[Avex]

Originally Posted by B58togo

Not sure why you’d think there would be a 20 year spread between 235 and 240 owners. It’s the same car, more or less.

affordability perhaps?

though i still don't think a preowned m235i is considered widely 'affordable' for many a 20 year old. and if the kid were a trust fund baby and money was no object, then they would have went for a brand new m2c or m240i off the bat.

got myself a m235i for my 31st birthday and it wasn't an easy decision to take equity from my investment property repayments to have it. But it still puts a smile on my face everytime i downshift to and upshift at 5000 rpm. #zerobuyersremorse

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by aerobod

The original heirarchy has now been pushed down by a place, China is now the top BMW market, followed by the US, Germany and UK: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-of-bmw-group/

As that breakdown is for the whole BMW Group, Mini could be skewed differently on a country by country basis, but as Mini accounts for about 20% of group sales, any skew is unlikely to move China from the top spot for BMW sales compared with BMW Group sales as a whole.

Indeed so, but I was referring to the 2 coupés specifically.

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by Avex

affordability perhaps?

So the year in which one makes these generalisations influences the generalisation?

Next week: 230i owners are unemployed badge seekers, perhaps! But not this week; this week they are enthusiasts seeking value.

[Avex]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

So the year in which one makes these generalisations influences the generalisation?

confused by that statement. all i'm saying the only way to own a m235i is to buy preowned and it's essentially the same car as the m240i performance wise. it's bang for buck for anyone looking to get a top of the line F22 that has had most of its depreciation suffered by its first owner; this attracts younger folks who aren't as financially established as someone in their late 30s or 40s by virtue of that fact.

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by Avex

confused by that statement. all i'm saying the only way to own a m235i is to buy preowned and it's essentially the same car as the m240i performance wise. it's bang for buck for anyone looking to get a top of the line F22 that has had most of its depreciation suffered by its first owner; this attracts younger folks who aren't as financially established as someone in their late 30s or 40s by virtue of that fact.

But how do you know if the driver of an M235i that went past you bought it new, or used? Does one need to grab a megaphone and ask? And with brand new cars given away on crazy cheap lease deals (the M240i here for example is actually cheaper, all else being equal, than a 230i, and I bet it’s a similar story elsewhere where leasing is the norm), aren’t all of these cars more or less equally affordable?

Some brilliant prejudices coming to light in this thread - keep em coming. What about people with ATs? Lazy badge slobs (if bought before Sept 30 2017) or downtrodden consumers suffering manufacturer intransigence (if bought from 1 Oct on)?

[Unicorn123]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

But how do you know if the driver of an M235i that went past you bought it new, or used? Does one need to grab a megaphone and ask? And with brand new cars given away on crazy cheap lease deals (the M240i here for example is actually cheaper, all else being equal, than a 230i, and I bet it’s a similar story elsewhere where leasing is the norm), aren’t all of these cars more or less equally affordable?

Some brilliant prejudices coming to light in this thread - keep em coming. What about people with ATs? Lazy badge slobs (if bought before Sept 30 2017) or downtrodden consumers suffering manufacturer intransigence (if bought from 1 Oct on)?

Scott, good point. Being a lazy badge slob myself , I think the bottom line here is that we have, in the vast majority, a bunch of folks who love to drive and enjoy the experiences the 2-Series provides when behind the wheel. I have to say I think the car is fantastic.

It seems a bit silly to try to lump people together in a specific "group" or "attitude" by car make and marque, although it seems to make for a good debate. There are those that fit the "generic stereotype" for a specific marque and yes, there are folks who buy a car to impress others or for prestige, but this seems like a pretty down to earth group.

Interestingly, I dropped by my local indie dealer / service center that deals with "high end" sporting cars, mostly German, to show them my new car and chat a bit since they are a Dinan Dealer. He loves the 2-Series but can't move them as it is a relatively small subset of drivers that is willing to buy a "small" performance coupe like the 2-Series. In a way, I feel we are quite fortunate that BMW imports these to the USA, given the rather low volume; one would presume this is a "stepping stone" car in some respects from BMW's perspective. From my perspective, we are likely getting the best model line from BMW for pure driving, a bit of a throwback to the "Ultimate Driving Machine" days. Food for thought...

[Ron Jeffries]

I could afford anything BMW makes except an i8. I could probably afford one of those, but my wife would kill me. I chose the 2 series, not as an entry level car but because of its combination of driving fun, technical quality, luxury, and ability to put the top down. The 4 series is the size of a truck, and the 6 seems to be longer still.

I think the 2 is the best driver's car BMW makes.

[B58togo]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

So the year in which one makes these generalisations influences the generalisation?

Next week: 230i owners are unemployed badge seekers, perhaps! But not this week; this week they are enthusiasts seeking value.

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

But how do you know if the driver of an M235i that went past you bought it new, or used? Does one need to grab a megaphone and ask? And with brand new cars given away on crazy cheap lease deals (the M240i here for example is actually cheaper, all else being equal, than a 230i, and I bet it’s a similar story elsewhere where leasing is the norm), aren’t all of these cars more or less equally affordable?

Some brilliant prejudices coming to light in this thread - keep em coming. What about people with ATs? Lazy badge slobs (if bought before Sept 30 2017) or downtrodden consumers suffering manufacturer intransigence (if bought from 1 Oct on)?

Some funny stuff right here!

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Unicorn123

In a way, I feel we are quite fortunate that BMW imports these to the USA, given the rather low volume...From my perspective, we are likely getting the best model line from BMW for pure driving, a bit of a throwback to the "Ultimate Driving Machine" days.

I heartily endorse both of these points.

Supporting data for the first point (US data only - up-to-date US & Canadian data can be found at http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2014/01...es-usa-canada/):



The US sales totals by year are:

2014: 7,345
2015: 13,020
2016: 15,519
2017: 11,737
2018: 7,916 (through October - my take is that 2018 is going to come in around 9,200 units sold in the US)

FWIW, 3 Series sales in the US have dropped by 2/3 since 2015.

[Maynard]

And I think everybody hates that puny gas tank - two or three more gallons would've killed them?

[B58togo]

^^

Current gas tank is fine. This car is a couple hundred pounds heavier than I'd like, so I'll pass on the extra 12-18 lbs that another 2-3 gallons of gas would add.

[Avex]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

But how do you know if the driver of an M235i that went past you bought it new, or used? Does one need to grab a megaphone and ask? And with brand new cars given away on crazy cheap lease deals (the M240i here for example is actually cheaper, all else being equal, than a 230i, and I bet it’s a similar story elsewhere where leasing is the norm), aren’t all of these cars more or less equally affordable?

Some brilliant prejudices coming to light in this thread - keep em coming. What about people with ATs? Lazy badge slobs (if bought before Sept 30 2017) or downtrodden consumers suffering manufacturer intransigence (if bought from 1 Oct on)?

valid points, i guess being in a different country and town does change a few socioeconomic factors that are taken into consideration, car leasing isn't as rampant especially where i live and most people tend to buy cars within their means. Again I agree this is a blanket statement, but i feel a thread with the word 'stereotype' in its title gives us some level of freedom to discuss perceived generalisations without feeling we are personally launching attacks on any particular group of owners. I largely prefer that against the misnomer 'prejudice' as some of these personal views have no negative connotations whatsoever.

[morphomeman]

The problem arises when one applies the type, valid or not, to the individual. It is of course much worse when the type is not truly valid, at which point it becomes a stereotype. it is always bad to apply a stereotype to an individual, no matter how positive one feels the generalization is.
It may be good for a person to be smart, but it is still not good to assume that all individual members of a certain group are smart.
With all these cars, BMW has demographics that characterize the average buyer of a given model new at the dealer, which helps when they are marketing a vehicle, but that tells us nothing certain about the individual buyer, and nothing at all about those who buy the car used.
Using a stereotype to make a decision about an individual is almost never very reliable.

[MarcoZandrini]

Me? I'm in my 60s, retired military and retired private work force. Bought my M240i after 17 years of owning a 2001 330Ci. I live in the metro Washington DC area, home to the worst drivers (except for south Floriduh). I learned to drive in northern California so I adhere to the speed limits on secondary roads, and go with the flow+ on the highways. Locals (locos) do just the opposite: they speed on secondary roads and block the left lane of the highway! BTW, "DC" as in "Washington, DC" stands for the Latin phrase "driverus crappititus."

My wife and I were in the bay area during the summer. What a pleasure to share the road with adults.

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by Avex

valid points, i guess being in a different country and town does change a few socioeconomic factors that are taken into consideration, car leasing isn't as rampant especially where i live and most people tend to buy cars within their means. Again I agree this is a blanket statement, but i feel a thread with the word 'stereotype' in its title gives us some level of freedom to discuss perceived generalisations without feeling we are personally launching attacks on any particular group of owners. I largely prefer that against the misnomer 'prejudice' as some of these personal views have no negative connotations whatsoever.

Perhaps not - but it (prejudice) always comes next. Also despite BMW’s reputation here - more or less the same as in other English-speaking countries - it’s not possible to affix any kind of stereotype. Young, old, man, woman, blonde, brunette, grey (in my case) - everyone seems to drive them.

Don’t ever remember seeing one being hooned around either - that’s more 1 and 3 behaviour, I get tailgated by plenty of those! If I was to label 2 series owners, it would be “considerate”!

[Unicorn123]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

Perhaps not - but it (prejudice) always comes next. Also despite BMW’s reputation here - more or less the same as in other English-speaking countries - it’s not possible to affix any kind of stereotype. Young, old, man, woman, blonde, brunette, grey (in my case) - everyone seems to drive them.

Don’t ever remember seeing one being hooned around either - that’s more 1 and 3 behaviour, I get tailgated by plenty of those! If I was to label 2 series owners, it would be “considerate”!

Agreed, Scott. As noted previously, IMHO the 2 series is the best pure ride (define this as you wish) you can get from a current "consumer grade" BMW, if you like a driver's car in your stable. Not an expert, just the SOP talking...So it applies to anyone who appreciates driving and the pleasure it brings. Although you can have the same experience with an Alfa GTV, a big Healey or a Mazda 3, for a modern car, it seems to tick the right boxes. If I were to generalize, the 2-Series (based upon my reading of this forum since I have only seen one since I bought mine on the road) is driven by people who actually have a solid handle on driving techniques, road discipline and precision in driving practice. Probably a couple of "hooner's" out there in the 2-Series population, but you cannot defy what I call the "A-Hole" curve, whereby 5% of any population will fall into this grouping. Think of it as a behavioral bell curve. This is not a quantitative analysis for the statisticians out there...

Regarding hooning, I presume you are not referring to excessive drinking...

I know here on my daily commute in Connecticut, hooning is a real issue that causes me to consume and distribute large quantities of valuable Rain-X washer fluid... and unfortunately, leads to daily wrecks on the local interstate highway (typically in any weather) and more often then not, a Lifestar helicopter or multiple ambulances and fire prevention trucks. Pretty sad...

[Estoril6rod]

That M235i stereotype... I'M OFFENDED. GIVE ME SOME SAFE SPACE PLEASE!

I think you should "stereotype" the M235i owner group depending on what year they bought it.. I bought mine in 2015 just a few months after the car was initially released and while I have done a few modifications to the car (hardware mostly) I've kept it to what I consider an M division engineer would do if it were his car. Cool concept, got expensive pretty quick haha. I also use my signals A LOT and park within the lines, I did well in kindergarden.

Now... flash forward to 2018 and these cars (used of course) can be had for a decent enough price to allow a younger crowd in... unfortunately not always the best... don't want to generalize but these 20yr olds will want a tight stance and MAX BURBLES to go along with that floor scraping CF lib they bought off ebay and is now turning yellow. They are also massive fans of Liberty Walk.

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by Estoril6rod

That M235i stereotype... I'M OFFENDED. GIVE ME SOME SAFE SPACE PLEASE!

I think you should "stereotype" the M235i owner group depending on what year they bought it.. I bought mine in 2015 just a few months after the car was initially released and while I have done a few modifications to the car (hardware mostly) I've kept it to what I consider an M division engineer would do if it were his car. Cool concept, got expensive pretty quick haha. I also use my signals A LOT and park within the lines, I did well in kindergarden.

Now... flash forward to 2018 and these cars (used of course) can be had for a decent enough price to allow a younger crowd in... unfortunately not always the best... don't want to generalize but these 20yr olds will want a tight stance and MAX BURBLES to go along with that floor scraping CF lib they bought off ebay and is now turning yellow. They are also massive fans of Liberty Walk.

You need to start looking for 12-month leases to get out of cars before people start buying ‘em used and giving you a reputation!

Flash forward 3 years... lol. 3 years is less than one half of a model cycle.

[Mr Carrots]

My (3!) coworkers who have 240s are late 20 / early 30 somethings who wanted a fun BMW

They all lease and never think of modding

I assume they're all in my income bracket but their leases were a lot higher than my finance payments, however none of them are married with a 2nd car payment lmao

[Estoril6rod]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

You need to start looking for 12-month leases to get out of cars before people start buying ‘em used and giving you a reputation!

Flash forward 3 years... lol. 3 years is less than one half of a model cycle.

Yeah man, it's like geez give me at least 5 years before things start to go downhill with the M235i owners crowd hahaha

I still enjoy the car a lot though, fortunately a true enthusiast will always be able to tell when you are modding for performance or functionality vs modding for the 40 second burbles

[Rolf14]

With regards to age, I break the stereotype. 61 y/o owner of an Alpine White 2014 228i M Sport. As the M240i group, I also own an E46, a Touring that I use every day (192K miles). Bought the 2 CPO with 36K miles, and an alcantara steering wheel that I am still unsure of (the heater had to be disconnected) but, so far, nobody wants to trade for an original one. Only minor mods: two sets of wheels (one staggered - UHP, the other squared – all season) both RFT for the convenience; replaced “228” in trunk with black-out “F22” (most people do not know what that is); carbon fiber vinyl in all interior gray plastics; upgraded speakers and removed center channel speaker on the HK system, which I find good enough (see “Stop Worrying & Live w the Harmon Kardon System”); and installed the Technic Active Sound removal harness. Best mod: Uniden R3 radar detector. As the 230i M Sport group, I love having fun in twisty roads – plenty of those my area (northern Alabama, the Tail of the Dragon is 3 hours away…) – but in sport mode. I keep my driving skills honed in BMWCCA activities. Driving on Eco Mode on the interstates (usually cruise control at 77) gives me around 400 miles per tank. The 2er is also able to go into the higher reaches of the speedometer rather quickly (I am not admitting anything, this is not an admission). The reason for buying it is also stereotypical: I wanted the feeling I remember after having owned two 2002s and a 1987 E30 325is; and I like the size and design of the M Sport. Tested a 235 but the front-end weight was noticeable. The fact that the 6-cylinder can accelerate faster (what, 2-3 seconds faster to 60?) did not impress me, as I did not buy a BMW to drag. Automatic, after having driven the manual 325is for years in Puerto Rico traffic. Loaded with most electronic goodies available in 2014. I find the real traffic feature useful: it saved me from an especially bad traffic jam in the Atlanta area, sending me through a surprisingly twisty and empty side-road. I am currently getting ready to drive to visit my Son in New Mexico, so I might be testing the car is snowy conditions (will use the squared tire set). No complains about the car. I actually giggle when I read the people complaining in this Forum, including the new “Things I hate” column. Regarding bad drivers, I finally learned (with age) a fail-safe technic when driving in the city: drive slower so I have more time to react to bad situations. Making plans to change for an M2, just for the looks.

[fg9ze]

Originally Posted by MarkDemma

M240i - Probably a middle aged bloke who most likely owned an E46 3 series coupe and thought that the new 4 series was “too big”. Loves their M240, but does complain about the steering and small gas tank. Lightly modified, maybe LSD and Dinan tune. Has taken it to the track once or twice “just to say I’ve done it.” Usually drives in Sport Mode. Would rather drive a low milage E46 M3 but it’s a close call.

Breaking this stereotype. I’m in my late 20s and wanted a car to replace the 135is I bought a year earlier. I loved the 135is, but I wanted a more comfortable (but still fun) daily driver (and a manual car before they become extinct). Oddly enough, I now miss the sweet sweet exhaust burbles on the 135is. I haven’t modded the car, but I’m thinking about getting the MPE. You are right on 1 point: I usually drive in Sport Mode!