[Icy J]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

It shouldn't....if anything it's something like less than 1mm

Originally Posted by rwalker

Were the strut a fixed length, the car would lower by approximately the sine of the angle between with and without LCA multiplied by the length of the strut. The strut's not a fixed length, though, and spring loading is increased by the same angle change, which I think could lower the car a bit more.

I think a shorter, better answer is "don't worry about it".

thanks for the replies. i did have to worry about it quite a bit as it was rubbing too much for my liking without any other adjustments and i was trying to figure out why lol

after a lot of trial and error (and bending my other fender) finally got the lca+ts combo and caster bushings installed (had to replace 10mm spacer with 5mm and raise height twice) to minimise rubbing.

front does feel much grippier and responsive now but quite a headache to sort out the rubbing issues lol. kinda wish I just went with camber plates haha

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by rwalker

Were the strut a fixed length, the car would lower by approximately the sine of the angle between with and without LCA multiplied by the length of the strut. The strut's not a fixed length, though, and spring loading is increased by the same angle change, which I think could lower the car a bit more.

I think a shorter, better answer is "don't worry about it".

See edit below.

Bringing this thread back from the grave here. As many have found, fitting these LCAs can cause quite a headache for the ones lower than stock. Most of the forum posts are here on 2addicts, and I do know that the front fenders on the F22 are tighter than the F30, but I was wondering if you or anyone in here may know what I should expect when I install LCAs to my F30 (haven't gotten a reply on F30Post). I'm considering the F8X TSs as well, but some have reported still having clearance issues once installed, so I'm unsure if worth the investment (as I can add them myself later without another alignment, if needed). I'm also contemplating having the shop raise my front end 1/4-1/2" up front to help mitigate potential rubbing.

If you or anyone else could chime in on their expectations, it would be greatly appreciated. I would love to hear "don't worry about it" too, hahaha.

My wheels are 18x8.5et38 wrapped with 245/40 PS4S (1.2% smaller than OE)

[IMG]

View post on imgur.com

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EDIT: I had the ride height raised about half an inch and the LCAs fit inside without a problem.

[WolfGTI]

Curious - I've read the thread and it appears there was a complete kit for this and that vendor is no longer actively posting?

So - is there one vendor that offers all the parts as a kit to do this?

[MacklinUSOB]

So I have my car in the shop as I write this and I just got off the phone with them. While they haven't reported any issues as far as rubbing goes, my foreman was concerned with the extension of the tie rod ends and that they are very close to the end of adjustment to compensate for all the toe these add.

My question is, has anyone here ran into any issues with their tie rods in conjuncture with this upgrade?

I have done some searching across the board and I can't seem to find anyone even hinting at their tie rod arms not successfully accommodating the excess toe compensation. Thanks in advance. (post is in another thread as well)

Edit: Called Turner Motorsport and spoke to Doug. He says they've installed these to countless cars and never had a problem getting it aligned, or had knowledge of problems related to tie rod ends reported later.

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

So I have my car in the shop as I write this and I just got off the phone with them. While they haven't reported any issues as far as rubbing goes, my foreman was concerned with the extension of the tie rod ends and that they are very close to the end of adjustment to compensate for all the toe these add. He is estimating 1/4" on the threads where toe is true again and suggests this might not be exactly safe...

My question is, has anyone here ran into any issues with their tie rods in conjuncture with this upgrade?

I have done some searching across the board and I can't seem to find anyone even hinting at their tie rod arms not successfully accommodating the excess toe compensation. Thanks in advance. (post is in another thread as well)

Edit: Called Turner Motorsport and spoke to Doug. He says they've installed these to countless cars and never had a problem getting it aligned, or had knowledge of problems related to tie rod ends reported later.

In the construction industry we typically used 3/4" rod to hold 20,000 concrete panels on a building. Typically the rods will have 3/4" insertion. The rule of thumb for minimum engagement is 3 threads engaged.

The threaded rod that we use is typically cut from mild steel. I would imagine that this is weaker than most bolts used in automotive. A 1/2" rod would have 1/2" insertion and a 3/8" rod would have 3/8". That is typically the height of the associated nut.

[aerobod]

Assuming the materials that are threaded are roughly equivalent in strength, 6 complete threads is normally the minimum for standard threads, for example M12x1.5 or M12x1.75, but 8 threads for a less common ultra fine thread such as M12x1.25.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Assuming the materials that are threaded are roughly equivalent in strength, 6 complete threads is normally the minimum for standard threads, for example M12x1.5 or M12x1.75, but 8 threads for a less common ultra fine thread such as M12x1.25.

Originally Posted by jmwilson125

In the construction industry we typically used 3/4" rod to hold 20,000 concrete panels on a building. Typically the rods will have 3/4" insertion. The rule of thumb for minimum engagement is 3 threads engaged.

The threaded rod that we use is typically cut from mild steel. I would imagine that this is weaker than most bolts used in automotive. A 1/2" rod would have 1/2" insertion and a 3/8" rod would have 3/8". That is typically the height of the associated nut.

Thank you both for your input. Between this and what I heard from Turner, I am no longer concerned. My shop still added a note to my invoice, I'm assuming to stay consistent and protect from whatever liability they *believe* it may be. Can't fault them for that. The clamping section is the most important, so by their wording and your advice this should be fine.

"Install new front control arms. INSTALLED CUSTOMER SUPPLIED FRONT LOWER
CONTROL ARMS. UPON INSTALL TECH NOTED THAT TIE ROD ENDS ARE AT MAX ADJUSTMENT. ADVISE CUSTOMER THAT TIE RODS ARE UNSAFE FOR DAILY DRIVING, THREADED ENDS ARE ONLY CAPTURED BY CLAMPING SECTION OF OUTER TIE ROD END. CUSTOMER DECLINED FURTHER REPAIRS OR REPLACEMENT PARTS AND REQUESTED CAR BE DELIVERED AS IS."

[DVC]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

See edit below.

Bringing this thread back from the grave here. As many have found, fitting these LCAs can cause quite a headache for the ones lower than stock. Most of the forum posts are here on 2addicts, and I do know that the front fenders on the F22 are tighter than the F30, but I was wondering if you or anyone in here may know what I should expect when I install LCAs to my F30 (haven't gotten a reply on F30Post). I'm considering the F8X TSs as well, but some have reported still having clearance issues once installed, so I'm unsure if worth the investment (as I can add them myself later without another alignment, if needed). I'm also contemplating having the shop raise my front end 1/4-1/2" up front to help mitigate potential rubbing.

If you or anyone else could chime in on their expectations, it would be greatly appreciated. I would love to hear "don't worry about it" too, hahaha.

My wheels are 18x8.5et38 wrapped with 245/40 PS4S (1.2% smaller than OE)

[IMG]

View post on imgur.com

[/IMG]

EDIT: I had the ride height raised about half an inch and the LCAs fit inside without a problem.

Looks like you've already fitted the parts, so I guess it's water over the damn... but I have them on my F30 without any issues. I am running Apex ARC-8s in 18x9.5 ET35 and RE-71Rs in 265/35-18; I also have Ohlins coil overs and Vorshlag camber plates, so my ride height is actually lower then stock. I have tracked this setup pretty hard, and it has been rock-solid.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by DVC

Looks like you've already fitted the parts, so I guess it's water over the damn... but I have them on my F30 without any issues. I am running Apex ARC-8s in 18x9.5 ET35 and RE-71Rs in 265/35-18; I also have Ohlins coil overs and Vorshlag camber plates, so my ride height is actually lower then stock. I have tracked this setup pretty hard, and it has been rock-solid.

Yes, sir!

I had my KW's raised up to max height (only another 1/2" up) because I wanted to be sure it'd be good under compression at LRP and I didn't have a single instance of rub. I'm running the 18x8.5 ET38 SM-10s with 245/40-18 PS4S, good to know I have room if I choose to upsize to 255s.

The arms make a fantastic difference on track, the bushings and extra camber really help out a ton. Very happy with the mod, even without the tension arms.

[Dylan86]

The LCA/TS mod absolutely send more vibes and feedback through the steering column. Between that and coilovers I get wheel movement/feedback from almost everything, probably more than most would want, lol. This is why most people buy M cars, "feel", and I can see how one person driving an M2, then an M235 would be suggesting a "numbness" from the M235, it's exactly what BMW intended on doing.

We're lucky to have the flexibility to do this, it's a great mod for the F22/F30 crowd!

[TerenceHill]

Finally had the opportunity to track-test my mods.
Understeering is completely gone, even when front tyres are hot. Gained 6 seconds per lap. Car feels very balanced now. Had a lot of fun.

[lefthander]

any knocking sound during driving for thoese who had installed both LCA and TS? TIA

[DVC]

Originally Posted by lefthander

any knocking sound during driving for thoese who had installed both LCA and TS? TIA

negative

[Icy J]

Originally Posted by lefthander

any knocking sound during driving for thoese who had installed both LCA and TS? TIA

I had some rattling/knocking over bumps which largely went away after alignment. After alignment I still get a few noises but nowhere near as much

[lefthander]

Originally Posted by Icy J

I had some rattling/knocking over bumps which largely went away after alignment. After alignment I still get a few noises but nowhere near as much

That actually deter me... lol

[52172]

What’s the part numbers for the f80 ts’s? Who has the steel spacers? What are the ideal size? Going to be doing the 4 arms on my f30 soon here.

[52172]

Originally Posted by Pparana

ok, installed spacers today, To keep the tension arm in the same location as stock a 2mm spacer is needed on the outside, 15 mm spacer is needed on the inside. hole dia (id) is 12mm for the spacers.

If I am lucky I should be able to test drive later this week, maybe align early next if not too far out of spec.

If all is well and schedule clears, I will test on track on the 29th. I have a feeling this should make a huge difference in steering feel, as the bushing replaced was a massive hydro bushing.

So are these still the ideal spacer sizes? I’m getting ready to locate steel spacers not aluminum. Thanks

[NISFAN]

From memory I used 12.2mm and 6.3mm, which replicated the positioning of the stock bushing. Was a tight fit.

I also used a 2mm spacer for the LCA.

OD 30mm stainless steel.

No knocking experienced whatsoever. Also a bit of a Meh!!! mod. Not the vast improvement others before me made out. The tighter M bushings made the most difference IMO.

[52172]

Originally Posted by krisa9977

Just put Lemforder LCA and Powerflex adjustable bushings. With Powerflex front wheel goes 20 mm backwards where it supposed to be and you getting extra -0.5 degrees of negative camber on top of LCA. Lemforder LCA is the same as m3/m4 LCA, but cost much less and also have metal uniball bearings instead of original rubber bushings.
part numbers:

Now the car has about -2.0 degrees of front negative camber.

Powerflex PFF5-1901GBL
Lemforder 38258 01
Lemforder 38259 01

Are these lemforders f80 arms? They must be if they add neg camber? What ts's do you run with those arms. Or do you just add the powerflex bushings to your f30 ts's to bring the wheel back?

[52172]

Originally Posted by DVC

The TS bushings are aluminum, right? Any reason you went with stainless rather than aluminum for the spacers?
I was thinking if there was any wear point between the TS, spacers and mounting point, worn spacers would be the easiest/cheapest fix... As long as they don't wear to the point of failure!
What's the consensus on stainless steel versus aluminum?

I think either would be fine as both metals are rt there.

[MiamiM235iEstorilBlue]

Question:
I just love the look of some negative camber. Would just adding the M4 LCA on its own be ok? My car has a tiny knock at 55k miles which to me indicates worn bushings and soon will need to replace. Any possible adverse effects to consider? I noticed some comments on rubbing.

A bit of info: my car is 100% stock. Only looking to upgrade the stock 18" wheels to 18" wheels that are 8.5"front, 9.5" rear with 235 & 255 tires respectively.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by MiamiM235iEstorilBlue

Question:
I just love the look of some negative camber. Would just adding the M4 LCA on its own be ok? My car has a tiny knock at 55k miles which to me indicates worn bushings and soon will need to replace. Any possible adverse effects to consider? I noticed some comments on rubbing.

A bit of info: my car is 100% stock. Only looking to upgrade the stock 18" wheels to 18" wheels that are 8.5"front, 9.5" rear with 235 & 255 tires respectively.

I have been running LCAs alone for over 10k without problems. The car is just about over 75k so it's time to replace the tension struts, I'm going to go with the F80 Lemforder TS. It will reduce the negative camber slightly but the stock bushing is showing its age braking hard from over 100.