[MarcoZandrini]

As some of you may have read I'm researching oil for my car. Bobistheoilguy is a great site though it can be confusing. So, I decided to check the German websites using the search phrase "BMW B58 Öl," where "Öl" is the German word for "oil." Guess what? The Europeans don't use 0W20 oil in their B58 engines! They run oils that meet either the BMW LL01 or LL04 specs, usually a 5W30 grade. Some run 0W40 or 5W40 grades. I've decided to go with Ravenaol VMP 5W30 (https://www.blauparts.com/ravenol-mo...30-vmp-5l.html). It meets the BMW LL04 spec (mid-SAPs; sulfated ash, phosphorus, and sulfur). Btw, LL04 is the same as LL01 but with lower SAPs. BMW NA wants us to run the thin stuff to meet corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) requirements. Screw that!!

[freakystyly]

NA has a different amount of sulfur compared to European gasolines. That's the main difference between LL01 and LL04.


LL-17 FE+ is the most up to date designation for the B58... not to be mistaken with LL-14 FE+

The numbers represent the year they were implemented.

The differences between these likely is fuel economy related, hence the "FE"

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by freakystyly

NA has a different amount of sulfur compared to European gasolines. That's the main difference between LL01 and LL04.


LL-17 FE+ is the most up to date designation for the B58... not to be mistaken with LL-14 FE+

The numbers represent the year they were implemented.

The differences between these likely is fuel economy related, hence the "FE"

Actually, US gasoline is ultra-low sulfur. The EPA and DOT mandated that our gasoline meets the European standard in 2018.

[aerobod]

LL-01FE oil is specified for the B58 worldwide, which is 0w30 in case of the BMW oil or 5w30 in the case of other oils that meet the spec such as Motul. LL-17FE+ or LL-14FE+ as 0w20 oils are also specified for use in most of the world, the LL-01FE oils are more available in Europe, but they additionally spec LL-12FE as being suitable as well as LL-17FE+. For European cars since 2020 with PPF, LL-04 is no longer allowed.

In North America LL-01 oils are suitable for up to 1 litre top-up, in Europe LL-01 or LL-04 oils can be used for 1 litre top-up. There are also equivalent ACEA spec synthetic oils in the 0w20 to 5w40 grade range that can be used for up to 1 litre top-up.

I would ensure checking the BMW websites and/or specific owners manuals in other countries, as the oil seller websites are often over broad and not necessarily accurate to the BMW specs for a given vehicle.

[aerobod]

One thing that is interesting is that the US did move to 10ppm sulphur content in fuel, but the spec states this is an average across all gasoline delivered, but it allows 80ppm at the refinery gate and 95ppm at the point os sale on a gallon-by-gallon basis. This is probably the reason why LL-04 oils are still not specified for use in North America; https://www.transportpolicy.net/stan...-and-gasoline/

The EU standard is a maximum of 10ppm, not an average as is the case in the US.

The risk of using high sulphur fuel with an LL-04 oil is that the TBN will degrade much more rapidly, so there is no guarantee the oil will meet the BMW specified oil change interval while still providing protection.

[jv92red]

The change to low sulfer (0-10ppm) is a phase in from 2017 to 2025 so depending on the refiner and region your in the fuel may or may not be in compliance at any specific time/fill up. The verbiage of the law is to meet the spec "on an annual average basis"

If you have doubts on the sulfur content of the fuel you use then don't run LL-04. LL-04 is not spec'd by BMW for the B58 in north America and apparently doesn't play well with high sulfur content in fuel - (something about Acid created from sulfur degrades LL-04 oil). LL-04 oils are low ash oils formulated for diesel motors. Low ash oil is needed in diesel motors to avoid Particulate filter clogging which is a non issue for gasoline cars in the U.S.

Just run LL-01 and you'll be fine. Better protection than "FE" oils. BMW says 17+FE oil is "recommended" cause they are more worried about CAFE than any car owner suing them because of premature ring wear at 150K miles plus. If it weren't for CAFE then they would have been recommending what they were using when they designed the B58 = LL-01

[MarcoZandrini]

Gasoline in the US is supposed to be below 10ppm as of 2020 according to https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registrati...ties-over-time .

The Ravenol VMP oil is basically an LL01 oil with mid-SAPs. LL01 spec doesn't apparently mandate a level of SAPs.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini

Gasoline in the US is supposed to be below 10ppm as of 2020 according to https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registrati...ties-over-time .

The Ravenol VMP oil is basically an LL01 oil with mid-SAPs. LL01 spec doesn't apparently mandate a level of SAPs.

This EPA Q&A on sulphur in gasoline from Sept 2021 confirms refinery limits for gasoline in the US can be up to 80PPM when leaving the refinery (as the standard is for 10PPM average):
https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registrati...ts-refinery-it

The actual regulation that is in place shows on page 2 that 10PPM is an average: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-201...2016-08912.pdf

In the EPA Q&A, it states 10PPM average is on an annual basis, but up to 80PPM is allowable on a per-gallon basis: https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/fi.../420f16053.pdf

This is the issue that BMW has, that US gasoline is still potentially too high sulphur content compared with EU, UK Switzerland and Norway gasoline, that has a maximum limit of 10PPM as opposed to an average limit of 10PPM.

[PeterWT]

I am in Florida. It's never very cold, for very long. I use an LL-01 rated, 5W30 oil, change it every 5K mi., or 6 months and sleep well at night.
That's all.

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by aerobod

This EPA Q&A on sulphur in gasoline from Sept 2021 confirms refinery limits for gasoline in the US can be up to 80PPM when leaving the refinery (as the standard is for 10PPM average):
https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registrati...ts-refinery-it

The actual regulation that is in place shows on page 2 that 10PPM is an average: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-201...2016-08912.pdf

In the EPA Q&A, it states 10PPM average is on an annual basis, but up to 80PPM is allowable on a per-gallon basis: https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/fi.../420f16053.pdf

This is the issue that BMW has, that US gasoline is still potentially too high sulphur content compared with EU, UK Switzerland and Norway gasoline, that has a maximum limit of 10PPM as opposed to an average limit of 10PPM.

I think I'll be fine with the VMP.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini

I think I'll be fine with the VMP.

As long as you change it more frequently than BMW specifies and/or either do an oil analysis or fuel analysis if you are concerned about engine corrosion if the TBN is degraded prematurely, due to being exposed to fuel that is potentially 8 times higher in sulphur than the oil was designed for, leading to sulpuric acid contamination that the alkalkine TBN package is no longer able to neutralise..

[MarcoZandrini]

I buy only Shell 91/93 octane gas only. If I'm on a trip and that gas is not available I buy either Exxon or BP. Btw, as I'm sure you are aware, regions of the US are typically served by a one or tow refineries. So, while I buy Shell gas I get the same "base" gas from any other reputable gas station.

I typically change the oil and filter every 6k miles. I'll be fine.

[aerobod]

Yes, the Shell or no-name fuel from the same refinery will have the same sulphur content. If you are getting your fuel from Appalachian refineries, it is consistently at the high end of sulphur content for feed stock of any area of the US, can’t find any public figures for output sulphur content though: https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp..._YCS_pct_m.htm

A TBN from oil analysis would indicate whether the oil is good at a 6K mile change, as opposed to relying on luck.

[MarcoZandrini]

I'm in the metro-DC area (northern Virginia). UOA of VMP shows that the TBN (and HTHS) stands up well.