saying they're just as good if not better for winter driving. Since you rely on these reviews so much, have you not seen the pics I posted above from Tire Rack? I guess you're one of the very few saying the AS3+ perform better in winter conditions vs the DWS06 I've never once denied that the Mich perform better in moderate temps, quite the opposite actually, but the Conti's are better suited for winter conditions.

[Xi-Xi]

Originally Posted by hwntime

LOL How did i know you were going to say you had the DWS06 haha I was actually going to write it too. I really question that you did since you're saying they're just as good if not better for winter driving. Since you rely on these reviews so much, have you not seen the pics I posted above from Tire Rack? I guess you're one of the very few saying the AS3+ perform better in winter conditions vs the DWS06 I've never once denied that the Mich perform better in moderate temps, quite the opposite actually, but the Conti's are better suited for winter conditions.

Yeah, yeah, yeah: LOL LOL LOL. Whatever. I have driven on both. You don't have to believe it, I really don't care. And I don't rely on reviews, but I certainly take them into consideration. The cold weather characteristics of the Michelin are on par with the Continental. Period. And I'm not talking about moderate temperatures. And like I said, those graphics don't show any tire significantly worse than the others except than the Bridgestone, i.,e., they don't support your supposed argument. Try again.

[hwntime]

Originally Posted by Xi-Xi

Yeah, yeah, yeah: LOL LOL LOL. Whatever. I have driven on both. You don't have to believe it, I really don't care. And I don't rely on reviews, but I certainly take them into consideration. The cold weather characteristics of the Michelin are on par with the Continental. Period. And I'm not talking about moderate temperatures. And like I said, those graphics don't show any tire significantly worse than the others except than the Bridgestone, i.,e., they don't support your supposed argument. Try again.

LOL Rather than reading all the paid sponsor reviews online, try reading actual real-world feedback on the Audi, Subaru, etc. forums regarding this issue. I just did and the consensus is the same as what I have mentioned. But, again, since you supposedly had the DWS06, you're in the small minority with your opinion since you actually think the AS3+ is better than the DWS06 for winter conditions.

[Xi-Xi]

Originally Posted by hwntime

LOL Rather than reading all the paid sponsor reviews online, try reading actual real-world feedback on the Audi, Subaru, etc. forums regarding this issue. I just did and the consensus is the same as what I have mentioned. But, again, since you supposedly had the DWS06, you're in the small minority with your opinion since you actually think the AS3+ is better than the DWS06 for winter conditions.

I've seen no such imaginary consensus. The Continentals may have a slight edge in snow, but in general cold temperatures there's no such advantage. I've read plenty of real-world feedback, and the vast majority has been positive. I've only seen one person ever make ridiculous claims the implication of which is that the the AS3 is no better than a shopping cart wheel in cold temperatures, and that would be you.

Almost forgot: LOL LOL!!

[hwntime]

Originally Posted by Xi-Xi

I've seen no such imaginary consensus. The Continentals may have a slight edge in snow, but in general cold temperatures there's no such advantage. I've read plenty of real-world feedback, and the vast majority has been positive. I've only seen one person ever make ridiculous claims the implication of which is that the the AS3 is no better than a shopping cart wheel in cold temperatures, and that would be you.

Almost forgot: LOL LOL!!

You're not looking in the right place LOL LOL LOL https://www.google.com/

[Xi-Xi]

Originally Posted by hwntime

You're not looking in the right place LOL LOL LOL https://www.google.com/

Yeah, right, LOL. Oh, I'm looking in the right place, and I'm not suffering any delusions or having any bizarre vendettas against an automobile tire. You're spreading misinformation, some may even call it lies. LOL, right?

[hwntime]

Originally Posted by Xi-Xi

Yeah, right, LOL. Oh, I'm looking in the right place, and I'm not suffering any delusions or having any bizarre vendettas against an automobile tire. You're spreading misinformation, some may even call it lies. LOL, right?

Haha right, because I work for Continental It's called opinion and first hand experience. And many others share my same view, so I'm assuming you think they also have a vendetta or work for Continental, too

[Xi-Xi]

Originally Posted by hwntime

Haha right, because I work for Continental It's called opinion and first hand experience. And many others share my same view, so I'm assuming you think they also have a vendetta or work for Continental, too

Yeah, except it sounded nothing like "opinion"--sounded more like supposedly unassailable holy truths received directly from God. That's hardly opinion.

[DistantTea]

Just to add to this mess... the last snow we got in Cincinnati was pretty decent. I still haven't ordered snows yet so I was driving around Clifton on the AS3+. They did just fine while I watched all the college kids be stuck in every conceivable way in every intersection and hill. I think one COULD get by on AS3s alone for Cincinnati winters without too much danger. But would one want to? I haven't made up my mind yet. The limiting factor for me is a 5" ground clearance. Now that I'm used to the car and see what the tires do in -10 degree temps I'm honestly not worried about their cold weather performance... I'm more worried that if we get sustained snow the car isn't going to be a plow in snow over 5" without tearing bumper parts off.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by DistantTea

I think one COULD get by on AS3s alone for Cincinnati winters without too much danger. But would one want to? I haven't made up my mind yet.

From your post, I would just be concerned that you are assessing the situation based on the car's ability to get moving. I would be far more concerned about stopping/turning, especially if/when the unexpected need arises. The difference of dedicated winters could be both property and personal outcomes.

[DistantTea]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

From your post, I would just be concerned that you are assessing the situation based on the car's ability to get moving. I would be far more concerned about stopping/turning, especially if/when the unexpected need arises. The difference of dedicated winters could be both property and personal outcomes.

I totally agree. That's why there is a set of BBS SX wheels and WS80s sitting in my tirerack cart. Just need to pull the trigger and be done with it.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by DistantTea

I totally agree. That's why there is a set of BBS SX wheels and WS80s sitting in my tirerack cart. Just need to pull the trigger and be done with it.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I would be far more concerned about stopping/turning, especially if/when the unexpected need arises. The difference of dedicated winters could be both property and personal outcomes.

Esp. like on the ice that was on Cincinnati's streets at 10 PM this past Saturday evening.

[XutvJet]

I've owned tons of all season performance tires over the years. The DWS06 is without a doubt the best sub 50 degree all season tire that is damn close to winter performance tires in terms of cold weather pliability and light snow (1 to 3 inch) traction. They are quiet, wear well, ride exceptionally good, and are a killer performance tire in sub 70 degree temps. You'd be a sucker to buy anything else if you want a stellar all season performance tire that occasionally sees snow. I've got Michelin Alpin PA4a and they are overkill for Kansas City winters. They are good in the snow, but snow only sticks around for a few hours before snow crews arrive. I'm going back to DWS06s once these wear out.

[Rocky58]

Discount Tire changes my winter tires and wheels for free every October and swaps back my summer tires every year for free. It was part of the deal when I bought the tire/wheel set. I don’t know what they offer in your area but even if they charge it could be worth it. My experience is that all season tires are a jack of all trades and master of none. Poor handling in snow and subpar performance the rest of he time.

[morphomeman]

Do they balance them too every time they swap them out? That is the costliest part. And do they store the wheels and tires? If yes to both, then I am definitely in.
My local indie shop, which is a temple of honest auto repair, simply does not have the room to store clients' wheels and tires, so I have to schlep them up and down stairs twice a year, which is getting old, as am I.
But yes, once you have a set of winter wheels and tires, you are freed from the tyranny of A/S tires, which have rightly been characterized as masters of nothing.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by DistantTea

I totally agree. That's why there is a set of BBS SX wheels and WS80s sitting in my tirerack cart. Just need to pull the trigger and be done with it.

Breaking news. AutoWeek just released their first review of the new updated WS90, but wrote it won't be on sale until May.

[B58togo]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Yes, but 225 wider than needed or optimum for winter. Be sure 17" wheels you choose fit over blue MSport calipers if you have them. Tire Rack can advise. BBS-SR worked for me, for example.

You drive a four cylinder. Try to drive a B58 or N55 2 Series on 215's and let me know how traction is when you want to drive aggressively when the roads are clear. 225's are bad enough.