[MerlinMc]

Because my new M240i is not yet broken in, all of my LSD uses have been non-“hooligan.” Here are some mundane benefits:

Hills. My current house as a steep driveway. With my previous non-LSD M235i and my new M240i pre-LSD, the DSC would often kick in and cut power as one of the rear wheels lost traction. Or, in some case cases, a wheel would spin. I would normally get a “running start” to have momentum to get me up the driveway. The same was true with the hills in my neighborhood and near my office. The LSD-equipped M240i can idle up these driveways and hills with no drama, no intervention from the DSC cutting power and little to no wheel spin.

Wet, Pine Needles, Ice & Snow. Summer has not yet come to the Pacific Northwest (PNW). We did get hot when it reached 62F on the 4th. It’s raining now. There are still small pine needles (from Doug firs) on the streets. The wet + pine needles make for a slippery surface which would previously incite DSC and cut power. With the LSD, I can motor through the wet and needles with no bogging or wheel spin. Others have reported that the LSD is useful in ice and snow; I have no doubt that this will be true in the winter ahead.

Corners. The car now “hooks up” in corners—no DSC induced bogging.

Ramps. With the M235i, the rear wheels would slip or the DSC would activate when backing up the ramps. I installed the MPE today and was able to reverse idle up the ramps with no drama.

Few of us would have this car without a need for speed. Now nearing 1,000 miles, I am anxious to use the LSD more aggressively. Whatever gets added here is just icing on the cake as the day-to-day benefits are substantial.

[Kidu]

Having the LSD and tracking the car, its awesome! Love how I can put the power down through the hairpins!

[MetalMK]

Looking at all these benefits, XDrive cars also come with them stock, and you can put all the power down in the middle of the corner.

I'm not saying there is no point having RWD with LSD, but in rain and snow as a daily driver, XDrive makes more sense, plus the ability to get going in a snow covered hill. And don't repeat to me added weight on the front.

[MerlinMc]

Originally Posted by MetalMK

Looking at all these benefits, XDrive cars also come with them stock, and you can put all the power down in the middle of the corner.

I'm not saying there is no point having RWD with LSD, but in rain and snow as a daily driver, XDrive makes more sense, plus the ability to get going in a snow covered hill. And don't repeat to me added weight on the front.

The XDrive has all 4 wheels working rather than 2, so better traction.

Not sure that any of the 2 series come with the LSD stock other than the M2. There is more weight on the front wheels at rest -- I think the distribution F/R = 52.5%/47.5%

[MetalMK]

Originally Posted by MerlinMc

The XDrive has all 4 wheels working rather than 2, so better traction.

Not sure that any of the 2 series come with the LSD stock other than the M2. There is more weight on the front wheels at rest -- I think the distribution F/R = 52.5%/47.5%

I cannot verify this information, but from automobile-catalog.com, it says 228i Xdrive has 50.3 / 49.7 distribution, and M235i Xdrive is 53.5 / 46.5. And on the BMW website, the M2 Competition has 52.4 / 47.6 distribution.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by MetalMK

I cannot verify this information, but from automobile-catalog.com, it says 228i Xdrive has 50.3 / 49.7 distribution, and M235i Xdrive is 53.5 / 46.5. And on the BMW website, the M2 Competition has 52.4 / 47.6 distribution.

The M235 xdrive is around 54% front and 46% rear. The RWD models are 53/47. The M2C (and M240) have more weight in the front because of their closed deck blocks and liquid to air intercoolers as compared to an N55.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by MetalMK

Looking at all these benefits, XDrive cars also come with them stock, and you can put all the power down in the middle of the corner.

I'm not saying there is no point having RWD with LSD, but in rain and snow as a daily driver, XDrive makes more sense, plus the ability to get going in a snow covered hill. And don't repeat to me added weight on the front.

Xdrive's don't have mechanical LSDs. On most any track, an xdrive on the same tires will get outrun by a RWD with an LSD. Less weight in the nose and overall, better handling dynamics, less front end push (understeer), less drivetrain loss, etc. It all adds up, lap by lap.

AWD can help in slippery conditions, but a RWD car with an LSD and proper winter tires will be better in most every situations than an xdrive car on all season tires in the snow.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by MerlinMc

Because my new M240i is not yet broken in, all of my LSD uses have been non-“hooligan.” Here are some mundane benefits:

Hills. My current house as a steep driveway. With my previous non-LSD M235i and my new M240i pre-LSD, the DSC would often kick in and cut power as one of the rear wheels lost traction. Or, in some case cases, a wheel would spin. I would normally get a “running start” to have momentum to get me up the driveway. The same was true with the hills in my neighborhood and near my office. The LSD-equipped M240i can idle up these driveways and hills with no drama, no intervention from the DSC cutting power and little to no wheel spin.

Wet, Pine Needles, Ice & Snow. Summer has not yet come to the Pacific Northwest (PNW). We did get hot when it reached 62F on the 4th. It’s raining now. There are still small pine needles (from Doug firs) on the streets. The wet + pine needles make for a slippery surface which would previously incite DSC and cut power. With the LSD, I can motor through the wet and needles with no bogging or wheel spin. Others have reported that the LSD is useful in ice and snow; I have no doubt that this will be true in the winter ahead.

Corners. The car now “hooks up” in corners—no DSC induced bogging.

Ramps. With the M235i, the rear wheels would slip or the DSC would activate when backing up the ramps. I installed the MPE today and was able to reverse idle up the ramps with no drama.

Few of us would have this car without a need for speed. Now nearing 1,000 miles, I am anxious to use the LSD more aggressively. Whatever gets added here is just icing on the cake as the day-to-day benefits are substantial.

Agreed. The benefits of the LSD can be felt in many driving situations, not just hard driving. I ran my car without the LSD for about 2 years so it's given me the opportunity to fully understand and feel the differences with the LSD.

[CP911]

Originally Posted by MerlinMc

Ramps. With the M235i, the rear wheels would slip or the DSC would activate when backing up the ramps. I installed the MPE today and was able to reverse idle up the ramps with no drama.

Does the LSD actually lock up when going in reverse? Never thought about it before and now I'm curious.

[CP911]

Originally Posted by MetalMK

Looking at all these benefits, XDrive cars also come with them stock, and you can put all the power down in the middle of the corner.

I'm not saying there is no point having RWD with LSD, but in rain and snow as a daily driver, XDrive makes more sense, plus the ability to get going in a snow covered hill. And don't repeat to me added weight on the front.

xDrive does not come with a stock mechanical LSD. You can put all the power down in the middle of a corner with a RWD + LSD as well. The car hooks up and rotates through the corners beautifully. If you need xDrive in a sports coupe to get up icy or wet hills, you are using the wrong tool for the job to begin with. xDrive = pointless in these cars. And then there's the added weight up front... But I'm sure you love your xDrive car, which is fine.

[B58togo]

I'm much more engaged in driving the car with the LSD installed. I find myself using the paddles more and I really love clicking down to M2 on left turns, flexing my right foot a bit and then over sliding the turn by a quick 25-30 degrees and then bringing it back. It's so damn smooth and predictable now!

Oh wait, this is hooliganism isn't it? Oh well, it is fun. Wish I hadn't waited two years to do this. I really need to get the xHP transmission flash and then I think this car will be more or less complete.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Xdrive's don't have mechanical LSDs. On most any track, an xdrive on the same tires will get outrun by a RWD with an LSD. Less weight in the nose and overall, better handling dynamics, less front end push (understeer), less drivetrain loss, etc. It all adds up, lap by lap.

AWD can help in slippery conditions, but a RWD car with an LSD and proper winter tires will be better in most every situations than an xdrive car on all season tires in the snow.

This is true;

I had a loaner car 240i xDrive, it was blistering fast, I bounced off the 130mph limit, within seconds but it understeered heavy, around turns.

Not sure if it's the xDrive because the traction and stability was fully off, so I wager a RWD with a proper LSD would certainly have the advantage, bending corners and power drifting.

Edit: In all fairness, my car did have all-season run-flats..

[Dylan86]

I feel it pulling out of a parking lot at 90 degrees. Also feel it when making lock-to-lock turns like in parking lots or making a 3 point turn on a small road.

Feel it launching and decelerating hard as well, especially if you throw it down a gear and release the clutch aggressively, the back end get's pretty active. But in a good way!

[Luftwaffe1O1]

I don't have an LSD, but honestly a lot of the iffy behavior of the M235/M240 sans LSD is remedied by running with DSC off, however, then you are driving without traction control. But the eLSD seems to do an ok job at keeping the power down.

Its not going to be as good as the LSD obviously, but I found it to be decent. Just FYI, only with DSC off is the eLSD enganged.

[MassNerd]

To echo what Luftwaffe said, I've felt the eLSD in action (DSC off) on the autocross course doing its thing and it works decently well. I've not had the chance to drive with the MP LSD though so I can't compare. I felt the eLSD had a 0.5-1s delay when coming out of a tight corner before it figured things out.

[MerlinMc]

Originally Posted by B58togo

I'm much more engaged in driving the car with the LSD installed. I find myself using the paddles more and I really love clicking down to M2 on left turns, flexing my right foot a bit and then over sliding the turn by a quick 25-30 degrees and then bringing it back. It's so damn smooth and predictable now!

Oh wait, this is hooliganism isn't it? Oh well, it is fun. Wish I hadn't waited two years to do this. I really need to get the xHP transmission flash and then I think this car will be more or less complete.

Only mild hooliganism. Can't wait to get the break in finished!

xHP looks intriguing. Are you happy with this software?

[MetalMK]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Xdrive's don't have mechanical LSDs. On most any track, an xdrive on the same tires will get outrun by a RWD with an LSD. Less weight in the nose and overall, better handling dynamics, less front end push (understeer), less drivetrain loss, etc. It all adds up, lap by lap.

AWD can help in slippery conditions, but a RWD car with an LSD and proper winter tires will be better in most every situations than an xdrive car on all season tires in the snow.

I'm sure you have not driven an Xdrive 2 series before, it does not have more understeer than a rwd car, in fact, the tail steps out quite often.

Xdrive will not get outrun by a rwd one simply because I don't see how you can send all of the 320hp to the skinny back tires in the middle of a corner.

In terms of driving enjoyment, RWD is undoubtably superior, but it is not faster than Xdrive. One of the cars I have beaten is a tuned E60 M5, it has over 530hp and a mechanical LSD.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by MetalMK

I'm sure you have not driven an Xdrive 2 series before, it does not have more understeer than a rwd car, in fact, the tail steps out quite often.

Xdrive will not get outrun by a rwd one simply because I don't see how you can send all of the 320hp to the skinny back tires in the middle of a corner.

In terms of driving enjoyment, RWD is undoubtably superior, but it is not faster than Xdrive. One of the cars I have beaten is a tuned E60 M5, it has over 530hp and a mechanical LSD.

Only in a drag race from 0-100km/h or on a very slippery surface will an M240 Xdrive be faster than an M240i. At higher speeds when traction isn’t a problem, the lower weight RWD car will slowly pull away (assuming not on snow).

In auto-x there is no difference in PAX between the two. Last weekend we had both AWD and RWD M240i at the local auto-x event, both stock on RE-71R tyres in group DS, the RWD car rotates much better, the AWD car can get the power down sooner on turn exit but can’t easily shorten the distance to the next gate through a quick rotation. Basically the AWD car like all AWD cars does ‘C’ shaped turns best, the RWD car like most RWD cars can drive ‘L’ shaped turns better. Most novices do best in AWD cars, but the majority of top drivers use RWD cars for better adjustability.

From a track perspective AWD gives little advantage in the dry when you have less than 500bhp per tonne and weight becomes the enemy over a RWD car when it comes to braking or high speed acceleration, the reason why the RWD Porsche 911 GT3 is still the best ‘common’ track car over any of the AWD 911 models.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by MetalMK

I'm sure you have not driven an Xdrive 2 series before, it does not have more understeer than a rwd car, in fact, the tail steps out quite often.

Xdrive will not get outrun by a rwd one simply because I don't see how you can send all of the 320hp to the skinny back tires in the middle of a corner.

In terms of driving enjoyment, RWD is undoubtably superior, but it is not faster than Xdrive. One of the cars I have beaten is a tuned E60 M5, it has over 530hp and a mechanical LSD.

Only on a short track, like auto-x, plays into the advantages of x-drive. Above ~60mph, the x-drive drivetrain loss impacts acceleration and it starts getting walked by the RWD. The Car & Driver link I provided demonstrates this perfectly as the RWD M235 8AT got to 100mph over 1 second quicker than the M235x 8AT. That's pretty big. The RWD cars tend to post around 2mph faster 1/4 mile trapspeed too. Again, pretty significant.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by MassNerd

To echo what Luftwaffe said, I've felt the eLSD in action (DSC off) on the autocross course doing its thing and it works decently well. I've not had the chance to drive with the MP LSD though so I can't compare. I felt the eLSD had a 0.5-1s delay when coming out of a tight corner before it figured things out.

I used to think that too about the eLSD. It is decent for a "fake" LSD and much better execution of it compared to most automakers. However, people like Dylan86 politely convinced me that the LSD makes a huge difference that's hard to put in words. I really had no idea it would make such a huge difference. I've had my LSD for quite some time and I'm still trying to find all the limits as they are so much higher, especially with the new Michelin PS4S tires. There's so much more traction now that the car actually feels slower to me because of the lack of drama. With the eLSD, the limits were a lot lower so you could explore the limits pretty easily on a B road. With the limits being higher, I have to be more careful as I can carry more speed and probably can't explore all the limits without a lot more risk. I greatly appreciate with high limits and dynamics though. I would NEVER go back. Again, it's a totally different car with the LSD.

[MassNerd]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I used to think that too about the eLSD. It is decent for a "fake" LSD and much better execution of it compared to most automakers. However, people like Dylan86 politely convinced me that the LSD makes a huge difference that's hard to put in words. I really had no idea it would make such a huge difference. I've had my LSD for quite some time and I'm still trying to find all the limits as they are so much higher, especially with the new Michelin PS4S tires. There's so much more traction now that the car actually feels slower to me because of the lack of drama. With the eLSD, the limits were a lot lower so you could explore the limits pretty easily on a B road. With the limits being higher, I have to be more careful as I can carry more speed and probably can't explore all the limits without a lot more risk. I greatly appreciate with high limits and dynamics though. I would NEVER go back. Again, it's a totally different car with the LSD.

I'm definitely leaning towards the LSD as my first upgrade (probably next spring).

Since you had the car both before and after the LSD upgrade, can you comment on my observation about the eLSD delay between the wheels slipping before the eLSD kicks in and manages it? Did you observe the same thing and how does the mech LSD compare?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by MassNerd

Since you had the car both before and after the LSD upgrade, can you comment on my observation about the eLSD delay between the wheels slipping before the eLSD kicks in and manages it? Did you observe the same thing and how does the mech LSD compare?

Yes, I noticed a slight reactive delay with the eLSD before it really stepped in. To me, it always felt a bit like hitting ice. The back end would slide out easily, but couldn't generate much of any forward momentum under throttle. It also had this somewhat dramatic rocking/pitch motion. Oddly, it was most noticeable to me when going full power in 2nd gear in a straight line. The tires would slip and I could feel the back rocking back and forth slightly. I thought this was caused by soft rear bushings and springs. Turns out, it's the eLSD (i.e. brakes) trying to manage the spin between the two tires. With the LSD, this trait completely disappeared. It simply squats and goes like you would expect.

As for the time for the LSD to react, it's not discernible to me once the LSD had about 1,000 miles on it. I can feel when it's doing its thing, but I don't feel it spring into action like I did the eLSD. It's hard to explain. My prior car was a tuned 2012 WRX. With the LSD, my M235 feels wildly similar to the WRX on dead stop launch and going heavy throttle around a turn. There's so much mechanical grip now. Luckily the M235 doesn't have insane understeer or annoying torque steer the WRX had