[rainfall]

Here in pacific northwest it snows about 10 days a year, so I didn't bother getting x-drive on my 2 series.

The only thing that bugged me was "what about the 10 days?"

Well, I had to drive 30 mins each way to work today and we had quite a bit of slush in the streets today. The original PSS had been replaced 1.5 years ago for Pilot A/S 3+ but I never really had to drive much this car in the snow (only light grocery about 2-3 miles away). Man, I'm impressed w/ these tires.

I mean, they aren't snow tires I could go to a football field with 10 inches of snow, but I felt the traction was very decent for an all-season tire set.
Temperature range was 30-35 along the way and it snowed a bit too.

[M Smurf]

I have been running around with RWD and winter tires for several years now in MN. The tires are so good and the car so balanced that I have no interest whatsover in AWD in the future!

I have been caught mid April in snow after swapping out the winter for summer tread that my next set will be those, the AS 3+.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by rainfall

we had quite a bit of slush

The only time I've had a problem with deep slush when running all-seasons was when I didn't have sufficient tread depth. As long as the tread can reach the surface in those conditions, the A/S work pretty well.

[CE750Jockey]

Once again, "All Season" tires, are really "No Season" tires. They're just "Ok" in the snow, and just "Ok" on dry pavement. They're not particularly good at anything. Unfortunately, the marketing machine has been very good at convincing people for years now that these tires are some kind of miracle cure for all conditions. They're not. I've driven a RWD 2er with dedicated snow tires for 5 winters in the snow belt, and have NEVER come close to getting stuck. A RWD with dedicated snows will do much better than a AWD car with "all season" tires. It's not even close. In fact Tire Rack had some great videos showing the performance difference between the tires. It's quite revealing. Have a look here:

[Liandri]

There is a new class out since that video, called all-weather tires, that are an all season tire but bias on the side of winter/snow tire. As opposed to traditional all season that bias on the side of summer. I have them on my subaru (winter car) so i can also still use the car as an extra in summer. The tires are specifically toyo celsius, and the nokian wr-g4 are the more premium version. They are awesome, kick ass in winter, and don't shed rubber in summer. Highly recommended if you must pick only one tire for year round duty and don't need ultra performance in the summer. The car is fully tuned, with coilovers and swaybars, and still handles off ramps at high speed without too much loss compared to an all season. It's my understanding they were engineered for the crossover market where it would be highly applicable in the northeast

[damianbmw12]

I run winter and summer tires and wheels and put Pirelli Sottozero 3 on my E46 RWD. Amazing snow tire. Reviews would suggest they won't last long but I'll get them again because they have impressed me so much. I also put them on the new 2er xDrive which has not seen the snow yet. I am sure it will eventually being in snow country🙃

[aerobod]

In British Columbia where rental cars have to have winter tyres fitted now for any mountain passes between 1 Oct and 30 Apr, I had a car with all-weather tyres installed that I rented in the summer. It was frankly somewhat dangerous due to poor traction on wet and dry roads in 35C temperatures and poor stability in high speed turns, basically had to be driven like it was towing a trailer.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Praetor353

There is a new class out since that video, called all-weather tires, that are an all season tire but bias on the side of winter/snow tire. The tires are specifically toyo celsius, and the nokian wr-g4 are the more premium version.

We had Nokian WRGs on the wife's FWD Volvo wagon while living 18 miles west by southwest of Manchester, NH. Our home was at 1,250' at the very eastern edge of the Monadnock Region's winter snowfall range.

For us, the WRG didn't really work out; it was much more an all-season tire than it was a winter tire. Ice on slopes was a particular problem. We could count on having to deal with ice almost every winter and often many times each winter.

In the end, it turned out to be more satisfactory to run summers and winters. If we'd been living in town, I'm sure the WRGs would have been fine.

[MarcoZandrini]

I used to Bridgestone Bizzaks on all 4 corners of my 2001 330Ci. Mounted them originally on cheeep alloys, then BMW steelies. I used to laugh at the SUVs with all season tires slipping and sliding! It's all in the tires.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by CE750Jockey

Once again, "All Season" tires, are really "No Season" tires. They're just "Ok" in the snow, and just "Ok" on dry pavement. They're not particularly good at anything. Unfortunately, the marketing machine has been very good at convincing people for years now that these tires are some kind of miracle cure for all conditions. They're not. I've driven a RWD 2er with dedicated snow tires for 5 winters in the snow belt, and have NEVER come close to getting stuck. A RWD with dedicated snows will do much better than a AWD car with "all season" tires. It's not even close. In fact Tire Rack had some great videos showing the performance difference between the tires. It's quite revealing. Have a look here:

He's right!

Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini

I used to Bridgestone Bizzaks on all 4 corners of my 2001 330Ci. Mounted them originally on cheeep alloys, then BMW steelies. I used to laugh at the SUVs with all season tires slipping and sliding! It's all in the tires.

And, he's right, too!

The tires are the only part that touch the ground and have traction. Still chuckle at people who think that xDrive "adds traction". It only adds power to two more wheels. Whether there is traction or not is a function solely of the tires!

[MassNerd]

Originally Posted by CE750Jockey

Once again, "All Season" tires, are really "No Season" tires. They're just "Ok" in the snow, and just "Ok" on dry pavement. They're not particularly good at anything. Unfortunately, the marketing machine has been very good at convincing people for years now that these tires are some kind of miracle cure for all conditions. They're not. I've driven a RWD 2er with dedicated snow tires for 5 winters in the snow belt, and have NEVER come close to getting stuck. A RWD with dedicated snows will do much better than a AWD car with "all season" tires. It's not even close. In fact Tire Rack had some great videos showing the performance difference between the tires. It's quite revealing.

Some people are just happy with mediocre performance in all seasons! They likely never push the car or haven't had to avoid other cars on ice.

[damianbmw12]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

He's right!

And, he's right, too!

The tires are the only part that touch the ground and have traction. Still chuckle at people who think that xDrive "adds traction". It only adds power to two more wheels. Whether there is traction or not is a function solely of the tires!

👍

[albertw]

One issue the fans of two sets of tires never discuss is the shoulder seasons. I lived for many years in a region that had a month each spring and fall when the weather switched several times between summer and winter. That's almost 20% of the year when you are guaranteed to have a few days when your tires are completely inappropriate for the conditions, regardless of when you do the change. That seems like a pretty good argument for all seasons.

[M Smurf]

Originally Posted by M Smurf

I have been running around with RWD and winter tires for several years now in MN. The tires are so good and the car so balanced that I have no interest whatsover in AWD in the future!

I have been caught mid April in snow after swapping out the winter for summer tread that my next set will be those, the AS 3+.

Originally Posted by albertw

One issue the fans of two sets of tires never discuss is the shoulder seasons. I lived for many years in a region that had a month each spring and fall when the weather switched several times between summer and winter. That's almost 20% of the year when you are guaranteed to have a few days when your tires are completely inappropriate for the conditions, regardless of when you do the change. That seems like a pretty good argument for all seasons.

My thoughts exactly

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by albertw

One issue the fans of two sets of tires never discuss is the shoulder seasons. I lived for many years in a region that had a month each spring and fall when the weather switched several times between summer and winter. That's almost 20% of the year when you are guaranteed to have a few days when your tires are completely inappropriate for the conditions, regardless of when you do the change. That seems like a pretty good argument for all seasons.

Good point. The shoulder season here can last for a handful of weeks – or, as it has this year, it can last for months on end. Winter...what winter!?!

That's why I bought a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ all-seasons to go with my track, summer, and winter tires.

[MassNerd]

Originally Posted by albertw

One issue the fans of two sets of tires never discuss is the shoulder seasons. I lived for many years in a region that had a month each spring and fall when the weather switched several times between summer and winter. That's almost 20% of the year when you are guaranteed to have a few days when your tires are completely inappropriate for the conditions, regardless of when you do the change. That seems like a pretty good argument for all seasons.

The Michelin Pilot Super Sports that came on the car still had lots of grip at 35F (contrary to what some may say). And my snows, Michelin PA4's were fine at 50F the other day. I've never felt I had a "completely inappropriate" tire on the car.

[Pray for Mojo]

This is my 6th winter with my RWD M235i, it's never let me down. With the addition of the LSD two years ago she'll go anywhere there is enough ground clearance. I don't see the need for shoulder season tires, my winters go on at Halloween and Summers at Easter, never had an issue with MPSS or PS4S at freezing and minor slush, you just have to drive like a normal person.

[aerobod]

I don’t put the wheels away in shoulder seasons for a couple of weeks, takes 20 minutes to swap them if the weather is warmer or cooler than expected. Normally only need to do a re-swap once a year or so. On the track car wheels get swapped sometimes several times in a day between slick and wet tyres, so wheel swaps are not really a big deal for me.

[Pray for Mojo]

For me it's storing another set of tires/wheels along with my other vehicles summer and winter sets. My garage already seems like a tire shop with 3 vehicles and 2 sets each.

[rainfall]

One question though... is LSD SAFER or not for slippery conditions like that?

I saw videos where ppl claim more traction in corners, but also saw many ppl cautioning it's easier to spinoff. What's the verdict in slippery corners?

[Pray for Mojo]

Power being put down on 2 wheels rather than 1 is always better. The ediff is pretty good at using the brakes to transfer power from the slipping wheel, but the LSD makes the car much more predictable.

[harma24]

Originally Posted by albertw

OThat's almost 20% of the year when you are guaranteed to have a few days when your tires are completely inappropriate for the conditions, regardless of when you do the change. That seems like a pretty good argument for all seasons.

So you'd rather have a tire that's perfecly suited for the environment 0% of the time than have the appropriate tire 80% of the time? As the old saying goes (and as noted in the video), summer tires are a jack of all trades, but a master of none.

I was in the all season tire camp until I drove my first set of winters. They are well worth it.

Originally Posted by MassNerd

The Michelin Pilot Super Sports that came on the car still had lots of grip at 35F (contrary to what some may say). And my snows, Michelin PA4's were fine at 50F the other day. I've never felt I had a "completely inappropriate" tire on the car.

Agreed MN. I have the same two sets and have never had any serious concerns. It was 70deg F here this past weekend. While I was concerned about tread wear, handling was not a concern for daily driving on my PA4's. Likewise, I've been caught in October / late April/May cold snaps / light snow on my PSS's. Cold is fine for daily driving (although light snow was not fun). That's not to say I would try tracking my car on the wrong set of tires, but for daily driving, it's certainly manageable without any extra effort and not a death sentence.