[Pparana]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I totally agree with this and I tell my car friends this all the time when they're thinking about a particular modification. Short of the OEM upper isolator, what else is there that's really missing from the OEM design in terms of controlling NVH? If there really that much difference felt running it without an isolator in comparison to the extra NVH. I'm thinking in terms of people that drive almost entirely on the street. Either way, it looks like there is an option to use the isolator if you want.

As for the dust boots, I'd definitely try and find something that can provide some protection to the exposed strut if you live somewhere where salt is used for snow/ice treatment. From my Subaru days, I've many Bilsteins and other exposed coilover struts that have rust on the exposed strut because the salt eats quickly through the chrome finish. That's not good for the internal valving, especially on a non-inverted strut.

You could prob. Trim the dust boots. My guess is they would tear if you leave them.

Nvh is going to be from the bearings transferring more force/vibration, feel to the strut towers, oem have more compliance which absorbs some of the nvh as well as feel.

I doubt these are terribly loud they look well designed to properly distribute the load.

If your driving entirely street, why add camber plates? Like adding a wing to a fwd car.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Pparana

If your driving entirely street, why add camber plates? Like adding a wing to a fwd car.

Unless you're trying to reduce understeer by installing a wing to help even out the weight distribution of a fwd car ...

... or you're driving this:

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by Pparana

You could prob. Trim the dust boots. My guess is they would tear if you leave them.

Nvh is going to be from the bearings transferring more force/vibration, feel to the strut towers, oem have more compliance which absorbs some of the nvh as well as feel.

I doubt these are terribly loud they look well designed to properly distribute the load.

If your driving entirely street, why add camber plates? Like adding a wing to a fwd car.

They are pretty quiet. More general road noise is definitely transmitted through the perch bearing and the spherical bearing, but there's no clunk of an overstressed/loose spherical or an interference fit. Nice and tight.

I haven't done the friction tape mod yet, and I'm running without the stock isolators. My plan is to drive 'em as-is until first week of September. This will include a couple of weeks of daily driving, a road trip from San Diego to Monterey, an autocross, and 2 days of HPDE at Laguna Seca.

I think this car needs more camber for street driving. My stock MPSSes had very heavily worn shoulders with just 1k of street drving.

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by rwalker

They are pretty quiet. More general road noise is definitely transmitted through the perch bearing and the spherical bearing, but there's no clunk of an overstressed/loose spherical or an interference fit. Nice and tight.

I haven't done the friction tape mod yet, and I'm running without the stock isolators. My plan is to drive 'em as-is until first week of September. This will include a couple of weeks of daily driving, a road trip from San Diego to Monterey, an autocross, and 2 days of HPDE at Laguna Seca.

I think this car needs more camber for street driving. My stock MPSSes had very heavily worn shoulders with just 1k of street drving.

To be fair, you drive that car far, far harder than most people buying it do. That being said, yeah, I think some added camber actually improves its street performance. Turns in much better and more even wear on the tires.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

To be fair, you drive that car far, far harder than most people buying it do. That being said, yeah, I think some added camber actually improves its street performance. Turns in much better and more even wear on the tires.

-1 to -1.5 can do wonders on a street car. M cars run -1 from the factory.

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

To be fair, you drive that car far, far harder than most people buying it do. That being said, yeah, I think some added camber actually improves its street performance. Turns in much better and more even wear on the tires.

mebbe, but many folks on this thread are in the same boat: they want streetable camber

I wonder how hard/expensive it'd be to make fixed camber plates that:

1. used the stock spring perch, and
2. had a rubber top bushing, a la stock

Such a thing might be made very cheaply, and thus could be offered in multiple variants, e.g. -1, -1.5 and -2 degrees additional camber.

I've done some casual investigation on this front, but I'm not in industry nor am I a mechanical engineer, so the going is slow :-(

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by rwalker

mebbe, but many folks on this thread are in the same boat: they want streetable camber

I wonder how hard/expensive it'd be to make fixed camber plates that:

1. used the stock spring perch, and
2. had a rubber top bushing, a la stock

Such a thing might be made very cheaply, and thus could be offered in multiple variants, e.g. -1, -1.5 and -2 degrees additional camber.

I've done some casual investigation on this front, but I'm not in industry nor am I a mechanical engineer, so the going is slow :-(

I think there would be a great market for such a product. Many people are willing to put up with some NVH associated with a good camber plate, but many aren't, but still want the increased camber.

I seem to recall Dinan made such a plate last generation with a fixed amount of added camber. Seems like a good idea to me for those who want a little better front end performance, but don't plan on going to the track really and/or are not willing to give up NVH for complete adjustability.

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

-1 to -1.5 can do wonders on a street car. M cars run -1 from the factory.

Completely true. The only reason I can fathom for most cars having so little camber is simply to induce understeer -- the tire wear (for between 1 and 2 degrees negative) is marginally worse (if at all) and the performance is greatly improved.

My guess is that the BMW legal department is skiddish towards producing cars (other than full M Cars which are marketed as being "sporty") that have so much front end bite the back end gets loose. Imagine some family in an X3 getting the tail out in corners coming back from the grocery -- which would be sort of awesome.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

...I seem to recall Dinan made such a plate last generation with a fixed amount of added camber. Seems like a good idea to me for those who want a little better front end performance, but don't plan on going to the track really and/or are not willing to give up NVH for complete adjustability.

I had Dinan fixed camber plates in my e53 X5... they made a huge difference even in that vehicle (and completely evened out my front tire wear), with zero added NVH.

[Pparana]

You could just buy the lca and ts, I think that is almost an additional 1/2 degree. If you get real ambitious you could throw the camber correction kit wheel hub assembly's from bmw.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Unless you're trying to reduce understeer by installing a wing to help even out the weight distribution of a fwd car ...

... or you're driving this:

If I am driving that, I hope it is to a psychologist appointment.

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by Pparana

If I am driving that, I hope it is to a psychologist appointment.

To talk about your mid-life crisis?

[MyM235i]

Originally Posted by Pparana

You could prob. Trim the dust boots. My guess is they would tear if you leave them.

Nvh is going to be from the bearings transferring more force/vibration, feel to the strut towers, oem have more compliance which absorbs some of the nvh as well as feel.

I doubt these are terribly loud they look well designed to properly distribute the load.

If your driving entirely street, why add camber plates? Like adding a wing to a fwd car.

I have all but destroyed the shoulders of the fronts just commuting. I have been watching the camber plate developments with great interest. A fixed option for these cars would be very welcome. I intend to set and forget as they have closed the track near me. 1.5 degrees would be great. I have looked at the LCA option but don't want to move the tire that far forward. I appreciate the field testing (track) that you guys have done. It allows me to make an educated purchase.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Pparana

You could just buy the lca and ts, I think that is almost an additional 1/2 degree. If you get real ambitious you could throw the camber correction kit wheel hub assembly's from bmw.

Those are two other options to add more camber!

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by Pparana

You could just buy the lca and ts, I think that is almost an additional 1/2 degree. If you get real ambitious you could throw the camber correction kit wheel hub assembly's from bmw.

Knuckles = pricey! Also, we may already be running those...

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by MyM235i

I have all but destroyed the shoulders of the fronts just commuting. I have been watching the camber plate developments with great interest. A fixed option for these cars would be very welcome. I intend to set and forget as they have closed the track near me. 1.5 degrees would be great. I have looked at the LCA option but don't want to move the tire that far forward. I appreciate the field testing (track) that you guys have done. It allows me to make an educated purchase.

the tire doesn't move if you do the tension struts at the same time

[DVC]

Originally Posted by rwalker

the tire doesn't move if you do the tension struts at the same time

Wait - is that right?? I had heard that installing the f8x Tension Strut too wouldn't do much of anything to abate the caster gain that you get with the LCA...
I have f8x LCAs and have been looking for any ideas on how to re-center my front wheels, as I'm trying to maximize how much tire I can fit up front, and now that they're pushed forward I've lost about 7mm of fender clearance.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by DVC

Wait - is that right?? I had heard that installing the f8x Tension Strut too wouldn't do much of anything to abate the caster gain that you get with the LCA...
I have f8x LCAs and have been looking for any ideas on how to re-center my front wheels, as I'm trying to maximize how much tire I can fit up front, and now that they're pushed forward I've lost about 7mm of fender clearance.

I would not run the lca without the ts, esp. if tracking. I noticed the lca bushings on mine were pushed all the way forward. I had to recenter on the press.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by rwalker

Knuckles = pricey! Also, we may already be running those...

not if there oem, My knuckles are sitting in a pile in the shop with most of the front end. Doing a bunch of upgrades, refresh. Part # is not for the camber correction knuckles.

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by DVC

Wait - is that right?? I had heard that installing the f8x Tension Strut too wouldn't do much of anything to abate the caster gain that you get with the LCA...

Where did you hear/read that?

It's possible that TSes don't help much with caster, but I find that hard to believe given how much the wheel moves back when you add TSes.

The community suffered a bit of a setback when some aftermarket vendors initially evaluated the TSes and said "ah, they don't fit and they're the same length as stock anyway". Pparana is our TS Prometheus.

Originally Posted by DVC

I have f8x LCAs and have been looking for any ideas on how to re-center my front wheels, as I'm trying to maximize how much tire I can fit up front, and now that they're pushed forward I've lost about 7mm of fender clearance.

What means did you use to come up with the 7mm figure? Pretty exact I think Pparana said he guesses his front wheels moved back 1/2" with the TSes.

The before/after of wheel placement with TSes is definitely non-null. TSes will get you there.

Check my posts on TSes. You can see that the F8x TSes are obviously longer, even on the bench.

There is a small caveat to running TSes: less steering lock with aggressive front fitments. With 255/35r18s on 18x8.5et42, my front tires hit the TS just before full lock...

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by Pparana

not if there oem, My knuckles are sitting in a pile in the shop with most of the front end. Doing a bunch of upgrades, refresh. Part # is not for the camber correction knuckles.

I trust you'll keep us updated and take lots of pics.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by rwalker

I trust you'll keep us updated and take lots of pics.

I am not a pic man, but Mostly just sorting a sub frame issue in the front. Adding some bracing from the m235i convertible, and looking for some better motor mounts.

Rear subframe is out as well, dumping all the stock bushings for that and the diff, upgrading to poly.

Going to mod the cdv valve as well.

Bumpers and lower skirts are out for paint, throwing on some carbon aero stuff and having the brakes podwer coated.