[nike001]

Originally Posted by vapore0n

The problem as described in OP doesnt sound like turbo lag.
Turbo lag is more of a kick in the pants after the car has reached optimal RPMS. The problem is that the car is completely unresponsive. Happens to me all the time and has put me in tight spots. You cant predict this behavior, as it is not consistent.

The overall problem of lag seems like turbo lag.

steady application of throttle minimizes lag, 0 throttle & then mashing the throttle maximizes lag.. since the turbo was in a vacuum and then immediately expected to produce boost with no exhaust gasses.

I don't have the time now, but there are resetting procedures for the transmission. The transmission learns your driving/throttle habits and adjusts itself based off of that for maximum comfort.

I've driven several hundreds of BMWs and some are sensitive and others are dull and laggy. The adaptations depend on how you drive it.

Originally Posted by amw896

how so? I'm in sport+ 99% of the time because there is like 0 lag

The throttle is too sensitive, especially when I'm trying to be good.

I don't want 100% throttle at 50% actual throttle, then 0 throttle input for the rest of the pedal. That's dumb to me.

My car is fast enough to where it doesn't need another system to help me 'think' my car is fast (or faster than what it is).

[vapore0n]

Originally Posted by nike001

The overall problem of lag seems like turbo lag.

steady application of throttle minimizes lag, 0 throttle & then mashing the throttle maximizes lag.. since the turbo was in a vacuum and then immediately expected to produce boost with no exhaust gasses.

I don't have the time now, but there are resetting procedures for the transmission. The transmission learns your driving/throttle habits and adjusts itself based off of that for maximum comfort.

I've driven several hundreds of BMWs and some are sensitive and others are dull and laggy. The adaptations depend on how you drive it. And then its like you just hit hyperspeed

While it does sound like lag, I don't believe it is, as the problem is not there when the car is in sport mode.

Picture this. I coast to an intersection where I cant see cars coming in from either direction, so I let it coast a little further till I stop completely. I want to turn left, and I decide to go and right then I see a car coming in fast. I nail the pedal to the floor in an attempt to move out of the way. My car does absolutely nothing, as if I didn't even press the accelerator. I had held the pedal down for a second, still nothing. Because of all the factors (angle of car, angle of steering, etc), the car decided it was best to not do anything than to risk spinning tires.

That was the worst one Ive had. I usually have the same issue at short stops. Stop, quickly look, accelerate. Car takes 1 sec before it even processes the input. Disabling DTC has mostly fixed this problem. Has made the car much more fun to drive too.

I used to have an STI. This car sure had turbo lag. But even with turbo lag, a car should start moving or reacting to input, till the turbo kicks in.

[Tpeterson]

Originally Posted by amw896

how so? I'm in sport+ 99% of the time because there is like 0 lag

I agree. I use Comfort when in traffic and leisurely acceleration is all that is needed and Sport+ the rest of the time.Sport+ also has less intervention from DSC with helps to dial back some the inherent understeer in the suspension.
I don't understand why so many people feel that the Sport modes make the throttle too sensitive. Since BMW installed throttle by wire their cars have had less than stellar throttle response even in NA engines. There are any number of kits available to overcome this problem.In a car with Sport mode this isn't necessary,so I use it. It definitely is less laggy and the engine sounds like it is getting the amount of fuel it needs to make maximum power. In Comfort it sounds a bit strangled.Those are subjective impressions,of course.

[mortalic]

Originally Posted by raleedy

Probably so; but it is definitely not what the OP was describing.

I read this article too. That's not quite what i'm talking about.

[mortalic]

Originally Posted by vapore0n

The problem as described in OP doesnt sound like turbo lag.
Turbo lag is more of a kick in the pants after the car has reached optimal RPMS. The problem is that the car is completely unresponsive. Happens to me all the time and has put me in tight spots. You cant predict this behavior, as it is not consistent.

Ive run with the DTC off (or on, idk, one push) lately and it has mostly solved the lack of responsiveness. Seems the car is trying to adjust to give you and your passengers a smooth ride by smoothing out inputs. Sometimes, when you are in an intersection and need to move out of the way, you dont want smooth inputs.

Ive run with DTC off during snow storms too and the car behaves more like I want it too.

Yes, I actually posted this after nearly being sideswiped pulling into traffic the other day. I pulled into a tight gap in heavy traffic and the car just basically ignored the gas pedal for about 1 second. That's how you die.
When it finally decided to wake up it chirped the tires but I would have been hit if the oncoming car didn't slow down. It's very inconsistent and not like turbo lag which is pretty easy to predict.

[mortalic]

Originally Posted by vapore0n

While it does sound like lag, I don't believe it is, as the problem is not there when the car is in sport mode.

Picture this. I coast to an intersection where I cant see cars coming in from either direction, so I let it coast a little further till I stop completely. I want to turn left, and I decide to go and right then I see a car coming in fast. I nail the pedal to the floor in an attempt to move out of the way. My car does absolutely nothing, as if I didn't even press the accelerator. I had held the pedal down for a second, still nothing. Because of all the factors (angle of car, angle of steering, etc), the car decided it was best to not do anything than to risk spinning tires.

That was the worst one Ive had. I usually have the same issue at short stops. Stop, quickly look, accelerate. Car takes 1 sec before it even processes the input. Disabling DTC has mostly fixed this problem. Has made the car much more fun to drive too.

I used to have an STI. This car sure had turbo lag. But even with turbo lag, a car should start moving or reacting to input, till the turbo kicks in.

This is exactly the scenario I had happen to me a few days ago. I've driven lot's of turbo cars. I know what lag is and it's nothing if not predictable. This scenario is for sure not predictable.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by vapore0n

While it does sound like lag, I don't believe it is, as the problem is not there when the car is in sport mode.

Picture this. I coast to an intersection where I cant see cars coming in from either direction, so I let it coast a little further till I stop completely. I want to turn left, and I decide to go and right then I see a car coming in fast. I nail the pedal to the floor in an attempt to move out of the way. My car does absolutely nothing, as if I didn't even press the accelerator. I had held the pedal down for a second, still nothing. Because of all the factors (angle of car, angle of steering, etc), the car decided it was best to not do anything than to risk spinning tires.

That was the worst one Ive had. I usually have the same issue at short stops. Stop, quickly look, accelerate. Car takes 1 sec before it even processes the input. Disabling DTC has mostly fixed this problem. Has made the car much more fun to drive too.

I used to have an STI. This car sure had turbo lag. But even with turbo lag, a car should start moving or reacting to input, till the turbo kicks in.

If that is truly the case, then I suggest that your car has something seriously wrong with it.

Have you taken it to BMW to have this problem checked out?

[Kolyan2k]

Will check mine today. I did notice lag when launching, but I figured it's due to my poor clutch work.

I only use Comfort mode on shitty roads, otherwise I am in Sport. In Comfort car does feel like a M Performance Buick lol ))

[vapore0n]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

If that is truly the case, then I suggest that your car has something seriously wrong with it.

Have you taken it to BMW to have this problem checked out?

I did not.
Given that it fixes itself when I reset adaptations or when I put it in sports mode, I took it as that it was working as intended. Selling the car now.

Really wish the M235 xdrive came in manual. That would have been my next car

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by vapore0n

I did not.
Given that it fixes itself when I reset adaptations or when I put it in sports mode, I took it as that it was working as intended. Selling the car now.

Really wish the M235 xdrive came in manual. That would have been my next car

Why do you want xdrive in MA? It's useless here, and RWD is much more enjoyable to drive

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by nike001

Sport mode is fine with autos, but incredibly annoying with 6MTs IMO.

I usually drive around with the DSC/DTC button pushed once.

If you are experiencing the OP's problem with a 6MT, you're doing it wrong.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

If that is truly the case, then I suggest that your car has something seriously wrong with it.

Have you taken it to BMW to have this problem checked out?

I complained about this "black hole" problem (that occasionally comes up in my 528i) on a service visit. I was told it's normal. The best antidote is, when you need to move quickly, to move the AT lever to the left into "S" mode. That actually works.

Incidentally, Sport mode with 6MT in my new car is very satisfactory -- much more so than with AT, as you still have complete control over shift points and gear selection, including the tallest gear, which Sport mode locks out on the AT because it is such an extreme overdrive gear.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by vapore0n

I did not.
Given that it fixes itself when I reset adaptations or when I put it in sports mode, I took it as that it was working as intended. Selling the car now.

Really wish the M235 xdrive came in manual. That would have been my next car

You can get a 340i in manual. It's a little bigger, but with the track handling package it should be a great car. Also, RWD with 6MT is a good combination that will -- with adequate winter tires -- get you around in any weather that doesn't require higher ground clearance, which the xDrive doesn't really offer anyhow.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

Will check mine today. I did notice lag when launching, but I figured it's due to my poor clutch work.

I only use Comfort mode on shitty roads, otherwise I am in Sport. In Comfort car does feel like a M Performance Buick lol ))

I actually did launch it wrong before. It's not something I ever do so I didn't hold DSC button to turn it off completely. I haven't noticed much delay on manual, bites hard too with LSD, minimal spin.

Do you use launch control on auto? Isn't that supposed to build the boost in turbo?

[bozman9]

Originally Posted by vapore0n

While it does sound like lag, I don't believe it is, as the problem is not there when the car is in sport mode.

Picture this. I coast to an intersection where I cant see cars coming in from either direction, so I let it coast a little further till I stop completely. I want to turn left, and I decide to go and right then I see a car coming in fast. I nail the pedal to the floor in an attempt to move out of the way. My car does absolutely nothing, as if I didn't even press the accelerator. I had held the pedal down for a second, still nothing. Because of all the factors (angle of car, angle of steering, etc), the car decided it was best to not do anything than to risk spinning tires.

That was the worst one Ive had. I usually have the same issue at short stops. Stop, quickly look, accelerate. Car takes 1 sec before it even processes the input. Disabling DTC has mostly fixed this problem. Has made the car much more fun to drive too.

I used to have an STI. This car sure had turbo lag. But even with turbo lag, a car should start moving or reacting to input, till the turbo kicks in.

This sounds almost like how the car behaves in ECO PRO mode, but you are experiencing it all the time. Might want to have it checked. I have not noticed anything resembling this. I still have 'normal' throttle response whether in comfort or sport and I am very familiar with turbo lag. My last 6 cars have been AWD Turbos and I haven't found my car to have a huge amount of lag, especially as compared to some.

Bozman

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by raleedy

If you are experiencing the OP's problem with a 6MT, you're doing it wrong.

Maybe you can come and show me how to drive then.

J/K. Seriously though, in 40+ years of driving, all manuals, this is the first turbo car I ever owned. There is no question in my mind that there is a slight hesitation when getting on the throttle in this car unless the turbo is already spooled up. It's really noticeable between shifts when accelerating. It's just a split second, but it makes all the difference.

All my previous cars have been NA V-8s, and this is certainly a different experience. My 2005 Mustang wouldn't skip a beat between shifts, and consequently a hard shift into second will lay down two fat thick rubber strips 20 feet long or so, with Traction Control ON.

That said, I've tracked this car twice - once at Palmer MA and once at Watkins Glen - and the turbo lag is not a factor on the track. Reason is, the inputs on a track should be smooth, so when easing into the throttle the acceleration is smooth.

[AlpsRider]

For me, M235 performs best in DSC off mode (4 second long press on the button).
Sport mode is ok if you need the nannies in bad weather, but in dry warm conditions DSC off is safe and it will set your car free. The car won't twitch every time it slips just a little bit, this really annoys me. In DSC off the rear end simulates a locking differential and the auto transmission shifts super fast. It's also possible to use the throttle when manual shifting the auto tranny just like you would with a manual transmission but without the clutch. You can make completely smooth shifts this way. In DSC off the steering is tight and the throttle is normal...the car doesn't go any faster with the sensitive throttle in sport mode, we know it is just a head fake. I stopped using sport+ since it seems to exaggerate wheel spin for no reason.

By using manual shifting the only lag I get is a split second from a dead stop. By flipping the shifter to the left the auto tranny does a pretty good job but it still gets caught out on occasion.

[Y0tsuya]

I've been driving mine for about a year now. What I've noticed is that it's not just a simple turbo lag. The lag is there definitely. However, the throttle map and the ECU's response to it also matters a lot.

Everybody's aware that the gas pedal these days are drive-by-wire and ECU actually controls the juice. While sport mode works to keep the RPM higher for AT's by shifting later, it does nothing for MTs since the driver selects the gear. What sport mode on MTs do is simply remap the throttle curve from a lazy-linear to a more log-shaped curve. I get the same sort of response from my PedalBox.

Now there are many who will say that throttle remap is unnecessary and you can get the same feel by mashing the pedal. This is not borne out in my tests and what I find is mashing the pedal does not give the same sort of feel as a more aggressive map. I have a theory that the ECU interprets throttle input's dv/dt slew rate and assigns an "urgency" rating, with higher dv/dt generating a higher "urgency". And that my right foot on a flat curve simply cannot generate the dv/dt that matches one from the remapped throttle.

[mortalic]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

If that is truly the case, then I suggest that your car has something seriously wrong with it.

Have you taken it to BMW to have this problem checked out?

I have a service appointment for something else this week. I am going to talk to them about it then and schedule another one if necessary.

[mortalic]

Originally Posted by Y0tsuya

I've been driving mine for about a year now. What I've noticed is that it's not just a simple turbo lag. The lag is there definitely. However, the throttle map and the ECU's response to it also matters a lot.

Everybody's aware that the gas pedal these days are drive-by-wire and ECU actually controls the juice. While sport mode works to keep the RPM higher for AT's by shifting later, it does nothing for MTs since the driver selects the gear. What sport mode on MTs do is simply remap the throttle curve from a lazy-linear to a more log-shaped curve. I get the same sort of response from my PedalBox.

Now there are many who will say that throttle remap is unnecessary and you can get the same feel by mashing the pedal. This is not borne out in my tests and what I find is mashing the pedal does not give the same sort of feel as a more aggressive map. I have a theory that the ECU interprets throttle input's dv/dt slew rate and assigns an "urgency" rating, with higher dv/dt generating a higher "urgency". And that my right foot on a flat curve simply cannot generate the dv/dt that matches one from the remapped throttle.

Great insight, I'm guessing you've had your car a little longer than me.

[BEM-S4]

If you're still not happy after the service appointment and they've verified nothing wrong with the car, rather than getting rid of it right away I'd try a Dinan tune. I say Dinan for a number of reasons. Yes it's the most expensive but you're already having issues so the warranty is good. And if it doesn't help, you can return it and you're only out the $200 install. They say 3 days but I just got one on my dad's sport wagon and they agreed to a week since getting up there in the middle of the week was a hassle. Seems like a good thing to try before taking a beating getting rid of the car.

[raleedy]

I'll try again. I've experienced this in my 528i. It's frightening. It feels like the engine room is on strike or just ignoring the command from the bridge. It is completely solved by moving the transmission lever to the left into "S". It's a transmission software issue.