[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I have gone over the reason what BMW are adding additional FWD vehicles in regards to sustaining MINI , Market demands and the progress of the customer that the days selling specifically for 10% market share for enthusiasts has long been dismissed by any manufacturer especially in the recent fragile economic climate. BMW need volume to sustain its independence and future.

If you want to know more then use the search button as I have mentioned it multiple times before.

Market demands - what market demands? BMW is in the midst of record sales and profits, yes? What is it about today's climate that says you must go to the FWD platform?

It's because the catering to badge whores is in full swing - let's just be honest here.

[clbmw]

I've said it before but IMO the only BMWs that should be permitted FWD are the people carrier, the not happening 0 series supermini and the entry level 114 and 116 models. The rest are different and better than rivals because of RWD and 50 50 weight distribution.

As the age old phrase goes something like : if it ain't broke don't f*** it

[danimal]

Originally Posted by bimmerbuff

For us in the 10% though, we see: "Oh, the next 2 series is AWD/FWD. Meh. I'd get a 3 or 4 but those are so big now. Don't they sell something smaller with RWD? Oh, not anymore? Hmm. I guess I have to shop other brands now."

The problem is, if you are in the U.S., what other brand would you shop for a small RWD car with 4/5 seats? Who else makes one? I wouldn't really count the Subaru/Scion twins because they are 2+2s with pretty much adult-proof back seats. I also wouldn't count a 3/4 Series or a Cadillac ATS because they are not small.

Basically, if BMW leaves the small, RWD market, that's the end of the small, RWD market in the U.S. Unless another manufacturer steps in to fill the void.

[MikeT]

Originally Posted by danimal

The problem is, if you are in the U.S., what other brand would you shop for a small RWD car with 4/5 seats? Who else makes one? I wouldn't really count the Subaru/Scion twins because they are 2+2s with pretty much adult-proof back seats. I also wouldn't count a 3/4 Series or a Cadillac ATS because they are not small.

Basically, if BMW leaves the small, RWD market, that's the end of the small, RWD market in the U.S. Unless another manufacturer steps in to fill the void.

Nissan supposedly plans on entering the segment with a car tentatively known as "idx."
http://www.motoring.com.au/news/spor...s-up-idx-45543

[Lucky13]

I'm on my 15th new BMW plus one used so 16th rwd. I bought one new Mini back in 2009 a new 2010 Clubman S. I will never buy another fwd vehicle as long as I live especially a Mini. The torque steer was horrible and for the person that said Mini is a great handling car you need to read some very recent reviews where a Mini has finished last in a four car test. Living in the Deep South I have no need or want for all wheel drive and zero chance of me buying a front wheel drive car. I guess the 4 series would still be available but it's already too big for my taste. I would buy a 2 series in year 6-7 of production and keep it forever because I won't buy front wheel drive.

[BlkD12agon]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

I'm on my 15th new BMW plus one used so 16th rwd. I bought one new Mini back in 2009 a new 2010 Clubman S. I will never buy another fwd vehicle as long as I live especially a Mini. The torque steer was horrible and for the person that said Mini is a great handling car you need to read some very recent reviews where a Mini has finished last in a four car test. Living in the Deep South I have no need or want for all wheel drive and zero chance of me buying a front wheel drive car. I guess the 4 series would still be available but it's already too big for my taste. I would buy a 2 series in year 6-7 of production and keep it forever because I won't buy front wheel drive.

I hear you. I use a Honda for my DD and I'm highly considering getting another E46 or an E36 for a DD instead. I decided on the Honda for cheap maintenance but would rather pay extra at this point.

[danimal]

Originally Posted by MikeT

Nissan supposedly plans on entering the segment with a car tentatively known as "idx."
http://www.motoring.com.au/news/spor...s-up-idx-45543

The four-door concept looks promising...the two-door looks like it will have even less usable back seats the the Scion/Subaru twins. Regardless, hope they build these cars!

[hoppy6698]

Originally Posted by danimal

The problem is, if you are in the U.S., what other brand would you shop for a small RWD car with 4/5 seats? Who else makes one? I wouldn't really count the Subaru/Scion twins because they are 2+2s with pretty much adult-proof back seats. I also wouldn't count a 3/4 Series or a Cadillac ATS because they are not small.

Did we forget Porsche? Kind of sucks that we would have to pay that much, but there are other domestic options:
Chevy Camaro
Ford Mustang
Cadillac ATS
Tesla Model III (although this may be e-AWD :P)

Small RWD imports:
Hyundai Genesis Coupe (but getting pudgy quick)
Scion / Subbie Twins
Lexus IS (they may make a coupe someday :P)
Mercedes C Coupe
Porsche 911

Or we can just move to pickup trucks

[John_01]

I heard that Lexus are still rear wheel drive.

[danimal]

Originally Posted by hoppy6698

Did we forget Porsche? Kind of sucks that we would have to pay that much, but there are other domestic options:
Chevy Camaro
Ford Mustang
Cadillac ATS
Tesla Model III (although this may be e-AWD :P)

Small RWD imports:
Hyundai Genesis Coupe (but getting pudgy quick)
Scion / Subbie Twins
Lexus IS (they may make a coupe someday :P)
Mercedes C Coupe
Porsche 911

Or we can just move to pickup trucks

If all that matters is RWD, fine, but if you want small, four or five usable seats, and RWD, the 2 Series is the only game in town. I consider small to be less than 180" in length.

[Ramos]

M2 and keep it forever I guess is the answer for now. Good bye BMW of the future. Sad day

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I have gone over the reason what BMW are adding additional FWD vehicles in regards to sustaining MINI , Market demands and the progress of the customer that the days selling specifically for 10% market share for enthusiasts has long been dismissed by any manufacturer especially in the recent fragile economic climate. BMW need volume to sustain its independence and future.

If you want to know more then use the search button as I have mentioned it multiple times before.

Agreed. I bet these guys haven't driven fwd Bmw. They don't know what thet are talking about. Active tourer drives great. So now that Bmw has fwd cars in its fleet, its future is doomed? Lol no. Moreover already 60% of Bmw's sold here locally are AWDsso what is all this rwd talk? Some areas are a bit behind us though...

[bimmerbuff]

Originally Posted by danimal

If all that matters is RWD, fine, but if you want small, four or five usable seats, and RWD, the 2 Series is the only game in town. I consider small to be less than 180" in length.

True, it's the seating that usually rules out most of the other options (or the price!).

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

I'm on my 15th new BMW plus one used so 16th rwd. I bought one new Mini back in 2009 a new 2010 Clubman S. I will never buy another fwd vehicle as long as I live especially a Mini. The torque steer was horrible and for the person that said Mini is a great handling car you need to read some very recent reviews where a Mini has finished last in a four car test. Living in the Deep South I have no need or want for all wheel drive and zero chance of me buying a front wheel drive car. I guess the 4 series would still be available but it's already too big for my taste. I would buy a 2 series in year 6-7 of production and keep it forever because I won't buy front wheel drive.

I said that too but new Mk 7 GTI at 26K base model is really, cool. Best FWD car I have driven in a long time, especially at the price. So why pay a premium for BMW FWD when GTI is so good?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by John_01

I heard that Lexus are still rear wheel drive.

Nope, Lexus has FWD drive too, including their small hatchback. They also have larger FWD cars too like the ES and even the GX is built on a transverse platform.

[tonyzale]

... Don't forget to change the brand name as well.

[ORIGIN M.]

Instead of BMW using market research to decide what to do with their next cars, why don't they simply educate their customers. The BMW passion is dying more and more every day.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

Agreed. I bet these guys haven't driven fwd Bmw. They don't know what thet are talking about. Active tourer drives great. So now that Bmw has fwd cars in its fleet, its future is doomed? Lol no. Moreover already 60% of Bmw's sold here locally are AWDsso what is all this rwd talk? Some areas are a bit behind us though...

The Active Tourer is a great car for those that are shopping in that segment.
It has great flexibility and versatility in the 218d M Sport that sits on my driveway. Already it has taken a trip to the South of France and back , economy was outstanding as was comfort. Equipped with the sport transmission provided effortless journeys. The driving position was also great and there was no complaints from the rear passengers who had the optional rear screens to keep them occupied.

The car hits the European market this week and BMW already have significant pre-orders for the car.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by danimal

The problem is, if you are in the U.S., what other brand would you shop for a small RWD car with 4/5 seats? Who else makes one? I wouldn't really count the Subaru/Scion twins because they are 2+2s with pretty much adult-proof back seats. I also wouldn't count a 3/4 Series or a Cadillac ATS because they are not small.

Basically, if BMW leaves the small, RWD market, that's the end of the small, RWD market in the U.S. Unless another manufacturer steps in to fill the void.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Then again, what's the point of having a 2er that weighs as much as a 3er/4er...

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Then again, what's the point of having a 2er that weighs as much as a 3er/4er...

It combines the impact-protecting mass of a 3 Series with better handling of a smaller package! Sounds good to me, as I wasn't looking for a sports car like a Porsche, and I don't want to be the lowest mass car in a mishap! Doesn't mean I should get a Volvo, but this is a great compromise/combination!

[danimal]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Then again, what's the point of having a 2er that weighs as much as a 3er/4er...

Yeah, there really isn't much of a weight savings. My 228i (3260 lbs) weighs 120 pounds less than my '07 328i sedan (3380 lbs) even though it's smaller in every dimension. Definitely wish the 228i weighed closer to 3,000 lbs.

Still, since the 228i is my daily driver, I really do appreciate the smaller dimensions in themselves. The car is simply easier to park and maneuver.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

It combines the impact-protecting mass of a 3 Series with better handling of a smaller package! Sounds good to me, as I wasn't looking for a sports car like a Porsche, and I don't want to be the lowest mass car in a mishap! Doesn't mean I should get a Volvo, but this is a great compromise/combination!

Mass really doesn't have much to do with impact safety. Proper chassis design and material selection matters much much much more.

If you don't believe me, look at these two videos. Both of these cars were produced in the same era. However one has a well designed and relatively light chassis, the other is poorly designed yet weighs over 1000lbs more.

Here is another comparison,

Now, I'm sure you can find plenty of videos of small cars doing poorly as well, but that only further proves my point of how little mass really matters.