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      04-08-2016, 05:55 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by kdog26372 View Post
Ok, so got around to installing the JL Audio C2-400x coaxes in the rear deck. Pretty straightforward installation. Take off grills using a thin plastic trim tool starting with a front corner and once that pops the rest just come off with ease. Take off 3 torx head screws using in my case a small allen like wrench individual torx. Can't use screwdriver type torx as you'll hit the back window, too tall. Then you simply use pliers to full out both clips to 4 inch speaker. The one wire will have a black grommet on it and go to the HK tweeter, tuck that one away and leave HK tweeter in place. Then plug in JL speaker using Ebay adapter using search BMW OEM Speaker Connector Harness Pigtail. It's $10 and says only 1 adapter, but there are 2 in box, so I ended up buying an extra that wasn't needed. You'll need to bend off 2 of the 4 JL tabs to mount the new speaker. I just used 2 screws and it was very secure. Easiest to do with seats folded down as headrest would be in way. 15 minutes and done if you have the tools handy.

Next is testing the sound. I have the HK system with no other mods. So just replaced the rear decks. As expected these speakers have a lower sensitivity when compared to the HK speakers up front, thus I needed to shift the fader to the rear to about the 65-70% range. Then main system volume will naturally need to be about 25% higher than you're used to get same volume level.

The sounds is substantially better. Simply put the soundstage appears to be around the front of your face rather than the front dashboard. The sounds is much more full particularly in the midrange and if I move the fader 100% to the back and turn volume 70% there's actually some base punch to be felt/heard whereas the HK were always garbage and tiny sounding. I can see how matching this with changing the fronts too would be a good combo, but I'd think the center would need to be changed or disconnected too if you went that route, maybe I'm wrong, but low sensitivity door speakers and high sensitivity center I'd think the center/worst speaker would be the dominating force up front in that setup.

All in all, a solid improvement for about $100. Side note, the HK speakers weigh next to nothing and appear to be complete garbage.
I'm glad you had the same reaction as I did. This is a big improvement for very little money and, as Viffermike says, if/when you do the fronts you'll be even happier.
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      04-09-2016, 10:21 AM   #24
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Thanks to all on this thread with the help and suggestions. I feel there is a lot people that assume things, repeat what they read somewhere else, then chime in with misinformed information. I was told numerous times replacing the rears would be; a waste of time, make no difference, turn the active sound into a nightmare, etc.

All of this was hearsay as it is impactful and is such an easy/cheap change. After seeing how crappy the HK speakers are, I feel obligated to my ears and car to replace the fronts sooner than later, but right now I'm happy with this simple under 1/2 hour swap. I'd probably pay someone to do the doors as that looks a little more involved and my garage fits my car only, no room to work really.

I see no real reason to replace the stock HK amp as it appears to deliver plenty of power when matched with quality speakers in this small interior car. Probably not true for the audiophile crowd, but then I listen to Spotify streaming and they would thumb their nose at that too.
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      04-09-2016, 10:48 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog26372 View Post
Thanks to all on this thread with the help and suggestions. I feel there is a lot people that assume things, repeat what they read somewhere else, then chime in with misinformed information. I was told numerous times replacing the rears would be; a waste of time, make no difference, turn the active sound into a nightmare, etc.

All of this was hearsay as it is impactful and is such an easy/cheap change. After seeing how crappy the HK speakers are, I feel obligated to my ears and car to replace the fronts sooner than later, but right now I'm happy with this simple under 1/2 hour swap. I'd probably pay someone to do the doors as that looks a little more involved and my garage fits my car only, no room to work really.

I see no real reason to replace the stock HK amp as it appears to deliver plenty of power when matched with quality speakers in this small interior car. Probably not true for the audiophile crowd, but then I listen to Spotify streaming and they would thumb their nose at that too.
I'm glad this worked out.

Speaking as a member of the audiophile crowd, I've been working on improving my home stereo system for decades and I can live with the changes suggested above, using the existing electronics. I'm sure that both the Hi-Fi and the HK systems can be made to sound better but these changes produce a very creditable sound without spending thousands more.

Last edited by selmeralto; 04-09-2016 at 05:54 PM..
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      04-09-2016, 05:33 PM   #26
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Planned on spending the day in the garage making all of these updates. Who knew that my wife's idea of helping her in the garden "for a bit" would take all day. And on Sunday I'm doing a full 4 wheel brake job on my daughter's Mazda6. Maybe next week.

And Sunday is meatballs and gravy day so I need a good 2 hours to get that going.
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      04-09-2016, 07:00 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog26372 View Post
Next is testing the sound. I have the HK system with no other mods. So just replaced the rear decks. As expected these speakers have a lower sensitivity when compared to the HK speakers up front, thus I needed to shift the fader to the rear to about the 65-70% range. Then main system volume will naturally need to be about 25% higher than you're used to get same volume level.

The sounds is substantially better. Simply put the soundstage appears to be around the front of your face rather than the front dashboard. The sounds is much more full particularly in the midrange and if I move the fader 100% to the back and turn volume 70% there's actually some base punch to be felt/heard whereas the HK were always garbage and tiny sounding. I can see how matching this with changing the fronts too would be a good combo, but I'd think the center would need to be changed or disconnected too if you went that route, maybe I'm wrong, but low sensitivity door speakers and high sensitivity center I'd think the center/worst speaker would be the dominating force up front in that setup.

All in all, a solid improvement for about $100. Side note, the HK speakers weigh next to nothing and appear to be complete garbage.
My settings are pretty close to yours, except that I've boosted the treble with the new installation. The stock HK tweeters were really over the top so I had to turn them way down when I was running the stock HK system. If you replace your fronts you may find that you'll want to increase the treble to taste.

Current settings:

Treble: one notch below full.
Bass: flat or one notch below flat.
Balance: centered or one notch toward passenger side.
Fader: two notches toward back.

I have a few tunes that are *really* bass-enhanced. I cut back the bass setting for these.

And, as you say, I'm running the volume a little higher than I did with the original HK system. But even at very loud levels I don't have any sense that the system is under stress. No distortion that I can hear.
(Revised settings in Post 140, below.)

Regarding the Underseat Woofers


Still trying to decide whether to go for replacement woofers. The Bavsound Ghost set is currently $497 - which is more than my entire system transformations to date. Eton offers a woofer (B195 NEO) that comes in at about $500 for the pair. Right now I find it hard to believe that I'd have enough improvement to warrant the cost. The bass is pretty solid right now.

I'd be interested in hearing from other HK folks about the effects of replacing the woofers. I did read somewhere that at least one forum member (Zooks527?) thought the difference at least for the Bavsound Ghost wasn't huge.

There have also been suggestions that the HK amp just doesn't have the juice to drive a more power-hungry woofer and that putting in a better woofer might actually result in damage to the amp and/or the woofer.

(Update: I was wrong: it was Cloud IX who raised my suspicions about whether changing out the woofers is worth it. The discussion is at http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1209949 . Also Viffermike at http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showt...php?p=19725706 ).

So as I write this note the jury is still out on the matter of woofer replacement.

My initial goal was to improve the sound while keeping the costs minimal. I think I'll hold off until I hear from more people that changing the HK sub in fact makes a significant difference.)


(But see now posts 159 & 160, below.)

Last edited by selmeralto; 08-13-2016 at 06:57 AM..
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      04-09-2016, 08:23 PM   #28
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I decided to test the center disconnect tweak for myself as well as setting the fader setting a few notches back: Wow! That made quite a significant difference!

The center speaker disconnect is a must for me. It is overly load and obnoxious when it's connected and as others have pointed out, it's not a "real" center speaker, but just a speaker that outputs a L+R front signal.

To make matters even better, changing the fader settings more towards the rear of the car, the sound stage improves significantly. For me it has also decreased listening fatigue.

This is probably the cheapest upgrade for the HK system.
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      04-11-2016, 02:04 PM   #29
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How does one remove the center speaker grill?
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      04-11-2016, 02:25 PM   #30
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How does one remove the center speaker grill?
Easy. Just get something to protect the dash - a folded dish towel will do. Lay it on the dash near a corner. Front right is easiest if you're right handed. Then use a prying tool to firmly pry up a corner. Ideally the tool should be something like a plastic kitchen spatula but in a pinch a flat head screwdriver will do. After the corner is slightly pried up just firmly lift on the corner with your fingers and work around the grill as the hooks detach themselves from the dash. After you've disconnected the speaker just carefully reverse the procedure. You want to avoid scratching the metal grill, marking up the dash, and, when you're putting the grill back, misaligning and bending the hooks. Go slowly and you'll be just fine.

Last edited by selmeralto; 04-11-2016 at 07:30 PM..
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      04-13-2016, 07:03 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selmeralto
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
How does one remove the center speaker grill?
Easy. Just get something to protect the dash - a folded dish towel will do. Lay it on the dash near a corner. Front right is easiest if you're right handed. Then use a prying tool to firmly pry up a corner. Ideally the tool should be something like a plastic kitchen spatula but in a pinch a flat head screwdriver will do. After the corner is slightly pried up just firmly lift on the corner with your fingers and work around the grill as the hooks detach themselves from the dash. After you've disconnected the speaker just carefully reverse the procedure. You want to avoid scratching the metal grill, marking up the dash, and, when you're putting the grill back, misaligning and bending the hooks. Go slowly and you'll be just fine.


Awesome. I'm going to do this tonight. Thanks!
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      04-13-2016, 07:38 PM   #32
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Awesome. I'm going to do this tonight. Thanks!
A pleasure. Let us know how it goes.
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      04-14-2016, 03:22 PM   #33
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disconnect center speaker

I just disconnected my center speaker and that simple fix has made a big difference for the better. I've got my replacement speakers sitting in the garage waiting on a few spare hours but I would urge everyone to give the disconnect a try. It takes all of 10 minutes and is completely reversible if you don't like it. The three screws that hold the speaker in will require a short torx key or bit to remove. I forget what size it was.
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      04-15-2016, 10:19 AM   #34
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I removed the grille over the center speaker in the dash expecting to disconnect one speaker and found two. Is this different than what others have found?
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      04-15-2016, 10:35 AM   #35
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What about just disconnecting the harsh tweeter and leaving the 4 inch plugged in? Just a thought but that would reduce the center's biggest issue to me and that's that harsh tweeter taking over the sound. I may give that a go if it's a 10 minute process.
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      04-15-2016, 11:19 AM   #36
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I removed the grille over the center speaker in the dash expecting to disconnect one speaker and found two. Is this different than what others have found?
The one on the right is a crummy tweeter, the one on the left a crummy mid (sort of) range. My recollection is that in principle you could remove the feed to the tweeter but honestly, the unit is not a true, dedicated center channel but only a mix of L+R, not to mention the fact that the quality of the speakers is so poor. You're really better off just eliminating the center sound entirely.

Last edited by selmeralto; 08-10-2016 at 07:08 AM..
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      04-15-2016, 11:21 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog26372 View Post
What about just disconnecting the harsh tweeter and leaving the 4 inch plugged in? Just a thought but that would reduce the center's biggest issue to me and that's that harsh tweeter taking over the sound. I may give that a go if it's a 10 minute process.
The issue isn't so much that the center channel speakers are crummy: the issue is that it absolutely ruins the car's soundstage.

Just unplug it. ALL of it. You'll be happy you did.
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      04-18-2016, 10:14 AM   #38
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+1 on this. Did it yesterday and the difference (even on the stock HK) is significant. I have the mid/tweeter setup pictured above, only had to disconnect the mid. The tweeter is wired to the mid (not separately). I presume there's a capacitor in there somewhere to function as a crossover, but if you disconnect the mid, both are disconnected from the system. No need to pull both speakers.

Next: ASD bypass harness.
Then: JL's in the rear and then I'll start thinking about the doors.
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      04-18-2016, 10:38 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
+1 on this. Did it yesterday and the difference (even on the stock HK) is significant. I have the mid/tweeter setup pictured above, only had to disconnect the mid. The tweeter is wired to the mid (not separately). I presume there's a capacitor in there somewhere to function as a crossover, but if you disconnect the mid, both are disconnected from the system. No need to pull both speakers.

Next: ASD bypass harness.
Then: JL's in the rear and then I'll start thinking about the doors.
For my tastes, the tweeters are the worst culprit in the HK setup. I find them harsh, fatiguing, unnatural sounding, and downright unpleasant. Since the change is so easy to make you might want to consider listening to the system as you have it for a week or two and then disconnect the tweeter to compare.
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      04-18-2016, 11:44 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selmeralto
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Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
+1 on this. Did it yesterday and the difference (even on the stock HK) is significant. I have the mid/tweeter setup pictured above, only had to disconnect the mid. The tweeter is wired to the mid (not separately). I presume there's a capacitor in there somewhere to function as a crossover, but if you disconnect the mid, both are disconnected from the system. No need to pull both speakers.

Next: ASD bypass harness.
Then: JL's in the rear and then I'll start thinking about the doors.
For my tastes, the tweeters are the worst culprit in the HK setup. I find them harsh, fatiguing, unnatural sounding, and downright unpleasant. Since the change is so easy to make you might want to consider listening to the system as you have it for a week or two and then disconnect the tweeter to compare.
Tweeter is disconnected. What I was trying to say is that disconnecting the mid disconnects the tweeter too. in other words, no need to pull it to disconnect it.
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      04-18-2016, 12:30 PM   #41
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Tweeter is disconnected. What I was trying to say is that disconnecting the mid disconnects the tweeter too. in other words, no need to pull it to disconnect it.
Ah, right you are. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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      04-18-2016, 02:51 PM   #42
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Just did the center speaker disconnect. Very easy to do and a noticeable improvement in sound quality. The torx driver is a T15.
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      04-22-2016, 06:22 PM   #43
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So far I've 1) disconnected the center channel, 2) installed active sound defeat harness, 3) installed about 15 sq feet of Dynamat Extreme in the trunk and 4) replaced the rear speakers with JL Audio C2.

The improvement so far is significant. Just cranked up a Tower of Power CD. Makes me want to search Craigslist for a '76 Trans Am.

I have the bass flat, treble 2 clicks up, balance centered, fader 3 clicks back.

I have the Eton door speakers in the garage waiting for me next.

It just occurred to me that years ago I disconnected the center dash speaker in my 2004 Saab 9-5 as well. Forgot all about that.

I had a 2013 Infiniti G37 with the Bose stereo option and that was no better than the HK in my F22. Should have pulled the center speaker in that one too!
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      04-22-2016, 06:38 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanATL View Post
So far I've 1) disconnected the center channel, 2) installed active sound defeat harness, 3) installed about 15 sq feet of Dynamat Extreme in the trunk and 4) replaced the rear speakers with JL Audio C2.

The improvement so far is significant. Just cranked up a Tower of Power CD. Makes me want to search Craigslist for a '76 Trans Am.

I have the bass flat, treble 2 clicks up, balance centered, fader 3 clicks back.

I have the Eton door speakers in the garage waiting for me next.

It just occurred to me that years ago I disconnected the center dash speaker in my 2004 Saab 9-5 as well. Forgot all about that.

I had a 2013 Infiniti G37 with the Bose stereo option and that was no better than the HK in my F22. Should have pulled the center speaker in that one too!
I'm glad this is working out for you. The Etons aren't as treble crazy as the HKs with their steroid-tweeters but the JL Audio speakers have a strong upper end so my settings are very close to yours, putting some signal toward the rear speakers. I think you'll be happy when you're done and you play around with the Tone controls.
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