[dradernh]

Originally Posted by B58togo

Not in the same league. Need to be able to run at least 12's straight off the showroom floor.

Exactly. Those cars are about running off and leaving 2 Series cars in tight corners, not about straight-line performance.

[B58togo]

I'd take a Miata over either of them anyway.

[IndyRed128i]

Only car that really comes close now is the new generation Supra.

[stein_325i]

Supra isn't a good DD, the wind buffeting alone is a deal breaker, its horrendous. Also, no manual and its not a real Supra, so I have no interest.

Cayman - Fantastic car, and if a 981, the flat-six sings, the gearbox is precise (both manual and pdk) and handling is excellent, with practicality being surprising (hatchback and frunk), this is all of course as long as you have the money to take care of it.

Mustang/Camaro - I absolutely adore the GT350, fantastic car, and an incredible performer. I have also heard great things about the new Camaro, GM chassis tuning is very good. Not as good interior quality as the Germans but the driving experience makes up for it.

WRX/STI - End of the generation, rev-hang, and boy racer looks.

Miata - Excellent car, and looks like you already know that based on your garage list

The 2er pretty much is in its own little niche, direct competitors are short due to the smaller wheelbase/length and RWD architecture. While there are many cars around that price they will be very different in character, layout and handling.

[Oldbay]

The reason I bought an M240 is because (1) manual transmission, (2) convertible, and (3) I could put a spare in the trunk for long adventures.

I liked the Miata - but space and convenience was an issue. That would be an issue for drives with my wife to the beach. The Miata was my #2 choice. It's a 1 person car. Most middle aged women aren't going to want to climb in and out of that.

I liked the Mustang - but the GT Convertible is just "cheap" horsepower. It's not "that" good of a car for $57,000. GT350 yes. GT no. I just couldn't see dropping that kind of coin on a Mustang, sorry. I'm sure it's good. Many people like them. It just wasn't for me at that price point.

The Camaro SS Convertible had pretty much ZERO trunk with the roof down. High door sills made you feel like you were down in a bath tub. Literally, zero trunk. That would be an issue for drives with my wife to the beach.

Porsche - liked them well enough, but liked the M240 better. I felt like I got a little more car for the money and avoided the Porsche-tax. One equipped the way I would want it would be significantly more than $60K.

[Oldbay]

One of the other reasons I avoided the Mustang, is because for some reason every crash I see here in Maryland these days involves a Mustang. There seems to be a high number of them losing the back-end and ending up off the road.

A coincidence? Ummm, probably not. There seems to be something up with the overall stability of those cars relative to the HP output. I can't say for sure why so many accidents seem to involve Mustangs other than young guys love them, but there seems to be more issues now than I remember when I had my Mustang Cobra in the 90s. I don't remember people spinning off the road like they do today. I presume it's because there's close to 180+ more HP in the new cars than my old 305 HP 96 Cobra. Now adays they are putting out close to 460-500 HP in stock GT form.

[oooseun]

Originally Posted by Oldbay

One of the other reasons I avoided the Mustang, is because for some reason every crash I see here in Maryland these days involves a Mustang. There seems to be a high number of them losing the back-end and ending up off the road.

A coincidence? Ummm, probably not. There seems to be something up with the overall stability of those cars relative to the HP output. I can't say for sure why so many accidents seem to involve Mustangs other than young guys love them, but there seems to be more issues now than I remember when I had my Mustang Cobra in the 90s. I don't remember people spinning off the road like they do today. I presume it's because there's close to 180+ more HP in the new cars than my old 305 HP 96 Cobra. Now adays they are putting out close to 460-500 HP in stock GT form.

The GT comes with 235 rears. That'll do it

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by Oldbay

One of the other reasons I avoided the Mustang, is because for some reason every crash I see here in Maryland these days involves a Mustang. There seems to be a high number of them losing the back-end and ending up off the road.

A coincidence? Ummm, probably not. There seems to be something up with the overall stability of those cars relative to the HP output. I can't say for sure why so many accidents seem to involve Mustangs other than young guys love them, but there seems to be more issues now than I remember when I had my Mustang Cobra in the 90s. I don't remember people spinning off the road like they do today. I presume it's because there's close to 180+ more HP in the new cars than my old 305 HP 96 Cobra. Now adays they are putting out close to 460-500 HP in stock GT form.

A former 2018 Mustang owner and a super duper smart car nerd friend of mine explained the reasoning for this to me about a year ago.

The current generation mustang has almost no caster angle to the front suspension. One of the things caster provides, is a centering force on the steering wheel particularly during oversteer. For those who are not into drifting or who don't have a ton of experience with oversteer, this means that when the car starts to slide, you can almost 'throw' the steering wheel in the opposite direction and the wheel will 'feel' the correct countersteer angle that's needed (see video, 1:05 or so.)

The Mustang does not do this. The correct countersteer angle must be found manually by the driver, which is obviously harder to do and will generally result in less smoothness, along with a more abrupt transition when gripping up from a slide. Gripping up suddenly at the wrong time is what leads to tank slappers/overcorrecting, which is likely how most of those mustangs are getting crashed.

[Lucky13]

This may be the last Camaro, sales have dropped from 77,000 in 2015 to 48,000 in 2019. Ytd only 13,000 thru June. Mustang is way down as well, 122,000 to 72,000 in the same period but 33,000 ytd. Either Car and Driver or Motor Trend said there isn’t a new Camaro even in developement.

[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

This may be the last Camaro, sales have dropped from 77,000 in 2015 to 48,000 in 2019. Ytd only 13,000 thru June. Mustang is way down as well, 122,000 to 72,000 in the same period but 33,000 ytd. Either Car and Driver or Motor Trend said there isn't a new Camaro even in developement.

Good. They are hideous.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Moflow

A former 2018 Mustang owner and a super duper smart car nerd friend of mine explained the reasoning for this to me about a year ago.

The current generation mustang has almost no caster angle to the front suspension. One of the things caster provides, is a centering force on the steering wheel particularly during oversteer. For those who are not into drifting or who don't have a ton of experience with oversteer, this means that when the car starts to slide, you can almost 'throw' the steering wheel in the opposite direction and the wheel will 'feel' the correct countersteer angle that's needed (see video, 1:05 or so.)

The Mustang does not do this. The correct countersteer angle must be found manually by the driver, which is obviously harder to do and will generally result in less smoothness, along with a more abrupt transition when gripping up from a slide. Gripping up suddenly at the wrong time is what leads to tank slappers/overcorrecting, which is likely how most of those mustangs are getting crashed.

Not sure why he thinks the caster is low on the 6th gen Mustang (2015 on), it is close to 7 degrees, depending on the model (slightly under 7 degrees for the GT350 and over for the GT): https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/att...cs-pdf.114282/

Most BMWs run between 6 and 7 degrees of caster.

[Lucky13]

Originally Posted by BimBimM2

Good. They are hideous.

Truly one of the ugliest cars on the road, a total fail from a looks comparison with the Mustang. Growing up in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s I never was crazy for gen 1 Camaro, much preferred a Nova or Chevelle. I actually liked the 2nd generation Camaro more than the 1st but the current one looks like Herman Munster should be driving it.

[stein_325i]

Its actually a shame that the Camaro is so cheap feeling and looking because the chassis on that car is simply fantastic, steering feel is excellent, the motors are great and handling is excellent. A lot to love but the design and creature comforts/everyday functions of that car ruin it for a lot of people.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Not sure why he thinks the caster is low on the 6th gen Mustang (2015 on), it is close to 7 degrees, depending on the model (slightly under 7 degrees for the GT350 and over for the GT): https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/att...cs-pdf.114282/

Most BMWs run between 6 and 7 degrees of caster.

Lol, well i guess he was wrong. There goes that theory!

[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Truly one of the ugliest cars on the road, a total fail from a looks comparison with the Mustang. Growing up in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s I never was crazy for gen 1 Camaro, much preferred a Nova or Chevelle. I actually liked the 2nd generation Camaro more than the 1st but the current one looks like Herman Munster should be driving it.

Haha!!! "Herman Munster"

I think it was the first Transformers movie that screwed the Camaro. There was some talk, and I don't know how valid, that inspiration for the design came from the Transformers aesthetic.

Don't quote me on on this

Nonetheless, the car is terrible looking. However jstein55 is absolutely correct that the platform is lovely! It is!

I often thought of buying one and putting a new body on it haha

[Hapbob]

Yep I sold my m235 and was going to get a newer different car. The more I looked the more I kept coming back to the 2 series. I ended up with a newer same car with the m240. I went with the convertible and that now has become my different car. Very nice car. I don’t see any other car out there for the money that competes with the 2 series cars.
Hap

[morphomeman]

My 235 is five years old and paid for. I keep BMWs for a long time when I like them, so no real desire to get a new one.
For fun, though, I built a 2021 on the website. It was pretty much identical to what I have, except for the interior trim, where the carbon fiber looks nice.
But it turns out that, at least on the build site, you can't get the garage door opener without the navigation. I HATE BUILT-IN NAV and I hate garage door openers hanging from the visor almost as much. So, I guess I don't need a new car.
Honestly, there is nothing else out there that appeals to me. There is plenty of competition for our X3. My choice there would be a loaded Mazda 5-series. But the X3 is my wife's and she would not change it for the world, except maybe for a new X3, but that is almost paid for too.