Intercooler selection

stlb5 · 08-17-2018, 08:43 PM

Goal is a supporting IC for a FBO Stage 2 daily driver. Maybe some autocross, but 99.9% a fun daily. Currently stage 1. With that in mind I'm looking at 4 options:

Stock - on my 30 minute drive to and from work, I'm seeing about a 35 degree F delta from ambient to IAT by the end of the drive. This will quickly drop to about 20 if I get on it. Will any of the following options really gain me much?

VRSF HD - kind of the base upgrade. Will I get $380 better performance than stock?

Active Autowerke - $70 better than VRSF?

CSF - $120 better than AA?

I know not a lot of people have real data from switching from one intercooler to another, other than stock to xxx, so I know it will be hard to not get anecdotal opinions. I'm really after the best bang for the buck based on my goals.

Amack · 08-17-2018, 10:31 PM

I went with the AA it's great install was super easy didn't take the bar off. For the price point it's awesome I think there was a sale on too which made it even cheaper. Hit up Mike from xtream powerhouse he might still have it running

FaRKle! · 08-20-2018, 02:56 PM

I wouldn't get the CSF. I felt it was too restrictive and had lots of lag. If it was only a track car where your turbo drive is always high, then that wouldn't matter as much, but for daily driving the CSF got annoying.

I also have the Wagner EVO 2 Comp and ATM ICs. You can see my comparison on the track and daily driving in this thread. There isn't a huge difference between the two in daily driving, although at low speeds the the EVO 2 Comp will soak more due to less heatsinking capability (trade-off for the lighter weight). The EVO 2 Comp does ever so slightly less lag though. I decided to run the ATM in my car since I track and the reduced charge air temps gained me 3mph average more on the front straight at Thunderhill.

Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with VRSF products or AA.

stlb5 · 08-21-2018, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

I wouldn't get the CSF. I felt it was too restrictive and had lots of lag. If it was only a track car where your turbo drive is always high, then that wouldn't matter as much, but for daily driving the CSF got annoying.

I also have the Wagner EVO 2 Comp and ATM ICs. You can see my comparison on the track and daily driving in this thread. There isn't a huge difference between the two in daily driving, although at low speeds the the EVO 2 Comp will soak more due to less heatsinking capability (trade-off for the lighter weight). The EVO 2 Comp does ever so slightly less lag though. I decided to run the ATM in my car since I track and the reduced charge air temps gained me 3mph average more on the front straight at Thunderhill.

Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with VRSF products or AA.

Thanks for the info! I read through your other thread too. I was leaning towards the CSF until seeing your comments about the lag. I had read on other threads about the importance of the IC being sized to the application. It seems most of the data out there only shows WOT IAT's and doesn't really touch on the daily driver drive-ability. It's nice that ATM lists the pressure delta, but it's just for 328. I can't find delta P from anyone else that I'm looking at. I know our mechanical engineers run heat exchanger calcs all the time. I'd have them do it for me if the data was out there.

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 08-21-2018, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stlb5

Goal is a supporting IC for a FBO Stage 2 daily driver. Maybe some autocross, but 99.9% a fun daily. Currently stage 1. With that in mind I'm looking at 4 options:

Stock - on my 30 minute drive to and from work, I'm seeing about a 35 degree F delta from ambient to IAT by the end of the drive. This will quickly drop to about 20 if I get on it. Will any of the following options really gain me much?

VRSF HD - kind of the base upgrade. Will I get $380 better performance than stock?

Active Autowerke - $70 better than VRSF?

CSF - $120 better than AA?

I know not a lot of people have real data from switching from one intercooler to another, other than stock to xxx, so I know it will be hard to not get anecdotal opinions. I'm really after the best bang for the buck based on my goals.

Best bang for the buck is going to be VRSF's new Street HD 5" and will outperform some more expensive brands too.

TwistedX · 08-24-2018, 12:33 AM

As long as your not a convertible itll take you 30 minutes and is worth it. Love my vrsf

mike@x-ph.com · 09-05-2018, 11:00 AM

Hi,
The best intercooler depends on your mods.

Since you car is stage 2, i would get a 6" intercooler.

Wagner EVO II, VRSF Race or CSF are all good options.

CSF Cooling · 09-10-2018, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stlb5

Thanks for the info! I read through your other thread too. I was leaning towards the CSF until seeing your comments about the lag. I had read on other threads about the importance of the IC being sized to the application. It seems most of the data out there only shows WOT IAT's and doesn't really touch on the daily driver drive-ability. It's nice that ATM lists the pressure delta, but it's just for 328. I can't find delta P from anyone else that I'm looking at. I know our mechanical engineers run heat exchanger calcs all the time. I'd have them do it for me if the data was out there.

Keep in mind that the poster who says he experienced lag has a diesel, and is a known hater of CSF..

always an echo chamber on the forums, sometimes causing misleading info..

Follow what the professional drivers like TYSP33D are using for full cooling on their professional builds. As well as prominent street tuners like DarksideM4 Evolve Automotive

hwntime · 09-12-2018, 06:39 PM

I'm on the fence about upgrading the FMIC on my N20. I only have a Dinan Sport Tune and don't have any plans on upgrading to a stage 2 any time in the near future. Would the VRSF HD IC be the best option for my simple application and would I get more turbo lag than with the stock IC?

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 09-13-2018, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hwntime

I'm on the fence about upgrading the FMIC on my N20. I only have a Dinan Sport Tune and don't have any plans on upgrading to a stage 2 any time in the near future. Would the VRSF HD IC be the best option for my simple application and would I get more turbo lag than with the stock IC?

I'd recommend the VRSF HD FMIC for you for sure. You won't have any more lag.

08-17-2018, 08:43 PM	#1
stlb5 Lieutenant 217 Rep 520 Posts Drives: '19 M2C MT, '15 X5 Msport Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: St. Louis iTrader: (0)	Intercooler selection Goal is a supporting IC for a FBO Stage 2 daily driver. Maybe some autocross, but 99.9% a fun daily. Currently stage 1. With that in mind I'm looking at 4 options: Stock - on my 30 minute drive to and from work, I'm seeing about a 35 degree F delta from ambient to IAT by the end of the drive. This will quickly drop to about 20 if I get on it. Will any of the following options really gain me much? VRSF HD - kind of the base upgrade. Will I get $380 better performance than stock? Active Autowerke - $70 better than VRSF? CSF - $120 better than AA? I know not a lot of people have real data from switching from one intercooler to another, other than stock to xxx, so I know it will be hard to not get anecdotal opinions. I'm really after the best bang for the buck based on my goals. __________________ 2019 M2 Comp, MT, BSM 2015 X5 Msport, CB (Hers) 2014 M235i MT, BSM, MPE, Dinan Springs (Sold)
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

08-17-2018, 10:31 PM	#2
Amack Second Lieutenant 101 Rep 221 Posts Drives: EB 2016 M235i Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: canberra iTrader: (0)	I went with the AA it's great install was super easy didn't take the bar off. For the price point it's awesome I think there was a sale on too which made it even cheaper. Hit up Mike from xtream powerhouse he might still have it running
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-20-2018, 02:56 PM	#3
FaRKle! Brigadier General 4007 Rep 3,535 Posts Drives: 328d Wagon, M2 Comp, i4 eD35 Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Bay Area, CA iTrader: (4) Garage List 2023 BMW i4 eDrive 35 [0.00] 2017 BMW 328dx Wagon [0.00] 2021 BMW M2 Competi ... [0.00]	I wouldn't get the CSF. I felt it was too restrictive and had lots of lag. If it was only a track car where your turbo drive is always high, then that wouldn't matter as much, but for daily driving the CSF got annoying. I also have the Wagner EVO 2 Comp and ATM ICs. You can see my comparison on the track and daily driving in this thread. There isn't a huge difference between the two in daily driving, although at low speeds the the EVO 2 Comp will soak more due to less heatsinking capability (trade-off for the lighter weight). The EVO 2 Comp does ever so slightly less lag though. I decided to run the ATM in my car since I track and the reduced charge air temps gained me 3mph average more on the front straight at Thunderhill. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with VRSF products or AA.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-24-2018, 12:33 AM	#6
TwistedX Really Twisted 28 Rep 265 Posts Drives: 2015 M235i F23 8AT Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (1)	As long as your not a convertible itll take you 30 minutes and is worth it. Love my vrsf __________________ 2021 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon 2015 BMW M235i F23 - Sold
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-05-2018, 11:00 AM	#7
mike@x-ph.com Joint Chiefs of Staff 24083 Rep 190,614 Posts Drives: 07-335/12-328/18-M4/21-M4CP Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Las Vegas iTrader: (23)	Hi, The best intercooler depends on your mods. Since you car is stage 2, i would get a 6" intercooler. Wagner EVO II, VRSF Race or CSF are all good options. __________________ Check out our current sale by clicking on this link! https://x-ph.com/sale/ Phone number 702-494-9435
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-12-2018, 06:39 PM	#9
hwntime Captain 270 Rep 823 Posts Drives: F22 Raptor Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: PNW iTrader: (0)	I'm on the fence about upgrading the FMIC on my N20. I only have a Dinan Sport Tune and don't have any plans on upgrading to a stage 2 any time in the near future. Would the VRSF HD IC be the best option for my simple application and would I get more turbo lag than with the stock IC?
	Appreciate 0 Quote