[MattBMW235XI]

To start this thread off, I have searched this problem before, it's been a mixed bag of results whether people have this issue covered under extended warranty or not, so just wanted to re-shed some light on this issue.

Car - 2016 M235i w/ x-drive with Platinum Extended Warranty.

Issue: I have some major headlight condensation that has gotten worst which wasn't the case when I purchased the car in Dec 2021.

Went to the dealership close to my house, they said that it wouldn't be covered because its a water leak and it has premature wearing of the seal. Decided to go to the dealership that I bought the car from and awaiting to see them next week.

Thought I would see what the community's two cents were on the matter.

Pictures: From Jan 2022 (first photo) March 2022 - June 2022 (when the problem started to become a major issue)

I hope this dealership will fix the issue under warranty.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

[Kernel Kurtz]

Originally Posted by MattBMW235XI

Went to the dealership close to my house, they said that it wouldn't be covered because its a water leak and it has premature wearing of the seal. Decided to go to the dealership that I bought the car from and awaiting to see them next week.

When I bought the extended warranty for my former 335, it had a document that was pretty concise as to what is covered and what exceptions there are. Did the people you talked to specify which specific terms under which they would deny coverage?

Premature wear of a normal wear item like a clutch I could understand being obviously excluded. Premature "wear" of a non-wear-item, which I would think this is, not so much. Hope you have better luck with the other dealer. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

[MattBMW235XI]

Originally Posted by Kernel Kurtz

When I bought the extended warranty for my former 335, it had a document that was pretty concise as to what is covered and what exceptions there are. Did the people you talked to specify which specific terms under which they would deny coverage?

Premature wear of a normal wear item like a clutch I could understand being obviously excluded. Premature "wear" of a non-wear-item, which I would think this is, not so much. Hope you have better luck with the other dealer. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

Yeah, the ext. warranty does say that it doesn't cover water leaks or water damage ( which I would understand). The confusing part is that, there wouldn't be any "water leaks" if there wasn't any premature wear of the headlight seals.

Im interested what the other one will say.

Keep you posted!

[Kernel Kurtz]

Originally Posted by MattBMW235XI

Yeah, the ext. warranty does say that it doesn't cover water leaks or water damage ( which I would understand).

I can even understand that to a point. Door seals, window seals and sunroof seals (and a whole bunch of other seals if you own a vert) could fairly be considered wear items. The drivers door seal on my 335 was pretty ratty in places from me rubbing on it on ingress and egress (though it never leaked). I can also understand that flood damage would not be covered in any way.

Headlights modules don't get opened and closed often (ever?) though. I'd like to think if water got into the ECU or other places that are expected to be permanently sealed that it would be covered. Kind of lame if not.

[MattBMW235XI]

Update on my dealership experience, So I was told again that the sealants at the bottom of the headlight has prematurely worn out which is causing water ingress into the headlight. Supposedly these seals are a "maintenance" item and that the extended warranty does not cover.

Cost of repair: New Headlight Assembly - $2000

Jokeingly asked if these seals are something that should be replaced on as a maintenance checklist and whether we should start replacing our headlights from now on...

Im thinking of either escalating the matter to BMW NA, hopefully getting some sort of refund on my warranty, or consider getting BayOptiks since this was a mod I eventually wanted to do.

[Nickies]

Do you have the diagnosis in writing and what is the mileage of the car? Extended warranties don't cover body parts but may be your insurance could.

[Kernel Kurtz]

Originally Posted by MattBMW235XI

Update on my dealership experience, So I was told again that the sealants at the bottom of the headlight has prematurely worn out which is causing water ingress into the headlight. Supposedly these seals are a "maintenance" item and that the extended warranty does not cover.

Cost of repair: New Headlight Assembly - $2000

Jokeingly asked if these seals are something that should be replaced on as a maintenance checklist and whether we should start replacing our headlights from now on...

Im thinking of either escalating the matter to BMW NA, hopefully getting some sort of refund on my warranty, or consider getting BayOptiks since this was a mod I eventually wanted to do.

That is really lame. This is not an item that should ever be expected to be replaced, at least certainly not on a car that is not a decades old restore worthy classic.

If your extended warranty is with BMW and not a third party (in the latter case you are probably SOL) I would absolutely contact BMW NA. Even if your warranty is third party and you are in Ontario you might also want to send an email to someone like CBC Marketplace so others can be publicly warned. Complaints to the BBB also sometimes draw attention. If you feel the condensation is a safety issue (which it could be) there are also complaint mechanisms with NHTSA and Transport Canada.

BMW does try hard to cultivate their reputation and honestly I would expect them to do better.

[Nickies]

Kernel...... I have to disagree. It happens that headlights have to be replaced but you have to monitor the progress of the problem when they start to fog and not wait until this become as serious as in this case.

I owned a 2014 JCW Coupe from new when a similar case happened twice during warranty. This was even worse because they also replaced the taillights and front side markers.

Even nowadays my 240 having bought new and still under warranty, I always monitor if they are free of condensation and would report the problem. This is why a pre-purchase inspection is so important on a used car that is out of warranty and furthermore at the cost it means to maintain a BMW product.

[Kernel Kurtz]

Originally Posted by Nickies

Kernel...... I have to disagree. It happens that headlights have to be replaced but you have to monitor the progress of the problem when they start to fog and not wait until this become as serious as in this case.

I owned a 2014 JCW Coupe from new when a similar case happened twice during warranty. This was even worse because they also replaced the taillights and front side markers.

Even nowadays my 240 having bought new and still under warranty, I always monitor if they are free of condensation and would report the problem. This is why a pre-purchase inspection is so important on a used car that is out of warranty and furthermore at the cost it means to maintain a BMW product.

Are you saying they would be covered under the original warranty, just not the extended one? I assumed if they are a "maintenance item" that, like a clutch or brake pads, they would not be covered at all.

[Nickies]

Originally Posted by Kernel Kurtz

Are you saying they would be covered under the original warranty, just not the extended one? I assumed if they are a "maintenance item" that, like a clutch or brake pads, they would not be covered at all.

If the car is still under the original 4 years warranty, it is covered. This is not a maintenance item.

[Kernel Kurtz]

Originally Posted by Nickies

If the car is still under the original 4 years warranty, it is covered. This is not a maintenance item.

The OP just said in post #5 that they are, presumably after 4 years then. Seriously, my father's 18yo Buick had the original headlights when he passed and they were totally fine. Do Audi and Mercedes consider headlights something that needs to be routinely replaced? Can German BMW engineers just not make long term reliable headlights?

It is good to know that they are covered under the original warranty. They SHOULD be covered under the extended warranty as well, since they should almost never fail. That failure is considered "normal" is pretty sad, and I'll stick with that.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by MattBMW235XI

Cost of repair: New Headlight Assembly - $2000

I can't help but be reminded that after having read that $2K was the cost of replacing a headlight assembly on a...wait for it now...Ford Focus (a $20K car at the time), one of the first things I began doing and am still doing is looking at the cost of replacing the headlight assembly on any car I'm considering.

For the Volvo wagons we've bought, we acquired inexpensive, easily-installed, and very thick plastic headlight shields out of Australia. The Ozzies know how to protect their headlight assemblies!

In the case of my car, I've chosen PPF to minimize the potential damage that is bound to come the car's headlight assemblies' ways. However, PPF won't begin to do anything like the protectors we bought for our Volvos.

The thing with BMWs is that as an owner you must realize you're potentially on the hook for seemingly ridiculous expenses for everything from oil changes to what you might think should be inexpensive plastic replacement parts. This reality is simply the price of having roundels on the front and back of your car(s). If it's any consolation, Porsche owners, maintenance and parts replacement-wise, have it twice as bad. And the super car owners live in yet another reality, price-wise.

[Nickies]

Originally Posted by Kernel Kurtz

The OP just said in post #5 that they are, presumably after 4 years then. Seriously, my father's 18yo Buick had the original headlights when he passed and they were totally fine. Do Audi and Mercedes consider headlights something that needs to be routinely replaced? Can German BMW engineers just not make long term reliable headlights?

It is good to know that they are covered under the original warranty. They SHOULD be covered under the extended warranty as well, since they should almost never fail. That failure is considered "normal" is pretty sad, and I'll stick with that.

Dealers don't replace seals, they just install complete units when a car is under the 4 years warranty and if the replacement is authorized by BMW NA. This is the reason you have to be proactive to see if there is abnormal wear anywhere. In this case, the OP saw that something was wrong before he bought the car (mileage unkown) but thought an extended warranty would cover the original defect.

I never keep a new car more than 5 years but I always request a complete inspection before warranty expiration so I am sure everything is top notch. If something need to be done, they have no choice

[Kernel Kurtz]

I must have missed the memo where headlight modules became a wear item that needed regular replacement.

Sure, stone chips are a thing, but this is not that.

[Shovelman]

Is there no repair for this? After all, if water got in might it be got out. And if a seal is leaking can it not be resealed? Does the airspace in the light breath or does it hold the pressure and vacuum of being heated and cooled?

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by Shovelman

Is there no repair for this? After all, if water got in might it be got out. And if a seal is leaking can it not be resealed? Does the airspace in the light breath or does it hold the pressure and vacuum of being heated and cooled?

Great question. I would think the headlight assembly could have all moisture removed and then sealed tightly.

[F22 Raptor]

Believe it or not, some condensation is normal, but it is expected to clear itself over time. Changes in ambient temperature and/or relative humidity will cause condensation. These headlight assemblies are NOT completely sealed from the outside, but are vented in an appropriate location as to prevent water being FORCED in. OP's problem looks as though water has been forced in from, say, a truck in front of you kicking up alot of road spray, and hasn't had a chance to dry out. Most likely there IS a problem with the seal.

There are fixes one can do to remove excess moisture, some are described in this forum. There are YouTube videos showing how to "bake" the headlight units to remove the lenses and replace the sealant after drying the unit in a cool, dry environment - a long, messy and drawn out procedure. All suggestions require removal of the units from the car.

The "quick-and-easy" method I've seen is to carefully run a bead of RTV sealant completely around the seam where the lens meets the housing. It may take a while for condensation to clear but at least water won't be forced in anymore.

As for your warranty claims, all I can say is best of luck! This is one area gray where I think BMW can say (to itself), ignore it and it might go away!

[morphomeman]

I have a twelve-year-old auxiliary refrigerator in the garage. The seals are shot. Seals for both doors will run me about $300! A new refrigerator, much more efficient and designed specifically for the seasonal temperature swings in the garage, will cost me $600. I just ordered one.
Seals are among the first things to go, because they are subject to temperature and humidity changes but must be flexible.

[Shovelman]

So the light is vented, if not by design then by a leak. Hopefully by design and by a vent at the bottom so it can blow out moisture. Hopefully it is in the back so it will not suck any rain.

Ok so let's say we want to drive out the moisture that got in thru the vent. We need to heat the air in the light to evaporate the moisture and push it out. There goes some of it. This signing to take a few cycles. As it cools we want it to suck in dry air. Sounds like a few days in a hot dry climate might work.

Another plan, drill a hole in the light and blow in dry air or nitrogen (you can buy it in a can). Close the hole with clear tape. Anyone have an unused light to experiment with?

[MattBMW235XI]

Thanks for the feedback and responses. I am going to take it to BMW NA as of Monday.

The car is CPO'd which (correct me if I'm wrong) but should take the PPI out of the equation. The problem didn't start until March. I took it to one bmw dealership and they were brushing me off. So I decided to take it to the original dealership that I purchased the car from, given the fact that they CPO'd the vehicle and know it's history before hand to find some sort of understanding. Unfortunately that has not worked out...

I would understand if the car wasn't CPO and I didn't decided to get the extended warranty, I wouldn't be looking to BMW to cover it, but this isn't the case. Tbh, The idea of an ext warranty wasn't really convincing to begin with. Now, with this experience, im still not convinced. To boot, the service adviser had to tail it off with,"in her experience,this ext warranty is one of the best that she's seen and has saved BMW Owners $5-6 thousand in repairs..." . I also found a BMW condensation procedure and exactly what is covered on the extended warranty platinum. Here is some of the notes from the tech as well.

I believe at the end of the day, it does say in the Warranty PDF that headlight assembly is covered.

I'll keep you guys updated on what BMW NA says on Monday.

[Shovelman]

From the attachments

1. Remove light condensation:
Connect the battery charger to the vehicle. Always connect a BMW approved battery charger / power
supply (SI B04 23 10).
Open all accessible service covers that can be reached with headlights still installed. Turn on the high beam, until the condensation has cleared completely.
This procedure will take about 30 min to dry both headlights.
Has all the condensation been eliminated?
YES- go to step 3.
NO- Continue with Step 2.
2. Remove remaining condensation:
- Remove both headlights following ISTA repair procedure.
- Open all service covers. Note: For G01 and G02, with LED headlights, there are no service covers. The headlight vents can be removed to gain access for the following steps.
- For headlights with service covers: Using a hot air blower, dry out the headlight (to prevent damage to the headlight, the temperature must not exceed 80 C / 176F)
- For headlights without service covers: Once the vents are removed, a compressed air blow gun can be used to dry the lights.
Note: If any moisture is present in the compressed air line being used, a filter can be attached with tape to the end of the air blow gun to capture the moisture. Filter PN 13 32 1 277 497 can be installed in the correct direction of flow, for example.

Ok so there are vents and a general procedure. Now we just need a you tube vid.

[dradernh]

3. After the drying has been completed:

- Check that the headlight functions correctly.

- Check for dried water stains (for example, lime scale or dirty edges).

Are there permanent (dry) stains in the visible area?

YES- the affected headlight must be replaced.

NO- continue to Step 4.

4. Reassemble the service covers or vents on the headlight ensuring the following:

- The seals are firmly seated.

- The rubber grommets are seated correctly on the ventilation openings.

5. Reinstall the headlight in accordance with Repair Instructions.

Attention: All headlights will be return to WPRC for verification and inspection. Evaluate and compare the moisture in customer headlights to reference pictures (above) or examples in ISTA test module.