[RyanGphoto]

I'm trying to redo the stock Hifi stereo in my 2016 F23. The one shop is trying to sell me on an amp with DSP Built-in but it's $1300 as opposed to the JL 600, 6 channel amp that doesn't have DSP for $700. I'm wondering if I can get away with not having DSP considering I just really want the music to be louder and a little more clear . Is that something that I absolutely need, DSP?

It's pretty much me in the car and occasionally the wife (who could care less about the audio)

Thoughts?

[jv92red]

No, you do not "need" DSP integrated into an amp. I question a shop that isn't listening to the needs and budget of a customer and says you "need" a DSP. DSP is nice to have integrated into an amp but you can certainly get a standalone DSP later and integrate it along side a JL600 amp as a separate amp DSP solution when you decide to take your system to the next step.

In a nutshell, DSP allows you to EQ, set crossover points and slopes, time alignment, some also do proper center channel management (I'm sure I'm forgetting some other features too) and all this can be tuned from a laptop or in some cases from a phone/app.

To just get better sound on a budget the JL600 amp is a great solution. Just remember you'll need a wiring harness to bypass the factory amp and to give you the ouputs/inputs you'll need to feed the JL600 to integrate it into the factory head unit.

[cooolone2]

Originally Posted by jv92red

In a nutshell, DSP allows you to EQ, set crossover points and slopes, time alignment, some also do proper center channel management (I'm sure I'm forgetting some other features too) and all this can be tuned from a laptop or in some cases from a phone/app.

All that amazingly available in aftermarket head units... Especially some audiophile ones. Sinful omissions from the parent company accepting just ok sounds in a so called "experience"... Then allow integrated wiring and set up that pretty much prohibits simple aftermarket upgrades!

Simple hack, use BT and connect your phone using Spotify or other apps. Most newer phones allow DSP of BT connection for headphones but will be sent to your head unit achieving the same result.

[RyanGphoto]

I guess what I meant was. Do you think dsp and eq'ing the car is worth the extra cost? Does it provide a significant improvement over just putting in an amp and speakers? It is roughly another $1,000.00 for the dsp ability and tuning of it....

Thoughts?

Ryan G

[cooolone2]

It depends what your tolerance is...

You EARS and how sensitive you are to trash sound and or fidelity...

Then the "value" of adding DSP or more to your audio system will reveal itself. The HK system is garbage, and for what it cost to install I could've built a system 3x better (at least) lol.

But it's tolerable for the short drives... And as I joyed, when buckled in for a tour, I get Spotify going and use my phone's DSP and EQ to adjust things a bit. Isn't perfect, but works for the time being!

For me, I wouldn't worry much about the $ because it seems you're looking for better sound, and being it's a BMW, that means it'll cost you, lol

Good Luck

[jv92red]

Originally Posted by RyanGphoto

I guess what I meant was. Do you think dsp and eq'ing the car is worth the extra cost? Does it provide a significant improvement over just putting in an amp and speakers? It is roughly another $1,000.00 for the dsp ability and tuning of it....

Thoughts?

Ryan G

As cooolone2 mentioned only you can answer that question. But to help you, you are a little off in what it costs and you may or may not know what you're in for if you never tuned with a DSP.

First off, when you say DSP = $1,000 are you referring to the amp/DSP combos that are specially made for BMW's that plug and play like the MATCH UP 7BMW, or Bimmertech, or Bavsound amp/DSP units? If you already invested in a separate replacement amp then you don't need one of these combo DSP/Amp solutions that run $1K+. If you already replaced the speakers and the amp and still want more from the sound then a separate DSP may(*) be the answer but since you have the amp already you can now do a stand-alone DSP that costs MUCH less than $1K and get you what your looking for. Here are a few solutions off the top of my head that will work (depending on the number of channels you need - that's up to you and your system design)

Here is just a small sample of 8-channel DSP units priced from least to most:
Dayton Audio DSP-40 (8 channel, $164)
Mini-DSP (8 channel, $350)
JL Audio TWK-88 (8 channel, $550)
Audiotec Fischer Helix DSP (8 channel ~$750 (dealer-only item but they can be found new on eBay from overseas sellers. This unit runs the same software the all-in-one BMW MATCH UP 7BMW unit runs as they are both made by Audiotec Fischer

Again, this is just a small selection of what you can get but with these you can have a very capable unit for way less than 1K. The differences are mainly in the software and how they process which you'll need to research for yourself. I believe some of these you can download their software and run them on your PC/phone and see how you like the interface before you buy them. You'll really need to dive in and do your research if you're going down this route to make sure you don't buy based on price and then regret not getting a different unit later on. There is a ton to learn if you're going to tune your system yourself and not pay an audio shop to tune it. Although I've seen there are people on Facebook groups that do offer tuning services for a fee.

Go here and poke around some to get an idea of what you'll need to arm yourself with if you'll be tuning yourself:
https://www.audiofrog.com/audiofrog-tech-blog/

If all this sounds too daunting and you're ok with your system as it is and just using your treble and bass adjustments on the factory head unit then don't bother with a DSP. There is nothing wrong with that if it sounds good to you. But if it doesn't and you want more then the next logical step after replacing speakers and the amp is a DSP.

(* from above) Do keep in mind there is only so much a DSP can do. You can't change the interior of your car meaning where speakers are placed, where seats are, angle of your windshield, etc. At the end of the day it's a car, not a sound studio.

[RyanGphoto]

I guess I need To clarify. I do not have any amp nor any speakers other than the Hifi (676) stereo in the car currently. I'm looking to upgrade the system to make it louder and more clear. If that means speakers or amp or subwoofers or anything else that will get me better sound.

Initial the car stereo place wanted to sell me an amp with DSP Built-in (arc audio d6.1200) and that's why I was asking if I indeed needed DSP or not.

I was wondering If I could get away with an amp that didn't have it and save me the money. The amp with DSP is an additional $400 and tuning the DSP is an additional $500 according to the shop to tune the car..so $900 additional for DSP.

Is it worth it?

To be fair. I am starting to slowly lose my hearing and I'm Definitely NOT an audiophile and listen to fm radio 99% of the time.

[jv92red]

Ok - that clears things up. Just FM radio listening and more power then get an amp and you should be happy with that I would say. No need for a DSP, in your case that's overkill. And no need to replace your speakers at this point either since the amp is the main weak link of our audio system, HK or not.

If you feel after you replace the amp the audio still isn't up to where you want it to be then replacing just the front door speakers to co-axial aftermarket speakers might just be what you would be looking for if the amp didn't 100% get you what you want.

And lastly, if you haven't already, do the most important free audio mod to these cars - pop off the center dash grill and unplug the 4" center channel speaker. You'll be amazed at how the stereo imaging will improve by not having that.

And BTW I'm 51 years old and I can say my hearing wasn't what it once was either. But I can still hear the difference between good home speakers and ok home speakers, or a 128K bitrate MP3 compared to a lossless audio file with my Sennheiser headphones and I don't consider myself an audiophile either. Just want things to sound good to my ears too.

[RyanGphoto]

Really appreciate the info. I'm Def disconnecting the center soon. I might just do the match up7 amp since it's plug and play and don't need to pay a shop for the install and amp kit then.

Might be easier.

Thanks for the input.

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by RyanGphoto

Really appreciate the info. I'm Def disconnecting the center soon. I might just do the match up7 amp since it's plug and play and don't need to pay a shop for the install and amp kit then.

Might be easier.

Thanks for the input.

I have the MATCH amp and I can say it definitely makes a difference. The amp is unbelievably tune-able using the free AT software on a laptop.

[marcthedark]

I have a 6 channel MATCH from AudioTech Fisher (the company that BavSount/Bimmertech uses for their rebranding) with the harness out of my X1 what I returned after the lease ended. Gathering dust now for a couple of years in my garage. PM me if you are interested.

The amp/dsp made a huge difference. Had my X1 amp first and speaker later and my 240 speaker first amp later > for my ears the amp should be first.

And $500 to tune the car? Rip-Off

Got mine installed in NJ and the install plus tuning was way less. You can tune yourself if you want.

[RyanGphoto]

I wanna go to that shop. Jeez. The one i went to want $500 to tune it alone. Damn. Thats why i asked if i even needed an amp with dsp.

I will try and PM now. Where are you located? Would love to talk about the amp.

Thanks
Ryan.

[RyanGphoto]

Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini

I have the MATCH amp and I can say it definitely makes a difference. The amp is unbelievably tune-able using the free AT software on a laptop.

Was it easy to install? Did you do it yourself?

Thanks
Ryan

[Kevin @ Integral Audio]

If your goal really is simply "louder and a little more clear" as you say, you do not need DSP. Buy our Soundstage Elements and a moderately decent compact 4 ch amp and a harness from TechnicPNP and be done for under $1k. Add our underseat woofers if want later (or because you got a little spicy and cooked the OEM ones).

DSP is the difference between these two screenshots. The first one is no DSP, it's what's possible with just a carefully designed 2nd order passive crossover in our Soundstage Elements. The other is our SoundstageDSP.

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by RyanGphoto

Was it easy to install? Did you do it yourself?

Thanks
Ryan

It's plug and play. Simple install. Down load the free tuning software and read up on how to use it.