[530iAndroid]

After months of research into all sorts of options for upgrading my 2018 F22 HiFi system, I thought that I finally came up with an acceptable solution but am now confused again.

I spoke with Bavsound sales on the phone wanting to know if I can install the component stage one upgrade that was intended for HK systems if I add the HK sails. What I wanted to know was if the HK sails are the only thing preventing me from adding the component system instead of the coaxials.

The answer that I was given is that the only option for me is to go with the coaxial upgrade because the F22 is unlike any other model and that these speakers are all which the stock amp will support.

I then mentioned that it's not a concern of mine since I was already assuming that the Bimmertech amp will be needed to get the most out of a speaker upgrade. Their sales rep told me that the Bimmertech amp is not offered as an option to use alongside the coaxials due to some "undocumented issues" during testing. Does anyone know what he is talking about? I thought the HiFi system was precisely the system that it was intended for and that the HK system may actually have issues with it (not the other way around).

After reading this forum for months, and seeing countless members use the Bimmertech amp with Bavsound speakers and having relatively few issues, I was surprised to hear this.

Sure enough, I now no longer see the Bimmertech amp listed as an option for sale for my exact vehicle. I could have sworn it was available just a few days ago but I may be mistaken.

The Bavsound sales rep had no information to explain this supposed incompatibility other than it having to do with the 'sensitivity' of the speakers. I am not sure what that is supposed to mean exactly and I am not going to try to speculate too much either. Since the sales rep brought up the competing component speaker system from Bimmertech, perhaps they are trying to move away from carrying their product since it opening the door to too much competition?

I knew that Bimmertech offers their own Alpha One upgrade but I rather go with a proven system from a stateside company that's been in the BMW aftermarket speaker business a long time and has a good return policy (and warranty although adding an amp supposedly voids that).

Does anyone know what exactly changed or what I am misunderstanding about the pairing of Bimmertech amps with Bavsound systems?
I have seen amps with 2 different model numbers so are newer revisions maybe the problem whereas older ones are not?

Does anyone here have a bimmertech amp which they used to upgrade a HiFi system in an F22? Which speakers did you go with and what problems, if any did you encounter. I am not finding any F22 specific threads addressing these questions.

Any help is much appreciated. (That said please don't suggest a complete aftermarket solution like Focal speakers and JL amps, as that is outside the scope of this topic)

[tennisfreak]

I found myself in the same situation as you did, let me tell you about my experience.

I initially bought the Bavsound speaker and sub upgrade for my F22 HiFi system thinking it was a great start to making my 240 sound good.

After a month I decided I wanted more and looked into the Bimmertech amplifier.

(the following is 100% start-finish documented through email)
I emailed Bavsound this:

I bought your speaker and sub upgrade for my 2018 BMW m240i. I noticed you dont sell an amplifier but I can buy one directly from bimmertech.
I need to know what wattage the speakers I bought from you will support.

Response from them was this:

I don't have wattage info readily available but our speakers can easily handle the wattage from that Bimmertech amp. We actually sell that same amp everyday. We just don't carry it because we haven't personally tested it in your car. I'm 100% sure it will work but we just don't add it to our site until we've tested and created instructions etc.

Long story short, have no fear! Our Stage I will sound awesome with the Bimmertech amp : )

So take note they did not give me the speakers capacity just gave me a response that they could easily handle the bimmertech amplifier.

After getting the amplifier from Bimmertech, who supplied me with a tune for the HiFi system, I was not happy at all with the sound.
It was very muddy.

So then I thought maybe Bavsound could provide me with a tune that sounded better with their speakers.

I emailed them asking about a tune and was given this response:

If your vehicle didn't come with tweeters from the factory it would have our Co-Axial speakers supplied which aren't meant to take the additional power from a Standard Bimmer-Tech tune. I would be very cautious with the volumes used as our warranty does not cover the speakers when used with their amplifier in this case. Unfortunately at this time I don't have a tune available for your car, but you will need to go in and tweak the power to the midrange drivers to lower levels to get them sounding proper. If we end up writing a tune here I will make sure to let you know as well!

There was more back and fourth (If requested I will provide it) but basically they told me that if you pair their speakers with any amplifier not sold on their website you will void the speaker warranty as they cannot control the tune and output.

I dont think I have damaged my speakers as I have not tried pushing anything.
But I can say my speaker warranty is voided, I am not happy with how my system sounds, and I will need to take it to a custom tuner.

I am not happy with how Bavsound handled this because their first response was wrong and I bought a non returnable $900 amplifier based off bad information.
Then later they tell me:

I would not run the amplifier any longer without creating a custom tune file, and would pursue returning it if you don't feel confident doing so, or don't want to pay a local audio specialist to do so. Coby was providing coverage during a week that I was unavailable, and is likely not aware of the 2 Series situation with Standard Audio cars not having tweeters, as this currently only affects the 2 Series and is very much an exception to the rule. As of now it's unlikely you have caused any damage to the speakers, but I wanted to give some weight to the situation as continuing to play the speakers while they sound "awful" will almost certainly damage them further.

I would never have bought the amplifier had I knows that.

But they didnt care because it wasnt their money spent.
All is not lost. I'll just have to spend even more money now if I can find a local tuner that knows how to take advantage of this amplifier and its software.

MY ADVICE:
Do not buy speakers from Bavsound.
1. They only support the factory amplifier
2. Their product and customer support is sub-par.

[530iAndroid]

For what it’s worth, I think Coby learned his lesson/was instructed to no longer make that mistake.

tennisfreak, I appreiate you sharing your experience. While I understand that Bavsound can’t control what Bimmertech does and isn’t the manufacturer of those amps, I think BavSound ultimately made a mistake and is causing you to eat it. It is irrelevant if Cody wasn’t well informed. He is an agent of the company. The information he provided to you was rightfully relied upon since he is the ‘expert’. How much expertise he actually had is irrelevant. As part of his job function he advises people on their car audio. Even if BavSound didn’t sell the Bimmertech amp themselves, it is entirely forseable that customers calling in and asking about compatibility would rely on what they say. Despite what people on the forums will claim, as soon as Cody made that statement the responsibility shifted from you to them. Had you just taken a gamble without asking them, it would have been the own responsibility but you did your due diligence and asked them. Most of their customers are not audio experts and they do rely on the company to give them accurate information. BavSound should at the very least offer you a refund for your speakers.

All that said, it wouldn’t detract me from doing business with them. As soon as I spoke to Cody myself, I could immediately tell that he was trained to promote the brand first and foremost and is not an expert in hardware installation. When asked more difficult questions he did consult with someone else before giving me an answer (albeit a somewhat canned response) and I think this may be a direct result of your past dealings with them. This doesn’t rectify your problem but at the least they have changed their practices.

Unfortunately that leaves me still wondering what is and isn’t actually compatible. Cody told me that the component speakers are not available for the HiFi system because those require an amp. Well, that’s precisely what I was expecting and I want to know whether or not I can install the component upgrade by adding teeeter wings and adding the Bimmertech amp. BavSound is of course reluctant to now advise me to do anything that may turn into another ordeal like the one tennisfreak had.

So, who here is and expert or knows from personal experience that you can add the component Stage One speakers (which were intended for HK systems) to a HiFi system alongside a Bimmertech amp? And if so, is there a tune available for this or will it require coming up with a custom tune. I don’t know how to tune a system aside from making basic EQ adjustments.

[tennisfreak]

I am glad to hear they are getting better about their responses.

What would be nice is for them to give me the speaker specifications which they just will not do.

Even Jeremy who I ended up talking to in the end would not give me the specifications to the speakers.

He told me to go to a local shop and get a custom tune by an experienced tuner to make sure the amplifier did not damage the speakers.

How will anyone, even a professional, be able to tune the speakers right if they dont know the response ranges, RMS, and max wattages????

The reluctance of providing speaker specifications after multiple inquires of a paying customer leaves me wondering about the quality of their product and still questioning their customer support.

[240Edi]

I did the first part of your plan. I bought component bavsound stage 1 and subs second hand along with the sail panels. I installed all the speakers in my HiFi car. Just needed to buy a few screws for the tweeters, everything else worked. The rear speaker covers are also solid instead of mesh over the tweeter location on the HiFi car. I looked the HK version of them up and they are over $100, not worth it.

The sound is much improved, and not problematic. I set it up the best I could with the treble, bass and fade adjustments available. For sure the under-seat subs are under-powered by the stock amp, and I would like more control over the sound.

I am curious to find out about the next step, but I am not interested in upgrading the amp myself for now.

[530iAndroid]

If the rear speaker cover is blocking the sound of the tweeter then I think I might as well get coaxials. Since the sound bounces off te rear glass anyway I don’t think there can be much of a benefit of having separate tweeters.

To me a new amp is almost more important than new speakers. I would like to avoid all the horrible compression that the stock amp does to my lossless and 320kbps Spotify music.

[Micah D. Cranman]

There's a lot to cover in here, but first and foremost, tennisfreak, I want to sincerely apologize that your experience with us here at Bavsound was less than stellar. We are human, and much to our dismay, we sometimes make mistakes.

This is one of those times where we dropped the ball and gave you the wrong information, and you made a decision based on that that really impacted you. Coby, who you spoke with, has primarily operated in a marketing role in our organization historically, and only recently has shifted to sales and support, resulting in the incorrect information being relayed (as in 99% of vehicles, our "Standard Hi-Fi" Stage One is compatible with the BimmerTech amp, and this is literally the only exception -- and the one exception about which Coby was unaware).

I also want to apologize that our support structures when you reached at later haven't met your needs. I'm the CEO, and I take failures within the company seriously -- however rare -- and you (or anyone else) can email me at any time at micah@bavsound.com. I'm extremely busy, so I may not respond right away, but I WILL respond and I'm happy to help.

With regard to your particular situation, here's what we can do:

1. Return the kit you purchased to us, and purchase the "Harman Kardon" kit instead, which would include separate mids + tweeters. Given the trouble you've dealt with, we're happy to do this for you at no cost and cover shipping both directions. If you'll provide us with the part numbers, we'll even purchase the necessary trim panels for tweeter installation and send them to you.
2. Return your kit for a full refund -- we'll do that for you if that's what you decide. We hope you won't, but we can simply send you a PayPal payment for the full purchase price if desired once we receive the product.
3. Send us the receipt for the BT amplifier showing the amount you paid, send it to us, and we'll refund you the purchase price of the amplifier instead since you can't return it to BimmerTech.

As for the specs, quite frankly, we generally don't share them as many of our customers aren't savvy with audio and confuse themselves by thinking "more watts = MORE POWERRRRRR." Our speakers are very efficient, resulting in lower than "typical" power handling ratings seen in the car audio world, even though they're excellent performers (at least, in our opinion ).

As a result we are hesitant to share specs because we so often see customers thinking the wattage rating of a speaker is like the wattage rating of an amp, and don't realize they aren't making an apples to apples comparison -- or that the wattage rating may not be meaningful in the context of an OEM style replacement.

That said, you've asked, so here they are:

Diameter: 4 in"
Weight: 355g
Impedance: 4 Ohm + or - 10%
Resonance Frequency: 95Hz + or - 15%
Frequency Response: 95Hz to 20K Hz
Sensitivity: 85 + or - 2dB at 1M with 1W input
Power handling: 18W RMS

For those wondering why the coaxial we offer have such low power handling, it's a function of their use being PRIMARILY in vehicles with "Base" audio which have extremely low power output, with the 2 Series being the sole exception to that rule.

All that said, I hope the above resolves your issues. I'm not on the forums much due to my other work obligations and how busy they keep me (thank you customers! ), but happened across this thread randomly and wanted to make sure you were served. That said, you can reach out to me directly at the email above and I'll take care of whatever route you choose to resolve this issue. I probably won't see additional replies in this thread, so I apologize for that in advance.

Rock on!

[Viffermike]

Bra-VO, Micah D. Cranman !

Many thanks for contributing to what has become a rat's nest of misinformation in this subforum because of tennisfreak 's unfortunate experience -- which myself and several others tried, mostly in vain, to tell him wasn't totally BavSound's fault.

We really, really appreciate the candor and technical info on the coaxials!

[Questofthetune]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Bra-VO, Micah D. Cranman !

Many thanks for contributing to what has become a rat's nest of misinformation in this subforum because of tennisfreak 's unfortunate experience -- which myself and several others tried, mostly in vain, to tell him wasn't totally BavSound's fault.

We really, really appreciate the candor and technical info on the coaxials!

I don’t mind if someone’s at fault if they come back and fix it which they have in spades and then some now. Mistakes are okay haha

[Micah D. Cranman]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Bra-VO, Micah D. Cranman !

Many thanks for contributing to what has become a rat's nest of misinformation in this subforum because of tennisfreak 's unfortunate experience -- which myself and several others tried, mostly in vain, to tell him wasn't totally BavSound's fault.

We really, really appreciate the candor and technical info on the coaxials!

Of course -- I truly wish we had the time to frequent these forums more and correct these issues when they arise instead of after the fact. We really do try to make everyone happy, but we make mistakes, like any group of humans. That said, we do our best to make it right in all circumstances.

Ultimately, we see our job as being the delivery of joy -- be it through an enhanced experience of music, or great experiences dealing with our team. Which is why we take these kinds of situations seriously.

Let it be known that any time ANY of you experience a customer support failure, you're always welcome to contact me directly via email.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

Of course -- I truly wish we had the time to frequent these forums more and correct these issues when they arise instead of after the fact. We really do try to make everyone happy, but we make mistakes, like any group of humans. That said, we do our best to make it right in all circumstances.

Ultimately, we see our job as being the delivery of joy -- be it through an enhanced experience of music, or great experiences dealing with our team. Which is why we take these kinds of situations seriously.

Let it be known that any time ANY of you experience a customer support failure, you're always welcome to contact me directly via email.

I can personally vouch for Micah being a very solid dude and VERY patient with customers who don't have any idea what the hell they are buying or installing. Not me... some guy I know

[chemh0ser]

I don’t know if I’m in the minority but I have the Bavsound stage one for my hk system with the bimmertech amp. Once I found the correct tune I was very happy with the sound in my 2015 M235. Also there was quite a difference once the speakers had time to break in.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by chemh0ser

I don’t know if I’m in the minority but I have the Bavsound stage one for my hk system with the bimmertech amp. Once I found the correct tune I was very happy with the sound in my 2015 M235. Also there was quite a difference once the speakers had time to break in.

I love mine. And as much as tennisfreak had trouble going rogue, so to speak, I had the opposite experience when I went out of bounds. I added a JL amp and Focal rear sub and the guys were super helpful. Micah and Jason both helped me figure that out and get it installed. I've got similar setups in two cars now. Bavsound speakers and ghosts, Bimmertech amp, Focal sub and JL amp and it all works perfectly and sounds great.

[530iAndroid]

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

[LIST=1][*]Return the kit you purchased to us, and purchase the "Harman Kardon" kit instead, which would include separate mids + tweeters. Given the trouble you've dealt with, we're happy to do this for you at no cost and cover shipping both directions. If you'll provide us with the part numbers, we'll even purchase the necessary trim panels for tweeter installation and send them to you.

When you say “Harman Kardon kit”, I am assuming that you referring to your component speaker kit which you have listen on your website alongside the ‘Top HiFi’ name?

Am I understanding this correctly? Because if I am, then it hopefully answers my question which I can’t seem to get an answer for.

I am trying to find out if installing the Stage One component system, which is intended as a replacement for HK systems, can be installed with a Bimmertech amp in an F22 with only the HiFi system. Is this a fully recommended upgrade which not only doesn’t have issues but for which you have proper amp tunes available? I wouldn’t be able to properly tune the Bimmertech amp myself.

I want a Bimmertech amp and am therefore not able to add a ‘regular’ coaxial Stage One to my car so I need an answer to this.

If in fact this is something fully supported, how come it is not available as a package on the BavSound website? This leads people to believe that coaxial speakers are the only option for HiFi cars.

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by Micah D. Cranman

There's a lot to cover in here, but first and foremost, tennisfreak, I want to sincerely apologize that your experience with us here at Bavsound was less than stellar. We are human, and much to our dismay, we sometimes make mistakes.

This is one of those times where we dropped the ball and gave you the wrong information, and you made a decision based on that that really impacted you. Coby, who you spoke with, has primarily operated in a marketing role in our organization historically, and only recently has shifted to sales and support, resulting in the incorrect information being relayed (as in 99% of vehicles, our "Standard Hi-Fi" Stage One is compatible with the BimmerTech amp, and this is literally the only exception -- and the one exception about which Coby was unaware).

I also want to apologize that our support structures when you reached at later haven't met your needs. I'm the CEO, and I take failures within the company seriously -- however rare -- and you (or anyone else) can email me at any time at micah@bavsound.com. I'm extremely busy, so I may not respond right away, but I WILL respond and I'm happy to help.

With regard to your particular situation, here's what we can do:

1. Return the kit you purchased to us, and purchase the "Harman Kardon" kit instead, which would include separate mids + tweeters. Given the trouble you've dealt with, we're happy to do this for you at no cost and cover shipping both directions. If you'll provide us with the part numbers, we'll even purchase the necessary trim panels for tweeter installation and send them to you.
2. Return your kit for a full refund -- we'll do that for you if that's what you decide. We hope you won't, but we can simply send you a PayPal payment for the full purchase price if desired once we receive the product.
3. Send us the receipt for the BT amplifier showing the amount you paid, send it to us, and we'll refund you the purchase price of the amplifier instead since you can't return it to BimmerTech.

As for the specs, quite frankly, we generally don't share them as many of our customers aren't savvy with audio and confuse themselves by thinking "more watts = MORE POWERRRRRR." Our speakers are very efficient, resulting in lower than "typical" power handling ratings seen in the car audio world, even though they're excellent performers (at least, in our opinion ).

As a result we are hesitant to share specs because we so often see customers thinking the wattage rating of a speaker is like the wattage rating of an amp, and don't realize they aren't making an apples to apples comparison -- or that the wattage rating may not be meaningful in the context of an OEM style replacement.

That said, you've asked, so here they are:

Diameter: 4 in"
Weight: 355g
Impedance: 4 Ohm + or - 10%
Resonance Frequency: 95Hz + or - 15%
Frequency Response: 95Hz to 20K Hz
Sensitivity: 85 + or - 2dB at 1M with 1W input
Power handling: 18W RMS

For those wondering why the coaxial we offer have such low power handling, it's a function of their use being PRIMARILY in vehicles with "Base" audio which have extremely low power output, with the 2 Series being the sole exception to that rule.

All that said, I hope the above resolves your issues. I'm not on the forums much due to my other work obligations and how busy they keep me (thank you customers! ), but happened across this thread randomly and wanted to make sure you were served. That said, you can reach out to me directly at the email above and I'll take care of whatever route you choose to resolve this issue. I probably won't see additional replies in this thread, so I apologize for that in advance.

Rock on!

I want to thank Micah D. Cranman for responding to, and working with, me personally on this situation.

He has made sure I am 100% satisfied with everything and cleared any confusion and/or miscommunication.

I have gone back to the stock amplifier and honestly am completely happy with my Stage 1 (and ghost subs) sound system.

The bimmertech amplifier was not really a great idea and unnecessary in the end.

For anyone going forward if you just have a HiFi system and you upgrade to a BavSound speaker package just know it sounds great with the stock amplifier, no need to upgrade.

In the future I might look into adding a sub box in the trunk to get a little more punch on the low end.

Thanks again Micah D. Cranman you really do treat your customers well!