[helloelectro]

Anyone running a heat exchanger like the CSF specifically on a B58? I've heard lots of positive things about the b58 and minimal heat soak. Is it worth it?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by helloelectro

Anyone running a heat exchanger like the CSF specifically on a B58? I've heard lots of positive things about the b58 and minimal heat soak. Is it worth it?

The CSF heat exchanger like they use on the M3/M4 won't work as the heat exchanger on the B58 is built directly into the intake manifold. The S55 is a separate system.

[helloelectro]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The CSF heat exchanger like they use on the M3/M4 won't work as the heat exchanger on the B58 is built directly into the intake manifold. The S55 is a separate system.

They sell one specifically for the b58 though.

[Dylan86]

A worthwhile upgrade imo, no different than a FMIC. Can never have "too much cooling" when it comes to intake temp control.

If I had a B58, I'd be doing this along the way once I started added power.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by helloelectro

They sell one specifically for the b58 though.

Ahh I see now. For me personally, I wouldn't. That's a lot of money and work to reduce IAT by only ~20-30 degrees and the worst case is IATs get into the 120-130 degree range.

But what makes me most resistant is modifying a BMW liquid cooling system. My concerns:

1) How did CSF validate that putting a much thicker exchanger in front of the radiator won't impact cooling of that system or cause the fans to work harder? Those fans aren't cheap.

2) How did CSF validate that the OEM intercooling system water pump can handle the increased capacity in the long term?

3) Leak potential.

4) I've never heard of B58 owners complaining of heat soak issues or excessive IATs. Though far more complex, the stock B58 intercooling system is much better at maintaining consistent and lower IATs.

[TajoMan]

For stock, I'm not sure it's necessary.
If you add a lot of power, then you may need to consider it.

Last weekend was 95F+ and the intake air temp was around 140F when running Auto X.
(150F when idling with AC full blast. as soon as the car moves, temp went down)

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Ahh I see now. For me personally, I wouldn't. That's a lot of money and work to reduce IAT by only ~20-30 degrees and the worst case is IATs get into the 120-130 degree range.

But what makes me most resistant is modifying a BMW liquid cooling system. My concerns:

1) How did CSF validate that putting a much thicker exchanger in front of the radiator won't impact cooling of that system or cause the fans to work harder? Those fans aren't cheap.

2) How did CSF validate that the OEM intercooling system water pump can handle the increased capacity in the long term?

3) Leak potential.

4) I've never heard of B58 owners complaining of heat soak issues or excessive IATs. Though far more complex, the stock B58 intercooling system is much better at maintaining consistent and lower IATs.

I definitely think it's overkill for anyone of stock turbo, etc. But for someone hamming on the car, daily, tracking etc, it could be beneficial for timing advance at top line, thus much better power and performance for longer period of time. I watch timing more than IAT's, and if you're not making double digit timing advance on this engine, then you're probably experiencing the effect of heat and the poor combustion that's associated to it.

But as for the blocking of the rest of the engine's radiator, condenser etc. I think that's a valid point. Would love to see some data to back up the upgrade as well.

[TajoMan]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

But as for the blocking of the rest of the engine's radiator, condenser etc. I think that's a valid point. Would love to see some data to back up the upgrade as well.

Actually, the condenser is also water cooled by same coolant circuit as the CAC.
(coolant flows to AC condenser first, then to CAC)

To upgrade the cooling for CAC, low temp radiator needs to be beefed up.
(also bigger fan, bigger water pump)

I'm not sure how they can upgrade the CAC in the intake plenum without modifying the intake manifold.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by helloelectro

Is it worth it?

For me, only if I had evidence it was going to make a difference in a specific way. For example, I take my car to the track, but my sessions are short, so I don't have the need there. Elsewhere, it's not going to do anything but lighten my wallet.

Originally Posted by TajoMan

I'm not sure how they can upgrade the CAC in the intake plenum without modifying the intake manifold.

I think radiator #2 in this parts explosion is the part in question:




This diagram from Bimmerworld's site shows more of radiator #1's world:

[helloelectro]

I'm still on a stock turbo, but running BM3, intake and midpipe upgrades. I drive pretty aggressive and eventually may do midpipe. Also, I live in TX which, well is hot. Lol.

I added a FMIC on my previous car, a Volvo S60 r-design, and the difference was clearly noticed. But as everyone seems to be noting, it sounds like BmW did this engine pretty well in regards to cooling. Cost vs benefit vs cool factor ratio in play here lol.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by helloelectro

I added a FMIC on my previous car, a Volvo S60 r-design, and the difference was clearly noticed.

I installed a Bell FMIC on my V70R. Even though I tracked the car a few times after I installed it, and I'd run it on the autobahn at triple-digit speeds for anywhere from 80-300 miles, those circumstances took place a few years apart, and I wasn't able to compare them.

I will say that once the car was fully up to temperature on the autobahn (during a summer in Germany when the temps were 85°-90° every day), I didn't notice any significant drop-off in performance on those highway runs. My top-speed run was 152 MPH at ~80° ambient, so whatever power it was pulling didn't slow me down too much. However, it may have been doing that and I didn't pick up on it.

[TajoMan]

Originally Posted by dradernh

For me, only if I had evidence it was going to make a difference in a specific way. For example, I take my car to the track, but my sessions are short, so I don't have the need there. Elsewhere, it's not going to do anything but lighten my wallet.


I think radiator #2 in this parts explosion is the part in question:




This diagram from Bimmerworld's site shows more of radiator #1's world:

radiator #2 is the low temperature radiator which need to be upgraded as well as CAC.

CAC is inside of this intake manifold. This is difficult to be upgraded.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by TajoMan

CAC is inside of this intake manifold. This is difficult to be upgraded.

I've looked at that and wished that the interior unit was shown on the diagram, too.

[helloelectro]

Originally Posted by dradernh

I installed a Bell FMIC on my V70R. Even though I tracked the car a few times after I installed it, and I'd run it on the autobahn at triple-digit speeds for anywhere from 80-300 miles, those circumstances took place a few years apart, and I wasn't able to compare them.

I will say that once the car was fully up to temperature on the autobahn (during a summer in Germany when the temps were 85°-90° every day), I didn't notice any significant drop-off in performance on those highway runs. My top-speed run was 152 MPH at ~80° ambient, so whatever power it was pulling didn't slow me down too much. However, it may have been doing that and I didn't pick up on it.

I can't compare your experience on autobahn and I'm 100% jealous lol. That's said, the 16' s60 redesign is a totally different engine. Great car but compare the FMIC with the built in and it's laughable. Where I noticed the biggest difference wasn't long runs but repeated runs. What was really noticeable was that the power delivery didn't deteriorate over the course of subsequent pulls. The s60 t5 was terrible and heat soak mitigation so the FMIC was totally worth the cost. For the b58 I'm not convinced yet. Which is a good thing cause I can burn my cash elsewhere on mods. Lol.

[TajoMan]

Originally Posted by dradernh

I've looked at that and wished that the interior unit was shown on the diagram, too.

This shows the CAC in the intake.
Not much of space to install bigger heat exchanger.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by TajoMan

This shows the CAC in the intake.
Not much of space to install bigger heat exchanger.

Thanks - just what I wanted to see!

Where did you locate this image?

[TajoMan]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Thanks - just what I wanted to see!

Where did you locate this image?

From the B58 engine tech information.
See attached.