[gabgonz]

I looked for months at all the CPO 2 series cars in all of California and there were very few that showed up with 6MT. I even considered a 228 or 230 with the M sport package, although I questioned whether I would regret the power differential.

My requirements were similar to the OP. Not white or silver, RWD, LSD, reasonably low miles, not run flats (top speed limit) and most important, 6MT. Nothing on the BMW CPO site for either M235 or M240 for months. Then two 2016 M235s showed up at the same time at the local Carmax. One Xdrive, the other a MT with 20,000 miles. I went to check out the 6MT the same day. It had things I didn't care about, like Nav and leather, but I've come to like both. Especially since I just installed the Carplay MMI.

I'm very happy I held out for the MT, even if it doesn't have the LSD. I'm also glad I didn't get an M2 (there were tons of them CPO) because it's my daily driver and I just did a 1000 mile round trip visit to my sister over Christmas and, even with Michelin PS4S installed, it was very comfortable. Oh, yes, it came with tires of a brand I never heard of, and can't remember now. Those went right away.

[Maynard]

I'd suggest doing a WTB ad in the Roundel, and anyplace else you can get one in free or cheap (?Grassroots ?Hemmings). As noted, listings are often incomplete, and you'll get a much better quality of car if it is from somebody waiting for that special somebody to sell to. I also hear from many people who took an MT initially that they get sick of it over time - probably not so much that they've already traded it in, but a WTB ad might get them to consider it. Our local dealership has had MT 2's most times I've been there, so they aren't really unicorns.

And the post above is misleading - you could get the high-speed option with summer RFT's. Best bet is to get the vin and run an options check, since it is so easy to swap in the staggered wheels onto a car that was originally limited. Happy Hunting.

[IchMagMunchen]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

Is the selection always so poor? I know the take rate for the manual is low, but man, I hoped for more than 8 coupes nationwide. I feel that the only one I have any interest in is very overpriced, but with so few cars on the market, I guess they can charge what they want. I just don't want to pass up on this one and regret it because there may not be another one I like for some time.

I was in the same boat. I wanted a 6MT M240i with adaptive LEDs (if 2018 or later, adaptive Xenons were standard for MY2017) and navigation (for the big screen, enhanced iDrive), and heated seats and steering wheel.

I generally prefer used cars, but after searching for a few months I decided to order a new one. My dealer agreed for 1500 below invoice, and there are $3750 in BMW incentives at the moment.

Ordering also means you can get the car exactly the way you want and shopping and negotiating is easier, although you'll have to wait a couple of months to get it.

My car is in production now, should get it sometime next month.

[Lucky13]

My manual is pretty rare simply because its silver and you can only get the silver on the M2 now. I’ve got red interior which is rare and only 17,000 miles on a 2014. Had to special order because dealers don’t ever stock manuals and most dealers just order black interiors.

[WolfGTI]

Mine is Alpine white (not rare) with Terra leather .. Also had to order because dealer didn't have a 2 or a stick on premise. Very happy with it.

[Jwbaker13]

Following the link you posted - that 2018 in Ocala FL with low mileage for $36 is interesting. It's white but you could always wrap it.

[4Hockey4]

Black on black MT low mileage MT CPO. https://www.bmwofannapolis.com/inven...2g1c37hv665344

Go run CPO 2017 AT with under 30K mileage at BMW CPO site. Many $33K or less, like 20. MT ? Not so much. Dealers know what they have, occ. you can get lucky with private owner.

https://www.bmwofsanantonio.com/cert...969d56a3e0.htm

Similar mileage, clean car fax also, $3k difference.

When I bought mine in fall, was finding about the same

Cheers hope you find a nice one

[VasWander]

Get used to bro the 6MT is a dinosaur. When I was your age I drove a 1963 International Scout wit a 1/2 V8 that went anywhere. I have a 2018 6MT M240i garage queen 1 of 75 in the USA M performance editions I might sell.

[VasWander]

19" M Performance Summer Wheels, 18" BBS Winter Wheels. Ya I take care of my cars. Garage queen. Warranty. Work move need 4runner.

[VasWander]

Clear Bra entire front 1/4, tint, both sets wheels tires (have new rear summers in garage) pushing 11K miles, warranty.

[rainfall]

You might want to order one. When I was looking to get my m235i, I wasn't finding one with the specs I wanted so I was ready to order. My dealer wasn't haggling much but when it got closer to month end he eventually was willing to give 9% off MSRP if I recall correctly.

If you are local to PNW area, let me know if you want me to hit you up with him.

I eventually found the dream car ready to go, so I didn't have to order mine.

p.s.: yes, do get the 6MT. So much better engagement.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

That guy with the orange car is wack if he thinks he is getting $59,000, and an M2, in any case, is just a bit more car than I need. I really wish I could like the ZF8's molasses downshifts

Not going to question whether age is a factor here, but I'd love to see you downshift one of my manuals and then we could compare to the ZF...

I absolutely love manual cars, buy everything I can get in a manual and I've never ran into anyone that felt like anything to do with the ZF's transmission was "molasses".

Originally Posted by Covfefe

I think the M2 comp is probably worth the coin when you consider the resale over a new M240i.

Neither car does particularly well on the secondary market, both are very hard sells.

[RvR]

They know what sells to people that walk in, and thus they option them that way, and most buyers are walk-in, not build-to-order. If you're enthusiast-picky, what suits walk-in buyers likely won't be what you want.

I read somewhere, likely in a post here, that the F22 manual take rate runs 5%. The highest manual take rates, AFAIK, are for the VW GTI and Golf R, they run around 45% manuals. Heck, even Porsche discontinued manuals in the GT3 until enough U.S. buyers fussed, that they brought it back, and even created a Touring model that comes only with a manual.

Most dealers don't like a car that's going to take too long to sell, they're a business and want to turn inventory. My dealer has a left-over Phoenix Yellow metallic M3 that nobody around here will buy. I'm okay with the color, but buyers in this area clearly want a more sedate paint. He's tried discounting it, courting people, and yet it's still there. He may have to swap it to another area where yellow appeals to buyers. I expect he'll lose money on it.

As to the transmission, I've owned almost nothing but manuals including BMW, but I think in Sport mode, the ZF 8 Speed on the M235i/M240i works quite well. I can't think of a better torque-converter automatic than the ZF 8 speed. If you want a manual, it will be quite the hunt, because I'll bet almost no dealers would order a manual F22 for showroom stock, they want a car that'll sell quickly.

As the other guys have said, the only sure-fire way to get one is order one; it's what I did. The suggestion for putting a wanted-to-buy ad in Roundel is a good one, though. That's a subset of enthusiasts likely to have more than 5% manual owners.

[Maynard]

Trust me that a WTB will bring interest. You'll notice that even from this post you get some interest - a few posts above is somebody posting he might want to sell. And you'll likely get a better quality prior owner, which makes a ton of difference in an MT. Even a BMW will suffer mightily from just a few 'test drives' by somebody who really doesn't know how to drive stick, or the idiot autoyard boys that never saw a stick before.

[Covfefe]

Originally Posted by nvmaddog

Not going to question whether age is a factor here, but I'd love to see you downshift one of my manuals and then we could compare to the ZF...

I absolutely love manual cars, buy everything I can get in a manual and I've never ran into anyone that felt like anything to do with the ZF's transmission was "molasses".

Neither car does particularly well on the secondary market, both are very hard sells.

You could be right! I've never even driven a stick before, but my observation of the m235i downshifts is that they were individually quick, but each downshift didn't get me anywhere. I needed four downshifts to get it where it needs to be. And after pulling the paddle four times, the computer and I have lost track of where the gearbox is and needs to be.

The hold paddle feature is neat, but I've read of its inconsistency and I don't want it to go above 5500 on a downshift, which I assume it would routinely do.

Frankly, the 8AT is just not a good transmission to manual shift. Maybe I'll get some hate for that, but it clearly is out of its comfort zone letting the driver pick the gears instead of just mashing past the kick down. It's great in traffic and responding to the kick down, but I expect better than that.

Ultimately, I think I'm going to put my search on pause for a bit. I came into some inheritance, so I started looking at M2Cs, then M240is, and now I'm thinking about getting a motorcycle or doing nothing but keep my paid off 135i . The m235i was not worth the $20,000 it would've cost me to get into it IMO, and while a stick might be just for the fun, learning, and differentiating factor, It's hard to get out of a paid off car that has very little wrong with it. It's tough to be a frugal car enthusiast!

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

You could be right! I've never even driven a stick before, but my observation of the m235i downshifts is that they were individually quick, but each downshift didn't get me anywhere. I needed four downshifts to get it where it needs to be. And after pulling the paddle four times, the computer and I have lost track of where the gearbox is and needs to be.

The hold paddle feature is neat, but I've read of its inconsistency and I don't want it to go above 5500 on a downshift, which I assume it would routinely do.

Frankly, the 8AT is just not a good transmission to manual shift. Maybe I'll get some hate for that, but it clearly is out of its comfort zone letting the driver pick the gears instead of just mashing past the kick down. It's great in traffic and responding to the kick down, but I expect better than that.

Ultimately, I think I'm going to put my search on pause for a bit. I came into some inheritance, so I started looking at M2Cs, then M240is, and now I'm thinking about getting a motorcycle or doing nothing but keep my paid off 135i . The m235i was not worth the $20,000 it would've cost me to get into it IMO, and while a stick might be just for the fun, learning, and differentiating factor, It's hard to get out of a paid off car that has very little wrong with it. It's tough to be a frugal car enthusiast!

Most non high end performance auto's are not great at manual shifting, and that is kind of the point.

When you want to row your own, you buy one of the few remaining manual performance cars that are being produced these days. I promise you this, you can't out shift most of them manually.

If you are not even able to drive stick, you probably are not the best judge of downshifting anything

[Covfefe]

Originally Posted by nvmaddog

Most non high end performance auto's are not great at manual shifting, and that is kind of the point.

When you want to row your own, you buy one of the few remaining manual performance cars that are being produced these days. I promise you this, you can't out shift most of them manually.

If you are not even able to drive stick, you probably are not the best judge of downshifting anything

Well, I think my blind chihuahua could find third gear from sixth faster than the 8at could do the same from eighth. It was so unsatisfying, and frankly annoying, to get the eight speed to downshift.

You chuckle, but I've just never had the opportunity to drive a manual. My family is small, and nobody has one. It's something I'd like to learn.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by RvR

I read somewhere, likely in a post here, that the F22 manual take rate runs 5%. The highest manual take rates, AFAIK, are for the VW GTI and Golf R, they run around 45% manuals. Heck, even Porsche discontinued manuals in the GT3 until enough U.S. buyers fussed, that they brought it back, and even created a Touring model that comes only with a manual.

Definitely not disagreeing with the larger point you're making, but as a fun anecdote there actually is a car that has a manual take rate of over 50 percent in the U.S.

....and surprise! It's a (version of the) 2-series!

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...ssionsfor-now/

Originally Posted by Covfefe

Well, I think my blind chihuahua could find third gear from sixth faster than the 8at could do the same from eighth. It was so unsatisfying, and frankly annoying, to get the eight speed to downshift.

You chuckle, but I've just never had the opportunity to drive a manual. My family is small, and nobody has one. It's something I'd like to learn.

I'll just say as someone who has been driving manuals my whole life that the 2-series is by far the easiest manual transmission to operate of any car i've ever driven. The car has an anti-stall feature that makes pulling away 50 percent easier (you don't have to match the clutch and the gas, just slowly let out the clutch without any gas and the car will add the perfect amount of throttle for you) and it has a rev matching feature for downshifts.

Classically, getting away from a stop and downshifting are really the only two things that people struggle with when it comes to driving around in a manual. There are obviously advanced techniques that are harder, but for normal driving, those are the only two that ever give people trouble, and they've both been addressed in the 2-series.

[morphomeman]

I learned to drive stick on the family tractor as soon as I could reach the pedals.
Never have I ever had occasion to downshift more than two gears, in any vehicle. Under what circumstances would one want to do that?
Admittedly, the original 1953 Farmall tractor had only four gears and the only downshift permitted without coming to a full stop was 4-3.

[Covfefe]

Originally Posted by morphomeman

I learned to drive stick on the family tractor as soon as I could reach the pedals.
Never have I ever had occasion to downshift more than two gears, in any vehicle. Under what circumstances would one want to do that?
Admittedly, the original 1953 Farmall tractor had only four gears and the only downshift permitted without coming to a full stop was 4-3.

Well, for one, your 8AT certainly has dropped more than 2 gears at one time before. If you are only talking about manuals, I don't see why a 6 -> 3 shift at 60mph would be unreasonable. Revs would still be under 5k in a 6mt at 60mph in 3rd.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

Well, for one, your 8AT certainly has dropped more than 2 gears at one time before. If you are only talking about manuals, I don't see why a 6 -> 3 shift at 60mph would be unreasonable. Revs would still be under 5k in a 6mt at 60mph in 3rd.

2nd on the 6MT is good to 72mph. I've gone from 6th to 2nd on occasions assuming the MPH was below 55mph. You can go from 6th to 2nd at 60mph, but you'll need to shift in the blink of an eye.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Moflow

I'll just say as someone who has been driving manuals my whole life that the 2-series is by far the easiest manual transmission to operate of any car i've ever driven. The car has an anti-stall feature that makes pulling away 50 percent easier (you don't have to match the clutch and the gas, just slowly let out the clutch without any gas and the car will add the perfect amount of throttle for you) and it has a rev matching feature for downshifts.

I absolutely hate the anti-stall feature getting in the way of me leaving a light with the acceleration that matches traffic (i.e., automatic cars). Sure, you can release the clutch slowly and the car will crawl away, but it's not useful for daily driving as you'd be leaving the line slower than a hyper-miler in a Prius and would be getting honked at.

This anti-stall feature, compounded with the clutch-delay valve (CDV), a self-adjusting clutch, a dual mass flywheel, and a clutch pedal nill of feel and full excessive travel makes my M235 without a doubt the hardest manual transmission to drive smoothly that I've owned in over 30 years of driving. Leaving the line smoothly in 1st and executing a smooth 1-2 shift take a ton of concentration and I still can make it not smooth 30% of the time. I believe the CDV is the primary culprit and I plan to get rid of it in the spring. When driven in anger, it's a pretty good setup. I still wouldn't trade it for the 8AT, which was exceptional when I test drove one.