[RPM90]

Recently I read an article comparing the Audi S3 with the M235xi.
A couple of days ago I test drove an S3 and I've driven the M235i.

The point of this thread are the audio systems in these cars.
The S3 had the B&O system and the 2 series has the HK.
I have an F30 335i Sport with the HK audio system, which is a good bit higher powered than the HK in the 2 series.

I listened to the B&O in the S3 and was HIGHLY impressed with it's quality.
The HK in my 335i and the B&O have pretty much the same power rating at
600 watts for HK and 705 for B&O. HK in the 2 series is quite a bit less at
360 watts.

I like the B&O a good bit more than my HK in my 335i.
The sub bass is more defined, and best of all the high end is crisp yet smooth whereas the high end in the HK system is crisp but also quite brittle due to the titanium dome tweeters. High end is brittle and fatiguing with HK and I need to turn the volume down after a while as the high just tires my ears.
The B&O is quite a bit smoother and more musical over all.

The comparo article with the S3 and M235xi is very surprising because it compares the same B&O I listened to with the lower powered HK in the 2 series. The comparo writer writes:

"The M235i also takes the prize for its sound system, with its Harman/Kardon Sound (part of the $2,500 Executive Package) taking an easy win over the Audi’s Bang & Olufsen setup. The latter lacks the ability to fine-tune the sound field and provides a glut of mid-range power compared to the HK system. The death knell comes from the B&O’s refusal to cooperate with an old-school iPod classic, relegating my driving partner to listening to overly compressed satellite radio instead. [As opposed to overly compressed MP3s…. –Ed.]"

That's interesting because the HK in the 2 series doesn't have any way to fine tune the sound field nor the eq as the HK in m 3 series. My system has and eq and all I can do with the sound field is turn it on or off.
With the B&O there isn't an eq but there is a surround effect level control that goes from full on to full off.

So I don't understand what this writer is talking about. It's a Canadian writer. Does BMW offer a different HK system in Canada? I don't think so they do.
As I said my 335i HK system is not as good as the B&O, yet that reviewer states the lower powered HK in the 2 series beats the B&O system.
Very odd considering I've heard from others that the 2 series HK is not as good as the HK in the 3 series.

Anyone had the chance to hear all 3 systems B&O, HK 360 watts, HK 600 watts? And if so what is your impression?

[PrazVT]

I haven't heard the B&O, but SQ tends to be a bit subjective. I had the HK in my F30 328i and I have it in my 228i. In the 328i, I used a portable DAC connected to an iPod playing Apple lossless (and then later, a HiFi player w/ a line out to play FLAC). I found that audio quality was better using a 3rd party DAC, as opposed to the stock HU. IMHO, the HU (ie, pre-amp) is the culprit when it comes to the slight lack of bass and occasional harshness of high frequencies in the HK. Whenever I used the DAC-bases sources plugged into the aux in, the SQ was smoother, less harsh, and the bass output was significantly higher (and I'm talking line-out, not headphone output).

It's a similar situation in the 228i, but I'm not sure I feel it sounds thaaat harsh. I didn't have NBT in the 328i, but I got it in the 228i. I have an SSD filled w/ FLAC files that play directly via iDrive and I've gotten used to it. But I know if I use my FiiO x5 hifi player, audio quality will prob be a little smoother / stronger. But I've gotten use to the convenience of the iDrive controller. It would have been nice to keep the EQ controls in the 228i though. I typically try not to mess w/ bass/treble (from a purist POV), but dropping the high frequencies down a notch or two would help.

Again ..I think it's a HU / pre-amp think personally. The class D amps in the HK system are probably more than enough power-wise.

Of course, if you're coming from a car where you had a custom amp and a giant sub, it takes a little getting used to, to stick w/ the HK system. My first 'new' car was a Mazda 3 and I had a setup like that.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by PrazVT

I haven't heard the B&O, but SQ tends to be a bit subjective. I had the HK in my F30 328i and I have it in my 228i. In the 328i, I used a portable DAC connected to an iPod playing Apple lossless (and then later, a HiFi player w/ a line out to play FLAC). I found that audio quality was better using a 3rd party DAC, as opposed to the stock HU. IMHO, the HU (ie, pre-amp) is the culprit when it comes to the slight lack of bass and occasional harshness of high frequencies in the HK. Whenever I used the DAC-bases sources plugged into the aux in, the SQ was smoother, less harsh, and the bass output was significantly higher (and I'm talking line-out, not headphone output).

It's a similar situation in the 228i, but I'm not sure I feel it sounds thaaat harsh. I didn't have NBT in the 328i, but I got it in the 228i. I have an SSD filled w/ FLAC files that play directly via iDrive and I've gotten used to it. But I know if I use my FiiO x5 hifi player, audio quality will prob be a little smoother / stronger. But I've gotten use to the convenience of the iDrive controller. It would have been nice to keep the EQ controls in the 228i though. I typically try not to mess w/ bass/treble (from a purist POV), but dropping the high frequencies down a notch or two would help.

Again ..I think it's a HU / pre-amp think personally. The class D amps in the HK system are probably more than enough power-wise.

Of course, if you're coming from a car where you had a custom amp and a giant sub, it takes a little getting used to, to stick w/ the HK system. My first 'new' car was a Mazda 3 and I had a setup like that.

OP, also keep in mind that the vast majority of listeners -- even some who claim to be sound experts -- don't know how a poor DAC, transport, or preamp can negatively affect the sound of an otherwise decent system. (PrazVT's mobile DAC/FiiO x5 setup is a great example of this -- kudos to him.)

But believe it or not, an iPod fed straight into a system is a great way to A/B a HU's digital conversion capabilities because most iPods have a very good DAC in them. (The journalist's iPod Classic -- assuming it's the last version made -- is likely the best of all iPods, in fact.) The bottleneck is almost always file quality -- but load AIFF or Apple Lossless files onto it and that's eliminated.

Thing is, the HU in a 2-series is the same, whether you have H/K or Hi-Fi sound. And the HU in our cars S-U-C-K-S when it comes to converting rich digital programming such as lossless DMFs -- and in my particular car (Hi-Fi), I've even noted that the CD player has issues with dense and dynamic music. The jitter is audible, and it's almost certainly a flaw in the DAC processing in the HU.

Going beyond that, our stereos have other weaknesses -- for instance, the HK amp is not all that much more powerful than the Hi-Fi amp because it's powering at least four extra speakers. Another instance: the speakers used in either setup use poor materials and small magnets (H/K speakers are slightly better than the Hi-Fi ones, but not by much).

In essence, weaknesses in car stereos can come from anywhere -- and car manufacturers are very wise in knowing that most consumers aren't sound experts and assume that paying extra for a 'name' to be involved automatically makes something drastically better. It doesn't -- in a 2-series' case, or an Audi 3's case.

[BEM-S4]

Have B&O in the Allroad and must say I definitely prefer it to the HK, even in a wagon with a lot more ambient noise.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Have B&O in the Allroad and must say I definitely prefer it to the HK, even in a wagon with a lot more ambient noise.

I too prefer the B&O to the HK Logic7 in my 335i Msport.
Compared to the upgraded Hi-Fi in my 135i both the L7 and B&O sound a good deal better.

Media source notwithstanding, an audio system should not be compared based on what is being played back.
Why? Because, when doing a proper comparison you need to use the same source to make sure you are comparing like for like.

Comparing a CD in one system while using a highly compressed MP3 in another isn't going to give a proper comparison because your source is not the same.

Many people say that the HK system sounds better when a better media source is used. Well....of course.
A highly compressed MP3 or satellite radio isn't going to sound better than a high quality CD even if you're playing those through a 1 watt amplified single full range speaker.

When I'm listening to satellite radio through the B&O system and comparing it to my HK L7, I prefer the B&O.
For both systems I'm using same/similar source.
If I were to listen to the same CD in both systems I'm quite sure the same result would come from it.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I too prefer the B&O to the HK Logic7 in my 335i Msport.
Compared to the upgraded Hi-Fi in my 135i both the L7 and B&O sound a good deal better.

Media source notwithstanding, an audio system should not be compared based on what is being played back.
Why? Because, when doing a proper comparison you need to use the same source to make sure you are comparing like for like.

Comparing a CD in one system while using a highly compressed MP3 in another isn't going to give a proper comparison because your source is not the same.

Many people say that the HK system sounds better when a better media source is used. Well....of course.
A highly compressed MP3 or satellite radio isn't going to sound better than a high quality CD even if you're playing those through a 1 watt amplified single full range speaker.

When I'm listening to satellite radio through the B&O system and comparing it to my HK L7, I prefer the B&O.
For both systems I'm using same/similar source.
If I were to listen to the same CD in both systems I'm quite sure the same result would come from it.

Well put. It all starts with the source material -- particularly if its digital. Back in the days of cassette tapes (!!!), the player and medium were other variables; cassette tape came in several different metallurgies, and players used heads of varying qualities, too -- and then there was the dreaded 'wow and flutter'. If your DMP and/or DAC oversamples well enough, neither player nor medium really matters all that much except for file quality, signal path (interference potential, S/N ratio, etc.), and jitter.

[BEM-S4]

Yeah, I went CD to CD after casual listening peaked my interest in doing a more scientific comparison. I have a friend who builds very high end audio systems in smart homes, ie did one of Billy Joel's personal listening rooms, so he's beat some common sense into me when it comes to such things.

[5plus2]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Yeah, I went CD to CD after casual listening peaked my interest in doing a more scientific comparison. I have a friend who builds very high end audio systems in smart homes, ie did one of Billy Joel's personal listening rooms, so he's beat some common sense into me when it comes to such things.

I drove my friend's Audi A8 a couple of times and test drove an Audi S4. I definitely preferred B&O to bimmer's HK system. Even with regular FM radio, I can easily tell the more refined sound from the B&O system. I think the H&K system is disappointing, especially in the 2 series.

Back to OP's question, I have not seen any "executive" package offered to the 2 series in the U.S.. The writer must be smoking something while writing the article

Ask ourselves, why the B&O system is offered as an option to higher-end BMWs such as in the 6 series and 7 series? Why not H&K? For the 6 series, B&O system is a $3700 option! which is several times more than the H&K option offered in the 2 and 3 series. Although there are marketing factors reflected in the price difference, it should not be this much.

Another interesting aspect, H&K recently acquired the automotive division of B&O.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by 5plus2

I drove my friend's Audi A8 a couple of times and test drove an Audi S4. I definitely preferred B&O to bimmer's HK system. Even with regular FM radio, I can easily tell the more refined sound from the B&O system. I think the H&K system is disappointing, especially in the 2 series.

Back to OP's question, I have not seen any "executive" package offered to the 2 series in the U.S.. The writer must be smoking something while writing the article

Ask ourselves, why the B&O system is offered as an option to higher-end BMWs such as in the 6 series and 7 series? Why not H&K? For the 6 series, B&O system is a $3700 option! which is several times more than the H&K option offered in the 2 and 3 series. Although there are marketing factors reflected in the price difference, it should not be this much.

Another interesting aspect, H&K recently acquired the automotive division of B&O.

The B&O in the Allroad was like $50 more than the HK in the m235. Bargain of the century if you just look at the delta.